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Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

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nakatago
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Postby nakatago » Fri, 13 May 2011 8:41 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Manthink wrote:sms, after all these years with PA and you assume these entities are apolitical?

Also, volunteers with the PA generally aren't doing so because of altruism but for the perks. Sorry SMS, but you're not the only one who can be cynical.


It's amazing that such a small country would have 'leaders' who are making more money--waaaaay much more--than the 'leaders' of a country several magnitudes bigger than theirs...

...and still be petty.

Then again, most politicians--in any part of the world--are.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 13 May 2011 9:20 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Manthink wrote:sms, after all these years with PA and you assume these entities are apolitical?

Also, volunteers with the PA generally aren't doing so because of altruism but for the perks. Sorry SMS, but you're not the only one who can be cynical.


I'm an anomaly is it? :-|

[rant]
I didn't join it in order to get my kids into a better school (their already adults). I'm not interested in Upgrading. I really don't care whether or not "I" get lift upgrading (I live on the 2nd floor). Am I looking to become a Citizen here? You already know the answer to that one. Actually, the only thing I get out of it is the same thing that I got out of working through UNHCR for over three years resettling people - Helping others. Of course, I do know it's a vehicle but I think you will find that most are in it for altrustic reasons and not for cynical reasons. What perks? I use up my weekends and evenings at an atrocious rate, spending little time with my wife & family due to functions & meeting to create/plan these same functions. The only perk I get is the satisfaction of helping others (kind of like the same reason I've been here on this forum all these years - helping others)

Anyway, Yes, you are correct, in as much as there ARE those who are in it for only what they can get out of it. Hopefully, they are a minority. Sadly, though, I agree, that most of these people are in positions of office holders within the organization. When I joined over three years ago, the old RC chairman wanted me to take over the post as Auditor. I had to decline as I'm not a Citizen so cannot hold an office.

Am I idealistic? Yes. I like to continue to think that there are other people out there, like me, who do things for personal satisfaction and the desire to make other people's lives more comfortable. Wish there were more of us, but we seem to be a dying breed. Now must pay money to get people to do charitable works (or give ECA points). :(
[/rant]

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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 13 May 2011 10:47 am

[rant]Am I idealistic? Yes. I like to continue to think that there are other people out there, like me, who do things for personal satisfaction and the desire to make other people's lives more comfortable. Wish there were more of us, but we seem to be a dying breed. Now must pay money to get people to do charitable works (or give ECA points). :(
[/rant]


You sort of summed up the reasons why a lot of people join PA, and a lot are not convinced that you have no ulterior motive ..

The places I volunteer I too get the same kind of attacks, when I clearly say that my volunteering for Non-profit organisation is just for that, for my own happiness, and not for any gains, first there is a look of disbelief, then a cynical look and then a comment 'well, we know you are not here to really help people .. tell us the real reason ...'

Sadly, yes, even a lot of new citizens are aggressively involved in PA, and other volunteer programs (to the extent that a lot of Singaporeans step out of the fight - and they are right to do so, in my opinion .. ) to the extent of driving others mad with loud comments when another volunteer can't make time or deliver .. .. and it is funny that the same new citizens never ever lifted even a finger to feed a street child back home, or even bother to vote, or even take part in any community program, and in Singapore, they are totally opposite

Well, to be honest, I admire your patience: in Singapore, most volunteer work becomes serious to the extent that you regret even stepping in- punishments, fines, complaints, loud and embarrassing comments are the norm.

Hence, I too join the ranks of those who question the motive of anybody who joins PA .. :D :D (that was a tongue in cheek comment .. )

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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 13 May 2011 10:54 am


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Post election ..

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 13 May 2011 11:19 am

URL CENSORED DUE TO COPYRIGHT ISSUES


Ooopss...
Last edited by ecureilx on Fri, 13 May 2011 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 13 May 2011 11:42 am

Amazing. It's like altruism is unheard of and is a very alien concept!

(cue stereotypical jokes....go!)

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what ails immigraiton policies ..

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 13 May 2011 11:52 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... oorer.html

How does this fit in with the Singapore score ??

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 13 May 2011 12:37 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I'm an anomaly is it? :-|

Yes you are, dear :console:

I hope you knew that I wasn't accusing you personally of going after the perks, especially since you know that I know that you don't have young school-going children nor do you drive.

The point is that many PA volunteers aren't serving the people, but themselves. They therefore have a vested interest in seeing the PAP re-take Aljunied and may not co-operate fully with the WP MPs. Hence it is natural for the WP to prefer their own people handling the grassroots, to avoid possible sabotage. I agree it's not a pretty situation, but if the PA were truly apolitical and there to serve the people, this problem wouldn't arise.


nakatago wrote:Amazing. It's like altruism is unheard of and is a very alien concept!

Actually I think the concept is so naturally ingrained that most of us can instinctively tell when a person is altruistic or in it for self-interest.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 13 May 2011 1:12 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
nakatago wrote:Amazing. It's like altruism is unheard of and is a very alien concept!

Actually I think the concept is so naturally ingrained that most of us can instinctively tell when a person is altruistic or in it for self-interest.


which makes the recipients of my comment an aberration from the natural order! :twisted:

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Re: what ails immigraiton policies ..

Postby BillyB » Fri, 13 May 2011 1:36 pm

ecureilx wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386537/Mass-immigration-UK-s-poor-poorer.html

How does this fit in with the Singapore score ??


It doesn't at all.

The problem in the U.K is that foreigners know once they are have a foot in the U.K, they are set for an easy life whether they work or not. They are eligible for state support from day 1 and the conversion in purchasing parity of the Pound against the immigrants Country or the dollar equivalent on which they survive, is usually higher.

Therefore, the state houses them - at the tax payers cost. The state gives them weekly money aka unemployment benefit - at the the taxpayers cost. They can claim child allowance and tax credits if they have brought their kids over too - at the taxpayers expense. In fact the more kids they have, the more benefits they receive so why stop at 2 or 3, just keep going until you have a football team and then you can live in a really nice big house in London - at the taxpayers expense.
They can live off this and quite possibly have the luxury of being able to send some money home to support their families or relatives overseas. They also know how to milk the system and work illegally and also claim benefits. And who pays for all of the above - the taxpayer through direct earnings and indirect taxes. Someone has to make up for the shortfall and it hurts the people on lower incomes the most.

There is only so much squeeze you can take from somebody's pension, or tax lower paid workers before the real costs outweigh the cost of living and inflation reduces purchasing power and thus disposable income.

You'll also find the U.K is in a shambolic mess with regard to the state run and also, for that matter, most of the large corp private pension funds and people simply do not have enough drawn income to survive and pay the bills. The government fudge it with all kinds of crap like the 'winter fuel allowance'.

To cut along story short, Gordon Brown while he was chancellor or finance minister as its known overseas, wrecked the U.K economy through mis-management and put us back a generation if not longer in terms of how long it will take to 'really' recover. People are being forced to work longer because the pension pot is running on fumes and it will take sometime to build it back up again. For people at my age, 32, there will be no state pension when I retire despite the fact I have contributed to it for over 10 years.

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Postby teck21 » Fri, 13 May 2011 2:00 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Manthink wrote:sms, after all these years with PA and you assume these entities are apolitical?

Also, volunteers with the PA generally aren't doing so because of altruism but for the perks. Sorry SMS, but you're not the only one who can be cynical.


Opposition it was for me, simply because the membership in the PAP has become increasingly little more than a means to further an individual's own non-political interests.

That such a situation has arisen has much of this has to do with the lack of separation between party and state.

And it is this same lack of separation between party and state that pretty much makes it pointless to ask the opposition how they intend to run this country if they ever took power.

Might as well do away with the elections altogether!

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Postby Manthink » Fri, 13 May 2011 2:23 pm

Guys, before we go down the usual path of cynicism about the current state of humanity, I just like to clarify that I am NOT making a mockery of sms's dedication with the community.

On the contrary, it is precisely folks like sms and (may I add) idealist that enabled civilization to develop and strives to make an imperfect world...errr. "perfect"...

Last fortnight, we observed seemingly docile, compliant, passive & almost inert Singaporeans coming forward. I gathered this might had confused or even gave quite a few FT/FL/PR a little fright.

Is Singapore going the way UK, France and Germany are in recent months on immigrants/multi-racialism and foreigners?

IMO, not at all.

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Re: what ails immigraiton policies ..

Postby Plavt » Fri, 13 May 2011 2:52 pm

BillyB wrote:The problem in the U.K is that foreigners know once they are have a foot in the U.K, they are set for an easy life whether they work or not. They are eligible for state support from day 1 and the conversion in purchasing parity of the Pound against the immigrants Country or the dollar equivalent on which they survive, is usually higher.

Therefore, the state houses them - at the tax payers cost. The state gives them weekly money aka unemployment benefit - at the the taxpayers cost. They can claim child allowance and tax credits if they have brought their kids over too - at the taxpayers expense. In fact the more kids they have, the more benefits they receive so why stop at 2 or 3, just keep going until you have a football team and then you can live in a really nice big house in London - at the taxpayers expense.
They can live off this and quite possibly have the luxury of being able to send some money home to support their families or relatives overseas. They also know how to milk the system and work illegally and also claim benefits. And who pays for all of the above - the taxpayer through direct earnings and indirect taxes. Someone has to make up for the shortfall and it hurts the people on lower incomes the most.

There is only so much squeeze you can take from somebody's pension, or tax lower paid workers before the real costs outweigh the cost of living and inflation reduces purchasing power and thus disposable income.

You'll also find the U.K is in a shambolic mess with regard to the state run and also, for that matter, most of the large corp private pension funds and people simply do not have enough drawn income to survive and pay the bills. The government fudge it with all kinds of crap like the 'winter fuel allowance'.

To cut along story short, Gordon Brown while he was chancellor or finance minister as its known overseas, wrecked the U.K economy through mis-management and put us back a generation if not longer in terms of how long it will take to 'really' recover. People are being forced to work longer because the pension pot is running on fumes and it will take sometime to build it back up again. For people at my age, 32, there will be no state pension when I retire despite the fact I have contributed to it for over 10 years.


Some right-wing thinking largely mis-informed or just biased maybe.

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Re: what ails immigraiton policies ..

Postby BillyB » Fri, 13 May 2011 3:24 pm

Plavt wrote:
BillyB wrote:The problem in the U.K is that foreigners know once they are have a foot in the U.K, they are set for an easy life whether they work or not. They are eligible for state support from day 1 and the conversion in purchasing parity of the Pound against the immigrants Country or the dollar equivalent on which they survive, is usually higher.

Therefore, the state houses them - at the tax payers cost. The state gives them weekly money aka unemployment benefit - at the the taxpayers cost. They can claim child allowance and tax credits if they have brought their kids over too - at the taxpayers expense. In fact the more kids they have, the more benefits they receive so why stop at 2 or 3, just keep going until you have a football team and then you can live in a really nice big house in London - at the taxpayers expense.
They can live off this and quite possibly have the luxury of being able to send some money home to support their families or relatives overseas. They also know how to milk the system and work illegally and also claim benefits. And who pays for all of the above - the taxpayer through direct earnings and indirect taxes. Someone has to make up for the shortfall and it hurts the people on lower incomes the most.

There is only so much squeeze you can take from somebody's pension, or tax lower paid workers before the real costs outweigh the cost of living and inflation reduces purchasing power and thus disposable income.

You'll also find the U.K is in a shambolic mess with regard to the state run and also, for that matter, most of the large corp private pension funds and people simply do not have enough drawn income to survive and pay the bills. The government fudge it with all kinds of crap like the 'winter fuel allowance'.

To cut along story short, Gordon Brown while he was chancellor or finance minister as its known overseas, wrecked the U.K economy through mis-management and put us back a generation if not longer in terms of how long it will take to 'really' recover. People are being forced to work longer because the pension pot is running on fumes and it will take sometime to build it back up again. For people at my age, 32, there will be no state pension when I retire despite the fact I have contributed to it for over 10 years.


Some right-wing thinking largely mis-informed or just biased maybe.


Didn't you know? I'm a right wing fascist who supports the BNP because I dislike cheaters and system abusers and because I think Labour, pre and under, Gordon Brown were, in a nutshell, clueless.

:roll:

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Re: what ails immigraiton policies ..

Postby JR8 » Fri, 13 May 2011 3:59 pm

ecureilx wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386537/Mass-immigration-UK-s-poor-poorer.html
How does this fit in with the Singapore score ??


I don't think you can compare:-

- In the UK existing entirely on benefits is a viable, even desirable, lifestyle choice.
- Under Labour the UK had an open door policy on immigration.

Neither apply to SG by any stroke of the imagination.


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