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Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

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Re: Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

Postby BillyB » Thu, 12 May 2011 3:57 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
BillyB wrote:And the housing market gains are a natural result of

1. a growing economy
2. positive sentiment,
3. increases in foreign workers which has resulted in increased need for rentals meaning yields increase thus attracting more people into housing and buying second places for investment,
4. foreigners wanting something to show for their money and getting frustrated with high rentals compared to their home countries,
5. low interest rates,
6. some speculation and market making.

If there is a bubble, it will unlikely pop, more rather deflate slowly and get pumped back up in the short-term as there aren't masses of debt attached property that would break the market, because a high % are cash transactions, and the Singaporean banks have a far greater understanding of risk and are less greedy than their Western counterparts when it comes to lending.

Finally, a foreign perspective that acknowledges the economic realities and makes sense to me, and admitting for the first time that foreigners do have some impact on housing prices here. I was starting to feel sorry for the PAP, sandwiched between unreasonable Singaporeans who think that kicking foreigners out will solve all problems, and unreasonable foreigners who think that shouting down local greed will solve all problems.

BillyB wrote:But just what do the foreigners do over here that offends the locals so much? Take the manual jobs (that the locals won't take)needed to keep the economy buoyant by working in construction, pay their taxes fully and on time thus contributing economically, immigration is strictly controlled here - you aren't getting all sorts smuggled in on the back of lorries who scrounge off the state and carve out a nice living at the expense of tax payers plus if they were to cause trouble they would be pretty much kicked out straight away as SG has an almost zero tolerance policy. So just what is the issue? Because we use your transport system, buy your food, dare to sit in the same restaurants, date Asian women? I am really struggling to comprehend the argument. I'll save going down the racist and jealousy routes but I am seriously struggling to come up with alternatives.

BillyB, a lot of the resentment shouldn't be taken personally. We're just seeing the uglier side of human nature where it's easier to blame our troubles on others. I don't like this zenophobia, and personally believe that the competition is good for us in the long run.

Having said that, foreigners sometimes make it difficult to love them. I'm one of the more open-minded locals I know, yet being on this forum sometimes makes me wonder why we open our borders and our arms to people who seem to hold Singaporeans in such low regard that 'contempt' is the closest word I can think of to describe this attitude. It's the same "I-know-better-than-you-fools" arrogance that the PAP has displayed that lost them so many votes this time.

Not picking a fight here, but you did ask the question. And I'm not saying all foreigners are like this, just like not all Singaporeans resent foreigners. But there are enough zealots on both sides to make the integration challenging.


Hey, I'm not trying to pick fights here too and I'm not offended easily so it's good to hear your views or those of the locals. Like I said in an earlier post on here - I like your posts and insight as you seem to speak candidly and provide a good insight on the ground and from a local perspective. I just like to be frank and curious at the same time, but if it's misunderstood as anything else, I'll be the first to apologise. I'm certainly not labeling anyone, but I just honestly can't see what is driving half the stuff going on at the moment and causing the wave of hysteria amongst the locals. At lunch today two guys were talking about foreigners driving up property and commodity prices, they seem to home in on me like a magnet or maybe I have selective hearing!!

But I agree in that society will always be a concoction of viewpoints, just that sometimes common sense can be overruled by other motives and thats when distortion starts and can snowball out of control.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 May 2011 4:09 pm

In fact, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be in the PA with the childishness I'm starting to see displayed. Really bummed out after the meeting last night. :(

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 May 2011 4:19 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:In fact, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be in the PA with the childishness I'm starting to see displayed. Really bummed out after the meeting last night. :(


You mentioned the 'PA' before.... but could you explain what it is?

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Postby xtasy010 » Thu, 12 May 2011 5:00 pm


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Re: Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 12 May 2011 5:43 pm

BillyB wrote:At lunch today two guys were talking about foreigners driving up property and commodity prices, they seem to home in on me like a magnet or maybe I have selective hearing!!

Well, I'm not sure about the context but it could be a good sign. Since most people here are non-confrontational and hide their dislikes, it's when they avoid you and talk behind your back that you should worry :)

Reminds me of a recent incident when my friends and I happened to mention 'angmoh' and our friend who was angmoh was with us. In unison, we all turned and gave him the obligatory glare. It was both an acknowledgement that we were being a little rude to talk about angmohs in his presence, and also a sign of affection that we care enough to take his feelings into consideration. His perfectly appropriate response was to roll his eyeballs at us, and we all just laughed and carried on with the conversation.

Thanks for being friendly and not taking offence. If we had more people who listened to each other and accepted alternative viewpoints, we might achieve that elusive utopia - world peace.

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 12 May 2011 5:43 pm


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Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 12 May 2011 5:49 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:In fact, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be in the PA with the childishness I'm starting to see displayed. Really bummed out after the meeting last night. :(

Hey SMS, what do you mean by childishness? Does it have anything to do with the rumoured removal of dustbins in Aljunied?

I'm not sure that we can blame the childishness on the results of the elections. Whatever behaviour now displayed must have been latent all along. It's good that the WP win is forcing this behaviour out in the open. At least everyone can start working on growing up. Much better now than later, I would think, when the stakes might be higher.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 May 2011 6:24 pm

It's the childishness I'm witnessing on behalf of both parties (at least the human interfaces of both) who are all trying to stymie each other instead of the PA/RC/TC's doing what they should be doing - helping the residents, not just jousting with each other trying to score points. At the end of the day, it's the residents (of both sides) that are going to suffer. (Obviously I don't know what happening in the other constituencies, but looking at what is happening in Aljunied already, it's probably only a taste of what it's going to become once they (WP) completely take over the Town Council with their own people. Once that happens, it will be almost impossible to book a void deck for a PA function for the residents. When it does, I'll just hang up my charitable hat, and worry about only my own family instead.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 12 May 2011 7:06 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's the childishness I'm witnessing on behalf of both parties (at least the human interfaces of both) who are all trying to stymie each other instead of the PA/RC/TC's doing what they should be doing - helping the residents, not just jousting with each other trying to score points. At the end of the day, it's the residents (of both sides) that are going to suffer. (Obviously I don't know what happening in the other constituencies, but looking at what is happening in Aljunied already, it's probably only a taste of what it's going to become once they (WP) completely take over the Town Council with their own people. Once that happens, it will be almost impossible to book a void deck for a PA function for the residents. When it does, I'll just hang up my charitable hat, and worry about only my own family instead.

SMS, I was living in Potong Pasir consituency when the PAP lost it to Chiam See Tong in 1984. I know this PAP/PA/RC childishness first-hand. The community centre near us closed within days - that was our first sign of being punished. You're right that its the tax-paying residents who lose out. What you say now therefore doesn't surprise me, and after more than 20 years, it seems nothing has changed despite the recent kick-in-the-backside. How many votes do they need to lose before they grow up?

For those who insist that foreigners aren't contributing to higher prices at all, here's some anecdotal evidence as a reality check:

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/06/22 ... sale-flat/

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 May 2011 7:31 pm

I can't open anything from the Temasek Review and apparently it is closing down in July.

Nothing to do with childish bullying from the PAP of course... :roll:

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 12 May 2011 7:39 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:SMS, I was living in Potong Pasir consituency when the PAP lost it to Chiam See Tong in 1984. I know this PAP/PA/RC childishness first-hand. The community centre near us closed within days - that was our first sign of being punished. You're right that its the tax-paying residents who lose out. What you say now therefore doesn't surprise me, and after more than 20 years, it seems nothing has changed despite the recent kick-in-the-backside. How many votes do they need to lose before they grow up?

Probably none. It is pretty normal for maturing democracies (even in a local sense). I know it also first hand. It may come to this that after some time people will vote for the lesser evil.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 May 2011 10:36 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's the childishness I'm witnessing on behalf of both parties (at least the human interfaces of both) who are all trying to stymie each other instead of the PA/RC/TC's doing what they should be doing - helping the residents, not just jousting with each other trying to score points. At the end of the day, it's the residents (of both sides) that are going to suffer. (Obviously I don't know what happening in the other constituencies, but looking at what is happening in Aljunied already, it's probably only a taste of what it's going to become once they (WP) completely take over the Town Council with their own people. Once that happens, it will be almost impossible to book a void deck for a PA function for the residents. When it does, I'll just hang up my charitable hat, and worry about only my own family instead.

SMS, I was living in Potong Pasir consituency when the PAP lost it to Chiam See Tong in 1984. I know this PAP/PA/RC childishness first-hand. The community centre near us closed within days - that was our first sign of being punished. You're right that its the tax-paying residents who lose out. What you say now therefore doesn't surprise me, and after more than 20 years, it seems nothing has changed despite the recent kick-in-the-backside. How many votes do they need to lose before they grow up?

For those who insist that foreigners aren't contributing to higher prices at all, here's some anecdotal evidence as a reality check:

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/06/22 ... sale-flat/


It's not the community centre that is going to be causing the problems. It's the Town Council after the WP takes it over. If it does like it does in Hougang, it will be impossible for the PA to use any of the outdoor facilities or void decks because the town council will be controlled by the WP. Same thing happens in Hougang even now. Instead they will try to promote their "Citizen Connect" but it's only for WP followers and not the whole community at large. Of course, having said that, our RC chairman being a card carrying PAP member presents another set real problems as well. While I said many time I not really pro PAP, I cannot go with the opposition as I don't see them doing any good for my constituency, nor any other for that matter over the long term. However, my position is that I joined the PA to help my fellow residents. Now it would seem there there is going to be a great divide there as well, and that's depressing because it would seem that BOTH parties are hellbent to drive a wedge between the residents as well.

I got a chuckle out of your link. It would seem that the link you provided was about a Singapore citizen. The fact that he might have been an immigrant, only means he's just like 89% of the population who are either immigrants or the descendents of immigrants. How many Singaporeans own private property and HDB units as well AND rent them out illegally by "keeping one room locked"? He apparently has had good teachers here. Except he apparently doesn't hold out for higher rentals like the majority of citizens here do, thereby jacking up the rental prices for everybody. If that's the case then it contrary to your argument, from what I see. The fact that he paid a high price for the unit tends to support what I claim, that Singaporeans are gouging the foreigners, if they want to buy here. Thanks for the link. :wink:
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Thu, 12 May 2011 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby xtasy010 » Thu, 12 May 2011 10:45 pm

Hey SMS, what do you mean by childishness? Does it have anything to do with the rumoured removal of dustbins in Aljunied?


The only dustbin I saw disappear was a tiny dustbin which was placed in the elevator just before the election. After the election it was gone, I thought it's because my block was transfered to AMK and the dustbins belonged to Aljunied, but then why place them there for only a few days. :?

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Postby Manthink » Fri, 13 May 2011 1:09 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's the childishness I'm witnessing on behalf of both parties (at least the human interfaces of both) who are all trying to stymie each other instead of the PA/RC/TC's doing what they should be doing - helping the residents, not just jousting with each other trying to score points. At the end of the day, it's the residents (of both sides) that are going to suffer. (Obviously I don't know what happening in the other constituencies, but looking at what is happening in Aljunied already, it's probably only a taste of what it's going to become once they (WP) completely take over the Town Council with their own people. Once that happens, it will be almost impossible to book a void deck for a PA function for the residents. When it does, I'll just hang up my charitable hat, and worry about only my own family instead.


sms, after all these years with PA and you assume these entities are apolitical?

oh com'on! Even local ah-mahs and ah-cheks are very well aware about the true nature behind those RCs/community centers etc.

Remember the who-should-use-the-loo fiasco during recent rally days?

Maybe this UK blog might partly help explain those "childishness" that you had been observing this week: Be Childish...for a Better Democracy! :wink:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 13 May 2011 1:19 am

Manthink wrote:sms, after all these years with PA and you assume these entities are apolitical?

Also, volunteers with the PA generally aren't doing so because of altruism but for the perks. Sorry SMS, but you're not the only one who can be cynical.


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