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BIN LADEN HAS BEEN KILLED AND WE HAVE THE BODY!

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 02 May 2011 11:40 pm

BillyB wrote:It's quite strange about the body being 'thrown to sea' as some reports are mentioning. I saw pictures of his 'dead' face on the news today. If they got those pictures - assuming of course it isn't a body double - why dispose of it?


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Muslim tradition that a body is buried within 24hrs, they were trying to show respect to that tradition. Whilst also (and being practical, where would they bury him?) not wishing to create any form of site of 'pilgrimage' on land.

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I don't know. The US Admin had to tread a very tricky line there I think. On the one hand I found BO's announcement speech mawkish on my ear (for a biting parody of such a style refer to the 'This watch' scene in the film Pulp Fiction). But also he naturally wished to ride the success as much as possible, whilst not inflaming Middle-Eastern opinion via triumphalism. I think the last thing they wanted was some massively protracted panning-out which would almost inevitably have been a focus of inter-racial tension and dubbed a show-trial by some quarters. Taking him alive was probably bound to be a no-win situation.


p.s. A rich irony is that in the Dem heartlands of the Pacific Coast they had to cut away from Trump's NBC The Apprentice show to screen BO's speech. Good timing eh? :)

Edit to add...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngBtoylIVM
Pulp fiction - the Watch.
:)
Last edited by JR8 on Tue, 03 May 2011 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby BillyB » Tue, 03 May 2011 12:00 am

Call me naive or even a cynic, but it all seems a little too out of the blue, well crafted and closed off at break neck pace. It amazes me that with the surveillance technology available and ears on the ground, it's took so long to find this guy and then he crops up in what is mainland Pakistan, less than a mile from the intelligence agencies. Something doesn't sit right.

The U.S. Economy is suffering, Obama's ratings are down, troops are due to pull out of Afghanistan in July, gold and oil prices rocketing, dollar weakening, sentiment being quite negative in general. This is almost an overnight, off the shelf solution to fix most of the above points.

What do the general Americans think if you look beyond the psychological factors of his death, and the emotional closure after 10 years of searching and suffering?

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 03 May 2011 12:38 am

BillyB wrote:Call me naive or even a cynic, but it all seems a little too out of the blue, well crafted and closed off at break neck pace. It amazes me that with the surveillance technology available and ears on the ground, it's took so long to find this guy and then he crops up in what is mainland Pakistan, less than a mile from the intelligence agencies. Something doesn't sit right.

The U.S. Economy is suffering, Obama's ratings are down, troops are due to pull out of Afghanistan in July, gold and oil prices rocketing, dollar weakening, sentiment being quite negative in general. This is almost an overnight, off the shelf solution to fix most of the above points.

What do the general Americans think if you look beyond the psychological factors of his death, and the emotional closure after 10 years of searching and suffering?



At least BO was polite enough not to interrupt the coverage of the Royal Wedding :lol: :wink:

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 03 May 2011 3:22 am

BillyB wrote:Call me naive or even a cynic, but it all seems a little too out of the blue, well crafted and closed off at break neck pace. It amazes me that with the surveillance technology available and ears on the ground, it's took so long to find this guy and then he crops up in what is mainland Pakistan, less than a mile from the intelligence agencies.


I understand what you are saying but remember who trained him. Bin Laden was a member of the Mujahideen whom the Americans were only too keen to fund when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Seems America is very good at burning it's own bridges in more ways than one.
Last edited by Plavt on Tue, 03 May 2011 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 03 May 2011 8:48 am

Plavt wrote:
BillyB wrote:Call me naive or even a cynic, but it all seems a little too out of the blue, well crafted and closed off at break neck pace. It amazes me that with the surveillance technology available and ears on the ground, it's took so long to find this guy and then he crops up in what is mainland Pakistan, less than a mile from the intelligence agencies.

I understand what you are saying but remembere who trained him. Bin Laden was a member of the Mujahideen whom the Americans were only too keen to fund when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Seems America is very good at burning it's own bridges in more ways than one.

Still hard to believe especially that all these intelligence agencies justify large part of their existence base on the existence of people like ObL or of a bit smaller caliber.

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Postby BillyB » Tue, 03 May 2011 9:31 am

Plavt wrote:
BillyB wrote:Call me naive or even a cynic, but it all seems a little too out of the blue, well crafted and closed off at break neck pace. It amazes me that with the surveillance technology available and ears on the ground, it's took so long to find this guy and then he crops up in what is mainland Pakistan, less than a mile from the intelligence agencies.


I understand what you are saying but remembere who trained him. Bin Laden was a member of the Mujahideen whom the Americans were only too keen to fund when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Seems America is very good at burning it's own bridges in more ways than one.


I read today that he *could* have been living in the compound for over 6 years! How do Pakistan explain that one??!!

I'm also trying to get my head around how the operation took place given it fell in the jurisdiction of mainland Pakistan. Did the U.S. accidentally fly into the airspace and carry out the op without permission? Or was there co-operation? Would the Americans have told Pakistan they had a lead about BL - not a chance!! Sounds like the cloak and daggers were dusted off sometime before the 'operation'.

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 03 May 2011 2:09 pm

^ On further reflection there does seem to be something fishy since a good deal of trouble seems to eminate from Pakistan although I haven't been studying the situation in any depth.
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Postby Yeboah » Tue, 03 May 2011 6:48 pm

Must have been one of those to have his Playstation Network account hacked. :wink:

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 03 May 2011 8:06 pm

BillyB wrote: It amazes me that with the surveillance technology available and ears on the ground, it's took so long to find this guy and then he crops up in what is mainland Pakistan, less than a mile from the intelligence agencies. Something doesn't sit right.


Re: the question of did Pakistan shield him, I found this interesting...

[color=blue][i]'It took another two years to establish in which part of Pakistan he [one of Bin Laden's couriers] operated, and then, last August, President Obama was told that the courier’s home in the military garrison town of Abbottabad had been identified.

“It was a 'Holy cow!’ moment,”

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Postby eleri » Tue, 03 May 2011 10:04 pm

I look forward to a movie/documentary though that will show that operation by the navy seals. I'm a big fan of military action clips :)

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Postby BillyB » Tue, 03 May 2011 10:37 pm

JR8 wrote:
BillyB wrote: It amazes me that with the surveillance technology available and ears on the ground, it's took so long to find this guy and then he crops up in what is mainland Pakistan, less than a mile from the intelligence agencies. Something doesn't sit right.


Re: the question of did Pakistan shield him, I found this interesting...

[color=blue][i]'It took another two years to establish in which part of Pakistan he [one of Bin Laden's couriers] operated, and then, last August, President Obama was told that the courier’s home in the military garrison town of Abbottabad had been identified.

“It was a 'Holy cow!’ moment,”

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 03 May 2011 10:55 pm

eleri wrote:I look forward to a movie/documentary though that will show that operation by the navy seals. I'm a big fan of military action clips :)


Then you might find this interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixoOxg_Xk4
British SAS / US Special Forces at Mazar Sharif

[I understand the title is misleading, and that it was the SBS not SAS]


p.s. I am not in any way glorifying war etc., but genuine footage of special forces in action is extremely rare, and I happened to know of this video clip.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 04 May 2011 7:50 pm

An article analysing the relationship between Pakistan and Al-Quada/other jihadist groups.

It's a long and pretty heavy read, but sums up how we got to where we currently are, and the mutual goals between Pakistan and the above groups.

Concluding excerpt:
=====
'Bin Laden's likely successors – the Egyptian jihad veteran Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda's poet-warrior Abu Yahya al-Libi and organisational genius Saif-al-Adel – are all in Pakistan. Gen Kayani [color=black][head of Pakistan army] has made clear that he has no intention of moving troops into North Waziristan, where Muhammad Illyas Kashmiri's camps are training jihadists to target the West, and have demonstrated no will to go after al-Qaeda elsewhere.

For decades, Western governments have sought, in essence, to bribe Pakistan into a strategic alliance. Gen Kayani has made clear that Pakistan sees things very differently: the West's war against terror, in his view, has mired his country in an existence-threatening crisis, which the army wants out of. That is a choice neither the West, nor Pakistan's citizens, the principal victims of the jihadists on its soil, can afford.

There are few good options from here: Pakistan and the West are entering a new and profoundly perilous stage in their relationship. Bin Laden's killing might be the end of one phase of the war on terror, but it is profoundly unlikely to be the beginning of peace.'[/color]
=====
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... onned.html

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Postby BillyB » Thu, 05 May 2011 9:20 pm


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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 06 May 2011 3:18 pm

New drink - the Osama bin Laden special

2 shots and a splash of water


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