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Opposition pre-election vid re: foreigners

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ecureilx
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Postby ecureilx » Sun, 08 May 2011 11:11 pm



A rhetoric question .. back home where Al Jazeera is based in, Democracy thrives I guess ?? :D : D

No, I don't expect an answer ..

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 08 May 2011 11:26 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:It's kinda a nice change that I'm the one now being critical of the country and so many people are jumping to its defence. I should have played to this contrarian instinct a long time ago!



:lol:

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 08 May 2011 11:47 pm

ecureilx wrote:


A rhetoric question .. back home where Al Jazeera is based in, Democracy thrives I guess ?? :D : D

No, I don't expect an answer ..


Qatar has been in the grip of one family for only 40 years.

So on a relative scale, yes it is more democratic than SG :)

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 09 May 2011 4:25 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:Well, half my countrymen get criticised for being kiasu and materialistic, and the other half gets chided for being ideological and unrealistic. We can't win, can we? My conclusion is that human nature is the same everywhere and it is as impossible to stop posters here from constantly finding fault with Singaporeans no matter how wonderful we are, as it is to stop Singaporeans from constantly finding fault with the government no matter how good it is :D

It's kinda a nice change that I'm the one now being critical of the country and so many people are jumping to its defence. I should have played to this contrarian instinct a long time ago!


You are not alone, WIMH. I have live long enough to see the discrimination against race, individuals and groups that is thicker than the bible if I were to compile it!!
This election is a watershed. The ruling party used their well oiled machinery to the fullest thinking that the people will be taken in by dangling carrots like before. This time however some did not bite into it. Look at Malaysia, Indonesia, Middle East etc..when a ruling party has absolute power, for a long period of time it abuses its power. Money does not work anymore.
I have lived in many parts of the world, there has not been one place where there is fairness during election. But at least, apart for SG and M'sia where the ruling party stoop so low, the election has more dignified process and fairness.
The people of SG does not want to lose the Ruling Gahmen period. Most of them only wants their voices to be heard !!! Not some mumbo jumbo NMP or PAP MP who thinks they know what their constituency feels. Even GOH CK said he cannot feel how the young voters think on this election. MM Lee realised and knew Aljunied GRC will go down even before the election. It was too little too late.They concentrated too much effort on Potong Pasir.
PM likes to surround himself with military men in the belief that this kind fof men is a thinker, tailor, soldier breed of men. If anyone thinks this PM is a better person that his predecessor think again. He is more cunning and ruthless.
I knew this day will come and I hope it will change for the better.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 09 May 2011 7:47 am

I just read the news today and quoted

In his first, albeit indirect, comments about the results of Saturday's General Election, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said at a community event in Tanglin Halt last night that "2011 has seen a generation that does not remember from whence we came, but that is to be expected. But I do, and those amongst you who are over 50 will remember".

What a piece of C**P coming from him. The one that shifted the balance in Aljuined is the above 50s not the younger generation.
As I have said before what happened in 2006 will always be remembered. The people of Aljunied forgives but never forgets.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 09 May 2011 8:13 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
x9200 wrote:You seemed much less radical the other time when we discussed the secret police in the kopitiams vs freedom of speech, remember? :)

And I still maintain that you can criticise the government openly in kopitiams. If this were not allowed, thousands of us who have been posting on Facebook will be in prison soon :)
I am not saying differently :) Just picked up an apparent contradiction. Don't worry I know the difference between freedom of speech in the kopitiam and in a newspaper.

x9200 wrote:Do you also have a clear vision how this can be done without sacrificing the well being of your citizens?

In this very election, we just witnessed how this is being done. Only credible opposition candidates from well-organised parties were voted in. If the opposition had won 20 seats, I would worry for Singapore because there aren't 20 credible candidates right now and people would be voting irrationally out of misdirected anger against the PAP. My countrymen are more discerning than you give them credit for, my friend. Liberalisation and democratisation is happening slowly but steadily, at a pace the country can handle.

In this election you just showed the first possible step with the consequences not really known at this point. I don't think it is enough to call it a vision, but you may be right on the credit part and for this I apology. Still and again this is only kind of prerequisite and the real challenge lays IHMO in a complex geo-socio(including racial)-political situation of Singapore.

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 09 May 2011 8:22 am

JR8 wrote:
x9200 wrote:
revhappy wrote:Sad, the current generation who are wanting a change haven't seen how bad and currupt some other gahmens can be.

My thoughts too. Not that it gives justification but it gives something missing here very much: a perspective.


How would they know if the current gubment is corrupt, who is going to tell them?

There is no opposition, to act as a check and balance.
There is no free media.
There is no concept of investigative journalism.

It is unlikely for the following reasons:
a) typically it happens when some officials are underpaid - clearly not the case of Singapore.
b) it is for competitive goods - in conjunction wit "a" it would require tremendous amount of money and this would attract a lot of attention (from other officials or other interested parties)
c) hardly ever is contained to an isolated case.

There are a lot of countries with no democracy (no opposition, no free media etc) and everybody knows the corruption is there. The information spreads by the word of moth or by the media outside of the country.

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 09 May 2011 8:37 am

Mad Scientist wrote:I just read the news today and quoted

In his first, albeit indirect, comments about the results of Saturday's General Election, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said at a community event in Tanglin Halt last night that "2011 has seen a generation that does not remember from whence we came, but that is to be expected. But I do, and those amongst you who are over 50 will remember".

What a piece of C**P coming from him. The one that shifted the balance in Aljuined is the above 50s not the younger generation.
As I have said before what happened in 2006 will always be remembered. The people of Aljunied forgives but never forgets.


Is it so wrong for me to think that despite this man's ability and intelligence that he, apparently, is so full of himself? His hubris blinds him.

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 09 May 2011 8:39 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:Well, half my countrymen get criticised for being kiasu and materialistic, and the other half gets chided for being ideological and unrealistic. We can't win, can we? My conclusion is that human nature is the same everywhere and it is as impossible to stop posters here from constantly finding fault with Singaporeans no matter how wonderful we are, as it is to stop Singaporeans from constantly finding fault with the government no matter how good it is :D

It's kinda a nice change that I'm the one now being critical of the country and so many people are jumping to its defence. I should have played to this contrarian instinct a long time ago!

I think it is contradictive exactly the same way as the freedom of speech and the kopitiam from the other post meaning is not contradictive at all, it is just concerning completely different aspects. On top of this, maybe I will give again not enough credit to your countrymen but I still do not think the majority realize how all this can affect the materialistic part of their being.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 09 May 2011 9:11 am

nakatago wrote:
Mad Scientist wrote:I just read the news today and quoted

In his first, albeit indirect, comments about the results of Saturday's General Election, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said at a community event in Tanglin Halt last night that "2011 has seen a generation that does not remember from whence we came, but that is to be expected. But I do, and those amongst you who are over 50 will remember".

What a piece of C**P coming from him. The one that shifted the balance in Aljuined is the above 50s not the younger generation.
As I have said before what happened in 2006 will always be remembered. The people of Aljunied forgives but never forgets.


Is it so wrong for me to think that despite this man's ability and intelligence that he, apparently, is so full of himself? His hubris blinds him.


The problem is no one dares to said right to his face that he is full of sh*t on this one !! Those that dares just to bate an eyelid has already been banished or disappear from the face of this earth.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 09 May 2011 9:51 am

There is the clip on u-tube of Chris Patten, however, telling a reporter exactly what he thinks of Asia and LKY.

The problem for LKY is two fold.....1) he's had 40-50yrs of people telling him he's great, he's transformed Singapore single-handedly, he's a nice guy etc. etc. and 2) he's OLD! The brain's not operating at a high capacity like it did before.

LKY and Dr.M both are in the same boat and both need to walk away though, I believe Dr.M has done a better job of it recently.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 09 May 2011 10:25 am

ScoobyDoes wrote:There is the clip on u-tube of Chris Patten, however, telling a reporter exactly what he thinks of Asia and LKY.

The problem for LKY is two fold.....1) he's had 40-50yrs of people telling him he's great, he's transformed Singapore single-handedly, he's a nice guy etc. etc. and 2) he's OLD! The brain's not operating at a high capacity like it did before.

LKY and Dr.M both are in the same boat and both need to walk away though, I believe Dr.M has done a better job of it recently.


@ScoobyDoes; To say he is a nice guy is an understatement. BTW Dr.M is also not doing a good job in keeping quiet or else how did Abdullah got the boot and Najib got the top job .
Out of respect of what he had done for SG, I take my hat off but sometimes the comms goes both ways. The Gahmen needs to listen to the people too. I grew up in SG when the times were harsh and everybody just tighten their belt and persevere. What I hate the most is keep on repeating the history and use the scare mongering tactics to win votes. Goh CT when he took over the helm, he was made to sign off Parks and Recreations Department initiatives and works himself instead of the department head just because P & R was MM pet project. Beautifying SG was his pet idea after a visit to Holland years before.
For him , "Is either my way or the highway "
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby darpy » Mon, 09 May 2011 11:33 am

a couple of thoughts/comments I have garnished from this thread:

1. despite inferences to what some mean by the word "foreigner," among locals here the target is SQUARELY mainlanders. Like almost every country in the world, there is a degree of resentment to highly paid "foreign talent" and their outwardly expressed arrogance in public places, but I do not believe this to be serious.
Locals I speak to have serious concerns about the influx of mainland chinese and the perception that this brings higher crime and a lowering of the living standards. Just have a look at Hong Kong now compared to pre-1997 and try and tell me that place hasn't gone down the toilet. I could cite generalisations of such behaviour (such as public spitting), but having witnessed a Scandenavian ambassador flagrantly smoking in front of a no-smoking sign at MBS, then turfing the butt on the path outside the front doors, I feel we cant limit these comments to race. That said, it is the PERCEPTION that is driving public sentiment.

2. with regards to the election, a lot of comments here regarding the quality of the government appear to miss the point, and exhibit the one eyed ignorance consistent with over paid foreigners in this country. Not everything is about money and I suggest (as some have already) the vote was the result of a significant amount of people (1/3 of the population) reminding the government that their arrogance can be curtailed. Yes we can cite examples in neighbouring countries where the situation is worse, but that doesn't make it better.

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 09 May 2011 12:10 pm

Saying something could be worse or that it's worse somewhere else is no excuse not to meet a certain standard.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 09 May 2011 12:52 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:PM likes to surround himself with military men in the belief that this kind fof men is a thinker, tailor, soldier breed of men.

MS, you're right and this is why the PAP is having trouble now. They have excellent technocrats and managers pulled into politics from the civil service and military, who are good at running the economy. But they don't have enough from the private sector, who understand PR and have a client mentality which enables them to engage others respectfully rather than talking down to them.

x9200 wrote:On top of this, maybe I will give again not enough credit to your countrymen but I still do not think the majority realize how all this can affect the materialistic part of their being.

We are probably among the most materialistic voters in the world. I know people who voted PAP simply because they did not want to lose out on upgrading. How much more materialistic can you get? Many others voted PAP because they know the economy is doing well and they don't want to rock the boat. So I can assure you that materialistic considerations rank high in the average Singaporean's decision-making process. It's just that a small but growing minority has just decided that some things matter more than material well-being.

On the macroeconomic level, how many people in any country understand how an economy really works? The fact that our political leaders, supported by a very competent civil service, run a successful economy suggest that despite our small size, the proportion of people who understand macroeconomics is relatively large compared to other countries.

Perhaps you should explain to me why you think so little of the average Singaporean voter. On what basis do you form your opinions? I've given you my rationale for my view. What's yours?


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