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Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 06 May 2011 10:26 am

Singapore elections are the front page story in today's International Herald Tribune.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 06 May 2011 10:37 am

x9200 wrote:
nakatago wrote: Sadly, even if the opposition wins, a lot of pampered, spoiled brats would expect miracles

If they win nothing will change or everything will be turned to chaos (as compared to what is now) resulting in losing the established country credibility and only then Singaporeans will have a true reason to complain. It is always easy to ride on populistic sentiments but this finishes soon after the real job starts unless this job was only about filling up some pockets or satisfying someone's hunger for power.


That's the problem with an opposition that was never allowed to mature. They never learned how to do things so even if they're 100% sincere, a lack of ability would seriously undermine any victory.

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Postby Addadude » Fri, 06 May 2011 12:04 pm

This is why the opposition has taken great pains to assure Singaporeans about the excellence of Singapore's civil service. And in truth, every minister relies heavily on the advice of these people who work full time in the ministry. Otherwise, for example, how can a minister whose previous responsibility was for MICA suddenly be able to handle a portfolio change to NEA? Obviously he or she will rely on the civil servants in the new ministry to update him and make the transition as smooth as possible.

In terms of the obvious sensitivity to 'foreign talents', I think in many ways it is perfectly understandable. When as much as 33% of the total workforce are foreigners, you've got to expect some resentment. I can only imagine the response if 33% of the workforce in Ireland were foreigners... and I can't imagine US citizens would be happy with such an arrangement either.
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Postby nakatago » Fri, 06 May 2011 12:21 pm

Addadude wrote:In terms of the obvious sensitivity to 'foreign talents', I think in many ways it is perfectly understandable. When as much as 33% of the total workforce are foreigners, you've got to expect some resentment. I can only imagine the response if 33% of the workforce in Ireland were foreigners... and I can't imagine US citizens would be happy with such an arrangement either.


It is indeed understandable. Only, it's funny (but not ha-ha funny) when the obvious immigrants (or descendants thereof) complain. Cough-US-Australia-cough.

However, I perfectly understand complaining about recent immigrants who have a sense of entitlement from a land they'd almost assuredly leave in the immediate future.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 06 May 2011 1:02 pm

@Addadude, the sentiments are perfectly understandable and the civil servants will be able to have the administrative infrastructure up and running but the question is what would the opposition do to make the difference? For an average Joe this difference is about money not some freedom concepts.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 06 May 2011 1:31 pm

And that is the scary part x9200! If the opposition some how manages to gain control of the government (fluke but it can certainly happen) and they abolish the powers of the president and get their hands unfettered on the reserves, Singapore might die at the next major recession (and they are coming for sure). It's only because of extremely prudent management of the reserves that Singapore has virtually waltzed through the last 4 recessions unscathed. I dread to think what would happen here should that happen. I'd rather deal with the devil I know then the evil I don't.

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Postby ev-disinfection » Fri, 06 May 2011 2:10 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:And that is the scary part x9200! If the opposition some how manages to gain control of the government (fluke but it can certainly happen) and they abolish the powers of the president and get their hands unfettered on the reserves, Singapore might die at the next major recession (and they are coming for sure). It's only because of extremely prudent management of the reserves that Singapore has virtually waltzed through the last 4 recessions unscathed. I dread to think what would happen here should that happen. I'd rather deal with the devil I know then the evil I don't.


++++++ 10000.

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Postby BillyB » Fri, 06 May 2011 2:13 pm

x9200 wrote:@Addadude, the sentiments are perfectly understandable and the civil servants will be able to have the administrative infrastructure up and running but the question is what would the opposition do to make the difference? For an average Joe this difference is about money not some freedom concepts.


Thats the issue. How many people are voting because they buy into and understand the opposition policies if you look beyond the messages they are pushing that the locals want to hear? Or are they simply voting for change after a decades of the same?

Change isn't always good. Plus there is only limited bandwidth which a new government can actually work with. Its like a balancing act - take away resources from one part of your portfolio and allocate them elsewhere and you risk tipping the applecart. Singapore is run very well from a economic perspective. What miracles are the opposition going to perform to keep things prosperous and satisfy the cynics? What exactly are they going to implement? Kick all the foreigners out overnight? Tax us at a higher rate? Ban us from public transport? Restrict trade with foreign firms? Block all MNC's from being based in SG?

A service sector driven Country relies heavily on foreign trade inflows and outflows for economic growth. Growth brings prosperity and allows the people to enjoy the benefits of increased government spending. Why would you want to bite the hand that feeds you?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 06 May 2011 2:32 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:I really don't need to look at the data (singstat and HDB data can say the same or 100% opposite on the same site depending on how the data is pulled. I live in Aljunied AND I live across the street from Hougang.

I also read the first link several days ago, I notice that they are not using apples to compare apples except to compare bedroom sizes. They are not using same age flats or same sq/m flats, so to me, using a single year that has been cherrypicked for the article to make his point, I discount the effort. Will look at the second link later in the morning......

Isn't disregarding the data considered "making baseless claims"? :wink:

The point is that citizens are now checking the facts for themselves, using whatever information is publicly available. I for one haven't seen even one datum from the PAP or HDB to make good their claims, when they have easy access to all the data.

The second link is more rigorous than the first, with the author choosing same sized and aged HDB flats practically across the street from each other, to try to isolate the factor of PAP vs opposition.


Further to my comment that they needed to not cherry-pick but to use similary e.g., apples & apples.

http://www.todayonline.com/SingaporeVot ... d-Aljunied

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Postby Addadude » Fri, 06 May 2011 2:44 pm

BillyB, if you read or listen to what the opposition parties are saying, they are not talking about radical changes. They don't necessarily want to fix what ain't broken.
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Postby ksl » Fri, 06 May 2011 2:49 pm

If PAP was ever to loose, their grip on power, it would be a disaster and back to the riots of the 60's.

I would think after a couple of months. As long as LKY is around, and there is money in the pot, it should work. though it's all about timing too I guess.

You will see a larger increas in PAP votes this year, guaranteed! :lol:
Last edited by ksl on Fri, 06 May 2011 3:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby BillyB » Fri, 06 May 2011 3:11 pm

Addadude wrote:BillyB, if you read or listen to what the opposition parties are saying, they are not talking about radical changes. They don't necessarily want to fix what ain't broken.


I read the policy summaries and it looks like the majority of the opposition are placing emphasis on putting Singaporeans first when it comes to labour. Not that I disagree if they add more benefit. I'm from the U.K where the locals are made to feel like the minority because of equal opportunities and political correctness that has gone haywire.

My point was what value are they really going to give by displacing a government who may not tick everyones box, but looks to have done a pretty good job of managing a Country and nurturing it to be where Singapore is today. Great standard of living, desirable, good financial centre, strong economic fundamentals etc. The problem with people these days is they are too quick to show their disloyalty and jump ship at the first opportunity without really having a clue about what they are buying into. They are like little sheep following a blind herder. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 06 May 2011 3:57 pm

value are they really going to give by displacing a government
You will have to go into the history books to understand what is going on, and how did LKY clean up the triads here from the early 60's and 70's.

There is much more to this than just politics too, there is outside influence from various interested parties, that must be held at bay. If PAP fails Singapore collapses! All the oppositions want to do is destabilise the Country for their own greed.

No different than other countries, and Taiwan was a prime example after the KMT lost power. KMT lead the way for 50 years. The opposition do gooder and his family sits in jail after robbing the countries piggy bank.

Talk about brains and he was a lawyer

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 06 May 2011 4:35 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:This year is special, as there are 82 / 87 seats up for offer, so it is possible that the opposition parties together can become the next gahmen.
Share this with your local friends, so that they would think wisely before voting.

http://itcouldneverhappen.wordpress.com


It took me until last night to realise the significance of this '82/87' issue.

I did not realise it means that in SG at elections some PAP seats are simply not contested at all. That is truly shocking! :o

Viva the one party state! :roll:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 06 May 2011 5:05 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Further to my comment that they needed to not cherry-pick but to use similary e.g., apples & apples.

http://www.todayonline.com/SingaporeVot ... d-Aljunied

Your quoted article is referring to some study by two PhD students (Chong Kwek Yen and Giam Xingli) who studied 5-room flats. My two links (by Bernard Leong and Tan Lay Kuan) clearly compared 3- and 4-room flats. So I'm not sure how your link refutes the information provided in my links. Apples and oranges? ;)

Bernard Leong and Tan Lay Kuan compared flats that are practically across the road from each other, ie equal age, equal distance from MRT stations etc. They even provide road names and block numbers so people know exactly what is referred to and can judge for ourselves if it is a fair comparison (Tan Lay Kuan's is, because I know that area well myself). Your article did not provide any details which allow us to judge whether it's a fair comparison.


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