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Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Wed, 04 May 2011 10:18 pm

Well 56 years of engineering a cast-iron grip creates a pressure cooker of opposition.

Did the PM consider that this might not be the best time to redraw electoral boundaries on a whim* again, leaving many people feeling disenfranchised? Nope, it seems not.

Maybe genuinely entertaining a little more opposition would go some way to assuaging popular unrest?

I'm sure the PAP are not dumb enough to have not figured that out for themselves. Perhaps they are too arrogant to take on board that one day the party might be over, i.e. theirs.


* I understand that boundaries are re-drawn according to PMs directions, rather than statute or otherwise.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 05 May 2011 12:03 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Frankly, I worry about aljunied as I live there. I'm going to watch my property valuation take a tumble if the ruling party gets ousted here. A good example is the difference in similar HDB housing in both constituencies, with many more sales in Hougang (almost 2 to 1 and 10-16% lower sales prices). CRAP!

Have you looked at the data or are you taking LKY's word for it? Here's some data to suggest that there is not much difference in HDB prices between PAP and opposition wards:

http://www.bernardleong.com/2011/05/01/ ... -vote-for/

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2011/05/no- ... db-prices/

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 05 May 2011 6:57 am

I really don't need to look at the data (singstat and HDB data can say the same or 100% opposite on the same site depending on how the data is pulled. I live in Aljunied AND I live across the street from Hougang.

I also read the first link several days ago, I notice that they are not using apples to compare apples except to compare bedroom sizes. They are not using same age flats or same sq/m flats, so to me, using a single year that has been cherrypicked for the article to make his point, I discount the effort. Will look at the second link later in the morning......

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 05 May 2011 8:51 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I really don't need to look at the data (singstat and HDB data can say the same or 100% opposite on the same site depending on how the data is pulled. I live in Aljunied AND I live across the street from Hougang.

I also read the first link several days ago, I notice that they are not using apples to compare apples except to compare bedroom sizes. They are not using same age flats or same sq/m flats, so to me, using a single year that has been cherrypicked for the article to make his point, I discount the effort. Will look at the second link later in the morning......

Isn't disregarding the data considered "making baseless claims"? :wink:

The point is that citizens are now checking the facts for themselves, using whatever information is publicly available. I for one haven't seen even one datum from the PAP or HDB to make good their claims, when they have easy access to all the data.

The second link is more rigorous than the first, with the author choosing same sized and aged HDB flats practically across the street from each other, to try to isolate the factor of PAP vs opposition.

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Postby BillyB » Thu, 05 May 2011 10:30 am

I saw a funny and quite ironic report today on BBC World news regarding the elections in SG. It's getting some good & quite interesting coverage. Certainly giving opinion from both sides of the fence.

There was a old guy, of foreign origin, complaining about the influx of foreigners coming into Singapore. Saying how they take ALL the jobs. Yet the report pictured him with all the latest gadgets - nice home, big TV, sons playing on Ipad etc. And what made me chuckle was the fact he was living off the Government and on subsidies / benefits!!

He rants; 'These foreigners come in and offer to work for $1500, when I should be paid $2000 for the same job. How can I compete'? I'll tell you how you can compete. Get off your arse and work, even if you have to take a pay cut. After all you have family to support and bills to pay. The fact that you are so short sighted, or more likely probably don't care, that when you claim benefits this is a cost to the government. Which, ultimately, your fellow citizens and also the foreigners (ironic that isn't it!!)have to pay for through taxation.

It makes me laugh that the biggest critics are the ones who know how to milk the system and are too lazy to be proactive in their lifestyle. It's so easy for them to pass opinion without having any idea about the economics and the growth that evolves hence making Singapore a prosperous place for generations to come by creating ties with other Countries and allowing foreign workers. It creates trade flows in and out of SG. They'd rather keep a Country behind closed doors and watch it implode through lack of growth, just as long as they have first pick of the jobs and satisfy their own ego's. Yet they are quick to reap the monetary support and benefits available of living in a capitalist economy.

Reminds me of the Pakistani's in England complaining about all the Polish immigrants coming in and stealing their jobs and disrupting the community. If someone adds value to an economy and creates opportunities for the Country that in the long-term will benefit the wider society, why complain?

Although I hope that the situation doesn't escalate such as in Britain, where the middle and lower class are actually treated as the minority because the Country is so obsessed with political correctness and not upsetting the applecart.

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 05 May 2011 11:59 am

BillyB wrote:I saw a funny and quite ironic report today on BBC World news regarding the elections in SG. It's getting some good & quite interesting coverage. Certainly giving opinion from both sides of the fence.


BBC ? Impartial ? Both sides of the fence ? :D :D

back home, when an election was coming up, BBC predicted the winner, who was the opposition, and when the election commissioner told BBC to wind their neck in BBC was like "We are a neutral broadcasting agency" and the EC had this to say "well, then stop influencing votes by predicting who is winning" .. and lo and behold, the fact that the incumbent party was anti-Brit didn't help .. or rather, the UK was anti-ruling party ..

And when the ruling party won the election, the Ruling party did squarly ask what BBC was trying to do, by influencing those on the fence to vote for the opposition.

It's all Politics ..

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Postby Barnsley » Thu, 05 May 2011 12:07 pm

The comparison I would make with the UK is that they try and put as many people through University as they can and unfortunately there isnt something for everyone at the end of it. Why they feel the need to have everyone have a degree is beyond me.

What to do with those who are feeling disenfranchised is the biggest challenge for all Govts including Singapore.
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Postby BillyB » Thu, 05 May 2011 12:15 pm

ecureilx wrote:
BillyB wrote:I saw a funny and quite ironic report today on BBC World news regarding the elections in SG. It's getting some good & quite interesting coverage. Certainly giving opinion from both sides of the fence.


BBC ? Impartial ? Both sides of the fence ? :D :D

back home, when an election was coming up, BBC predicted the winner, who was the opposition, and when the election commissioner told BBC to wind their neck in BBC was like "We are a neutral broadcasting agency" and the EC had this to say "well, then stop influencing votes by predicting who is winning" .. and lo and behold, the fact that the incumbent party was anti-Brit didn't help .. or rather, the UK was anti-ruling party ..

And when the ruling party won the election, the Ruling party did squarly ask what BBC was trying to do, by influencing those on the fence to vote for the opposition.

It's all Politics ..


I never said the BBC was impartial. I stated the coverage was presenting both sides of the argument. If you think there is hidden messages in the reports then that's your interpretation.

If people are gullible enough to believe and read too deeply into what they see on TV and base their opinions purely on this, then more fool them.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 05 May 2011 12:20 pm

As we say in the US, they want all Chiefs and no indians. Pun Intended? :?

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Postby Barnsley » Thu, 05 May 2011 12:27 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:As we say in the US, they want all Chiefs and no indians. Pun Intended? :?


No Indians in every sense of the word apparently as well!!
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Thu, 05 May 2011 4:22 pm

Woooosh
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Postby morenangpinay » Thu, 05 May 2011 11:56 pm

They really don't think we contribute like pay taxes , buy their food, buy their clothes, bring more tourists. Its also ironic that my job helps bring in investors by promoting their country instead of mine. If they don't want foreign talents then make it across the board without bias for any nationality whether the foreigner is from a first world or a third world country.

When one taxi driver complained to me bout them being poor and not having any help from the government. I told him your poor lives in an HDB when our poor lives under the bridge without food for the day...

when my officemate told me she never get any job after school and why did I get a job immediately in my country after I graduated from school, i told her we don't rely on our government.Apparently she thought the government gave us jobs or help us go overseas by placing us in jobs abroad.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 06 May 2011 12:30 am

morenangpinay wrote:They really don't think we contribute like pay taxes , buy their food, buy their clothes, bring more tourists. Its also ironic that my job helps bring in investors by promoting their country instead of mine. If they don't want foreign talents then make it across the board without bias for any nationality whether the foreigner is from a first world or a third world country.

When one taxi driver complained to me bout them being poor and not having any help from the government. I told him your poor lives in an HDB when our poor lives under the bridge without food for the day...

when my officemate told me she never get any job after school and why did I get a job immediately in my country after I graduated from school, i told her we don't rely on our government.Apparently she thought the government gave us jobs or help us go overseas by placing us in jobs abroad.


+1.

But as what has been said, a democracy gets the government it deserves.

Sadly, even if the opposition wins, a lot of pampered, spoiled brats would expect miracles--they'd expect that suddenly, there won't be competing with foreigners for jobs, there won't be so many FT's crowding with them in the trains, HDB prices would suddenly drop down, fresh graduates would suddenly get job offers and so on Change takes time, most of it won't be 'palatable' and requires some effort from the expecting recipients.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 06 May 2011 4:54 am

I found this a useful summing up...


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39170.html
Singapore's 'Accountability Election'
The opposition pitches a new style of democratic oversight, and voters seem to like it.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 06 May 2011 8:49 am

nakatago wrote: Sadly, even if the opposition wins, a lot of pampered, spoiled brats would expect miracles

If they win nothing will change or everything will be turned to chaos (as compared to what is now) resulting in losing the established country credibility and only then Singaporeans will have a true reason to complain. It is always easy to ride on populistic sentiments but this finishes soon after the real job starts unless this job was only about filling up some pockets or satisfying someone's hunger for power.


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