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Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 16 May 2011 6:21 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:They should have announced this during the election campaign for maximum effect...


That might have been tactically wise. But I suspect vanity stood in the way, prior to them witnessing the blunt reality of worst results in 45 years.



I am saddened by the news, it is like a good grandfather and father handing over the family affairs to the elder brother. But it was bound to happen, sooner or later.

It concerns me that it should mean so much to people. Surely they should not have allowed themselves to be built up into such totems? Would it not be healthier for SG if the situation were simply one of 'The king is dead long live the king'?

p.s. Ecu, I'm out of SG right now for a while, and also don't watch the BBC. I know it surprises many SGns, but most people outside of SG have never heard of (or care about) LKY, hence no news until today...




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Postby JayCee » Mon, 16 May 2011 6:24 pm

I think the PM and some of the younger senior ministers have realised that Leeky and SM Goh cost them quite a lot of votes this election and if they'd carried on would probably have cost them a fair few more next time with some of the statements they've been coming out with. Wouldn't be surprised if a quiet word was had by Lee Hsien Loong and they agreed that for the good of the party they would move over (because PAP may be a few things but they're not stupid and realise that if they carry on as normal they won't be in power in 10 years time)

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Postby ecureilx » Mon, 16 May 2011 6:46 pm

JR8 wrote:
p.s. Ecu, I'm out of SG right now for a while, and also don't watch the BBC. I know it surprises many SGns, but most people outside of SG have never heard of (or care about) LKY, hence no news until today...



Apparently, in India, Sri Lanka, and a lot of ASIAN countriees, it was one of the top news .. until the Indian Election overtook.. :D :D

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 16 May 2011 9:31 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:They should have announced this during the election campaign for maximum effect...

I am saddened by the news, it is like a good grandfather and father handing over the family affairs to the elder brother. But it was bound to happen, sooner or later.

Don't think this was the plan before elections. It's surprisingly sudden.

Agree it was a matter of time, and this way is better. Am sad too.


JR8 wrote:That might have been tactically wise. But I suspect vanity stood in the way, prior to them witnessing the blunt reality of worst results in 45 years.

It concerns me that it should mean so much to people. Surely they should not have allowed themselves to be built up into such totems? Would it not be healthier for SG if the situation were simply one of 'The king is dead long live the king'?

p.s. Ecu, I'm out of SG right now for a while, and also don't watch the BBC. I know it surprises many SGns, but most people outside of SG have never heard of (or care about) LKY, hence no news until today...

LKY has his faults but vanity is not one of them. Singapore was his life - everything he did, he did because he believed it best for the country. This last election does not undo all that he did for so long. And this is why his sacrifice now means a lot, and why he has my gratitude and respect.

ps: Many people outside SG have never heard of (or care about) Singapore. Many who have, think it is somewhere in China. But then, other people's stupidity and ignorance is not our problem :P

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 16 May 2011 11:24 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:But then, other people's stupidity and ignorance is not our problem :P


It's tempting, but I'm feeling magnanimous tonight.....

:lol:

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 16 May 2011 11:32 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:LKY has his faults but vanity is not one of them.

<Splutter, you're kidding right? Every volume of his writings pictures him on all three sides of the dust-cover>


Singapore was his life - everything he did, he did because he believed it best for the country.

'He was self-less, the billions and 50 years of complete power, now passed to his son, were just coincidental to that'.

But I must button my lip, I feel we are entering a 'Do not mock the dead' kind of vibe... strange. Like I suggested, maybe he shouldn't have left it to get to this stage of trauma-inducement...


This last election does not undo all that he did for so long. And this is why his sacrifice now means a lot, and why he has my gratitude and respect.

No, of course it doesn't, it was just an election.

ps: Many people outside SG have never heard of (or care about) Singapore. Many who have, think it is somewhere in China. But then, other people's stupidity and ignorance is not our problem :P

The girls in the Ralph Lauren shop on Batam were convinced that their shirts with English flags... well, England is a part of America right? lol

Other people's 'stupidity and ignorance' may not be SGs problem, but it may explain why most of the world hasn't heard of him or published this news item which was the un-personalised point being made.



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Postby nakatago » Mon, 16 May 2011 11:34 pm

Sometimes, it takes a fresh set of eyes to see something.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 16 May 2011 11:47 pm

JR8 wrote:<Splutter, you're kidding right? Every volume of his writings pictures him on all three sides of the dust-cover>

Ah, you mean ego. Use the right English word, you Englishman!

JR8 wrote:The girls in the Ralph Lauren shop on Batam were convinced that their shirts with English flags... well, England is a part of America right? lol

Well they do have New England. Confused me too!

JR8 wrote:Other people's 'stupidity and ignorance' may not be SGs problem, but it may explain why most of the world hasn't heard of him or published this news item which was the un-personalised point being made.

Somebody is soooooo serious tonight....

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 16 May 2011 11:59 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:Ah, you mean ego. Use the right English word, you Englishman!
Ego vs vanity, to be honest I don't think I get the nuance. (If you'd care to opine that would be cool and interesting).


Well they do have New England. Confused me too!
Only because they're a colony of ours, sorry I mean were :)

Somebody is soooooo serious tonight....


Yah is. Just a little taken aback by the happy to vote them out last week, now all misty eyed and they could do no wrong, ever.
[/color]

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 17 May 2011 12:25 am

JR8 wrote:Ego vs vanity, to be honest I don't think I get the nuance. (If you'd care to opine that would be cool and interesting).

Vanity = excessive concern about one's appearance
Ego = sense of self-importance

JR8 wrote:Yah is. Just a little taken aback by the happy to vote them out last week, now all misty eyed and they could do no wrong, ever.

First of all, I did not want to vote 'them' (by which you meant the PAP) out and said very clearly that I just want them to have a smaller majority. Secondly I did not say 'they' (by which you meant LKY) could do no wrong, merely that he did a lot of good as well. Kind of hard to have a sensible discussion when you confuse the entities and go all hyperbolic on me.

Also, my position is not black-and-white, all-or-nothing, for-or-against. Unlike some who might vote blindly along party lines, there are others who try to take various factors into account, including both the candidate and the party. If LKY had been the candidate in my constituency, I would likely have voted for him, as I would have voted for Lee Hsien Loong (I remember making this point earlier) and a few other PAP candidates I hold in high regard. Unlike you, I don't see any contradiction in my position.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 17 May 2011 12:53 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:Vanity = excessive concern about one's appearance
Ego = sense of self-importance


Thanks! I must say though I feel the line between the two has become a little blurred. At least that is my excuse.


First of all, I did not want to vote 'them' (by which you meant the PAP)

Ooh, the right hook

out and said very clearly that I just want them to have a smaller majority. Secondly I did not say 'they' (by which you meant LKY)

Ooh the left hook :)

could do no wrong, merely that he did a lot of good as well. Kind of hard to have a sensible discussion when you confuse the entities and go all hyperbolic on me.

Er, except I didn't mean you. I meant people in general (here and in real life) who last week were keen to vote Opp who are now kind of in a state of mourning where He is beyond criticism.


Also, my position is not black-and-white, all-or-nothing, for-or-against. Unlike some who might vote blindly along party lines, there are others who try to take various factors into account.

As one might hope an intelligent person would.... so thank heavens for that.



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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 17 May 2011 1:07 am

JR8 wrote:Er, except I didn't mean you. I meant people in general (here and in real life) who last week were keen to vote Opp who are now kind of in a state of mourning where He is beyond criticism.

Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I did wonder why you were being so unfriendly all of a sudden, after all the high fives :)

I think you'll find that a lot of opposition supporters, and perhaps the opposition themselves, may not like LKY personally but accord him due respect for what he has done for Singapore.

Also, there is a time and a season for everything. When someone is arrogant, it is natural to want to take him down a peg. When the same person is going through a difficult time (as letting go of a beloved wife and a self-defining job both within a short period must be) then I believe some compassion is in order.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 17 May 2011 6:11 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I did wonder why you were being so unfriendly all of a sudden, after all the high fives :)

Yep... nothing personal, no offence to be taken. Onwards ho eh what?


I think you'll find that a lot of opposition supporters, and perhaps the opposition themselves, may not like LKY personally but accord him due respect for what he has done for Singapore.

I agree with that, of course, I feel the same. Just, isn't it a bit weird that they both all of a sudden step down. I mean, er, this is not exactly a part of their long term succession planning etc is it, not how it is meant to be? Anyway... it will out in due course I expect.


Also, there is a time and a season for everything. When someone is arrogant, it is natural to want to take him down a peg. When the same person is going through a difficult time (as letting go of a beloved wife and a self-defining job both within a short period must be) then I believe some compassion is in order.

Ok, perhaps best we leave it for another time.... TTFN

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 17 May 2011 8:27 am

JR8 wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I did wonder why you were being so unfriendly all of a sudden, after all the high fives :)

[color=blue]
I agree with that, of course, I feel the same. Just, isn't it a bit weird that they both all of a sudden step down. I mean, er, this is not exactly a part of their long term succession planning etc is it, not how it is meant to be? Anyway... it will out in due course I expect.




JR8 , When push become shove, this is the end result.
No one doubts these two men contributions, but it is becoming a liability to let them stay.
Do you think MM would want to jump off his perch just because of this GE result alone ? The writings are already on the wall..... just to give face as this is a big thing here. His "favourite's son" Mah Bow Tan will be going down this same route. Just watch this space
For SM, well , to be blunt , he has no more bullet in his chamber
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 17 May 2011 8:34 am

ev-disinfection wrote:They should have announced this during the election campaign for maximum effect...


That would be rather stupid. These are the people of long term goals.

Wind In My Hair wrote:Don't think this was the plan before elections. It's surprisingly sudden.

Planned as something likely to happen - probably not. Planned as the right move under such circumstances - likely yes.
With all the good words even the opposition supporters say about LKY I am still surprise how the qualities of this man are underestimated all because of his arrogance and some limitation to the freedom.


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