Caption under photo 1/6 leading this rolling live-news article
'Hell will freeze over before Germany and Chancellor Angela Merkel accept joint liability for debts of the periphery countries'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt ... -Live.html
Have you got that yet? Germany are not 'holding the EU together', it is the chimera that they potentially could, just possibly, that is stopping everything collapsing in other than the agonisingly slow motion that it currently is - for now.
Aber nein ist nein. Nein?
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The BillyB, Aster & JR8 roundtable!
The EU is the key to the continent doing well. We'd bee in much deeper $hit is everyone had their own currency, their own customs border, their own import tariffs, their own certificates/norms for everything product that exists bar none. The common market is a great thing. Even the UK exports more to Europe than anywhere else in the world.
The fact that Spain doesn't want to make cuts now has NOTHING to do with being in the EU. It's a political thing - you don't want to make unpopular decisions that will lose you support when there is some sort of election looming (in this case a local one). It happens the world over.
Probably the only place where it has happened recently is Poland, where the IMF (or maybe it was someone else) praised the finance minister for unexpectedly slicing almost 40% of the planned budget deficit in what was an election year. And now compare that to Hungary, which is run by complete nut-jobs who are passing idiotic laws and driving the country in Greece's direction...
The EU and Euro didn't bring about financial mess, it was the excessive borrowing that did. Being part of the Euro has made it possible for countries to borrow cheaply, but that doesn't mean that this is the reason they're in trouble. If McDonalds gives me a booklet of vouchers that allows me to purchase Big Macs at 99 cents each and I get fat, it's my own fault.
In fact being part of the Euro would have helped, because maintaining the same level of debt would have meant much lower costs.
The EU and Euro are here to stay, and rightly so. It's a phenomenal achievement that has benefited the continent.
The fact that Spain doesn't want to make cuts now has NOTHING to do with being in the EU. It's a political thing - you don't want to make unpopular decisions that will lose you support when there is some sort of election looming (in this case a local one). It happens the world over.
Probably the only place where it has happened recently is Poland, where the IMF (or maybe it was someone else) praised the finance minister for unexpectedly slicing almost 40% of the planned budget deficit in what was an election year. And now compare that to Hungary, which is run by complete nut-jobs who are passing idiotic laws and driving the country in Greece's direction...
The EU and Euro didn't bring about financial mess, it was the excessive borrowing that did. Being part of the Euro has made it possible for countries to borrow cheaply, but that doesn't mean that this is the reason they're in trouble. If McDonalds gives me a booklet of vouchers that allows me to purchase Big Macs at 99 cents each and I get fat, it's my own fault.
In fact being part of the Euro would have helped, because maintaining the same level of debt would have meant much lower costs.
The EU and Euro are here to stay, and rightly so. It's a phenomenal achievement that has benefited the continent.
Aster:
The Germans are the ones holding this entire continent together financially. Without them you could forget about the European economy altogether... because if they went down then the continent would collapse with a domino effect.
Soros, today in Davos:
“The austerity Germany wants to impose will push Europe into an inflationary debt spiral. The architects of the euro knew it was an incomplete currency when they designed it.”
The Germans are the ones holding this entire continent together financially. Without them you could forget about the European economy altogether... because if they went down then the continent would collapse with a domino effect.
Soros, today in Davos:
“The austerity Germany wants to impose will push Europe into an inflationary debt spiral. The architects of the euro knew it was an incomplete currency when they designed it.”
Some interesting comments from David Davis, former UK Shadow Home Secretary and the guy that almost pipped Cameron to be leader of the Conservatives back in 2006.
Sadly, knowing how politicians behave, the sensible pre-emptive route suggested will never be taken...
------------------------------
'Europe's leadership, and that of France and Germany in particular, views the preservation of the European political project as justifying any economic price that has to be paid. That is why Eurozone finance ministers always shoot the messenger when credit rating agencies report the inconvenient facts. For them, the breakup of the euro cannot be countenanced, so they refuse to face up to the economic reality that the Euro is not a currency beset by problems; the Euro is the problem.
...
The second lesson for Eurozone leaders is to put down the “Big Bazooka”
Sadly, knowing how politicians behave, the sensible pre-emptive route suggested will never be taken...
------------------------------
'Europe's leadership, and that of France and Germany in particular, views the preservation of the European political project as justifying any economic price that has to be paid. That is why Eurozone finance ministers always shoot the messenger when credit rating agencies report the inconvenient facts. For them, the breakup of the euro cannot be countenanced, so they refuse to face up to the economic reality that the Euro is not a currency beset by problems; the Euro is the problem.
...
The second lesson for Eurozone leaders is to put down the “Big Bazooka”
aster wrote:The EU is the key to the continent doing well. We'd bee in much deeper $hit is everyone had their own currency, their own customs border, their own import tariffs, their own certificates/norms for everything product that exists bar none. The common market is a great thing. Even the UK exports more to Europe than anywhere else in the world.
The fact that Spain doesn't want to make cuts now has NOTHING to do with being in the EU. It's a political thing - you don't want to make unpopular decisions that will lose you support when there is some sort of election looming (in this case a local one). It happens the world over.
Probably the only place where it has happened recently is Poland, where the IMF (or maybe it was someone else) praised the finance minister for unexpectedly slicing almost 40% of the planned budget deficit in what was an election year. And now compare that to Hungary, which is run by complete nut-jobs who are passing idiotic laws and driving the country in Greece's direction...
The EU and Euro didn't bring about financial mess, it was the excessive borrowing that did. Being part of the Euro has made it possible for countries to borrow cheaply, but that doesn't mean that this is the reason they're in trouble. If McDonalds gives me a booklet of vouchers that allows me to purchase Big Macs at 99 cents each and I get fat, it's my own fault.
In fact being part of the Euro would have helped, because maintaining the same level of debt would have meant much lower costs.
The EU and Euro are here to stay, and rightly so. It's a phenomenal achievement that has benefited the continent.
Aster, stay off the vino!
The best thing that could happen for the long-term stability of Europe would be the collapse of the Euro. It would force decisions to be made and shift away from this 'pass the buck' and 'we can't make a collective decision' fiasco that's been going on for years. It might have a knock-on effect of 12-24 months, but it would force tough decisions to be made, but people would adapt and move on.
Someone with no political motives needs to be brought in to make some very harsh and career defining / ending decisions; but are you going to find someone like that in France, Germany, Italy or Spain.......don't make me laugh! Maybe someone neutral is required who doesn't have other motives.
[quote="JR8"]Soros today in Davos, on UK GDP figures:
“To expect a rebound is unrealistic. But Britain is benefitting from not being part of the euro.
Soros on the outlook for the euro and EU:
“The outlook for the euro is truly dismal. The EU is undemocratic to the point where the electorate is disaffected and ungovernable. It is so undemocratic that it can't deal with the crisis it has created.”
“To expect a rebound is unrealistic. But Britain is benefitting from not being part of the euro.
Soros on the outlook for the euro and EU:
“The outlook for the euro is truly dismal. The EU is undemocratic to the point where the electorate is disaffected and ungovernable. It is so undemocratic that it can't deal with the crisis it has created.”
[quote="aster"][quote="JR8"]Soros today in Davos, on UK GDP figures:
“To expect a rebound is unrealistic. But Britain is benefitting from not being part of the euro.
Soros on the outlook for the euro and EU:
“The outlook for the euro is truly dismal. The EU is undemocratic to the point where the electorate is disaffected and ungovernable. It is so undemocratic that it can't deal with the crisis it has created.”
“To expect a rebound is unrealistic. But Britain is benefitting from not being part of the euro.
Soros on the outlook for the euro and EU:
“The outlook for the euro is truly dismal. The EU is undemocratic to the point where the electorate is disaffected and ungovernable. It is so undemocratic that it can't deal with the crisis it has created.”
I reckon the Euro will be a very good bet in the long run.
What's strikingly curious is how the latest mass-downgrade has had quite the opposite effect in terms of which way the markets are headed (basically: nobody gives a flying $hit what the ratings agencies have to say any more).
Since then high-risk currencies like the Aussie, which is a barometer of global sentiment, have SOARED.
If the Euro or even Europe was in truly deep shit with a global financial meltdown looming then the AUD would be in a downwards spiral.
What's strikingly curious is how the latest mass-downgrade has had quite the opposite effect in terms of which way the markets are headed (basically: nobody gives a flying $hit what the ratings agencies have to say any more).
Since then high-risk currencies like the Aussie, which is a barometer of global sentiment, have SOARED.
If the Euro or even Europe was in truly deep shit with a global financial meltdown looming then the AUD would be in a downwards spiral.
We live in interesting times.
First the ratings agencies do a massive downgrade that the markets laugh at and dismiss completely.
And now the shylocks are getting the living daylights beat out of them by the EU, where Germany are playing a brilliant hand of poker each time the cards are dealt.
No talk of the ECB losing on Greek bonds, it's all about the shylocks taking a MASSIVE hit that would have been completely unthinkable several months ago. And not only will they have to settle for a 50 or 60% loss (serves 'em right), the EU is now dictating the terms of the remainder of Greek debt. We're now looking at less than 4% on the remaining debt, which is below that of... Australian bonds. Anyone want to fill us in on what so-called "ratings" both countries have?
So all the greedy, thieving banksters can do is listen, and umm... accept. Else there's a big, strong kick in the ass coming their way...
First the ratings agencies do a massive downgrade that the markets laugh at and dismiss completely.
And now the shylocks are getting the living daylights beat out of them by the EU, where Germany are playing a brilliant hand of poker each time the cards are dealt.
No talk of the ECB losing on Greek bonds, it's all about the shylocks taking a MASSIVE hit that would have been completely unthinkable several months ago. And not only will they have to settle for a 50 or 60% loss (serves 'em right), the EU is now dictating the terms of the remainder of Greek debt. We're now looking at less than 4% on the remaining debt, which is below that of... Australian bonds. Anyone want to fill us in on what so-called "ratings" both countries have?
So all the greedy, thieving banksters can do is listen, and umm... accept. Else there's a big, strong kick in the ass coming their way...
You heard it from the horses mouth: 'Austerity programmes must be tailored to each economy'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16771939
Guess that 'one size fits all' policy isn't working after all, huh!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16771939
Guess that 'one size fits all' policy isn't working after all, huh!
aster wrote: And now the shylocks are getting the living daylights beat out of them by the EU, where Germany are playing a brilliant hand of poker each time the cards are dealt.
Oh, and I thought the EU was about post-nationalism and free trade?
p.s. Aster, you constantly make racist remarks. Do you also refer to black people as niggers?
Not at all. You ought to read more Shakespeare.JR8 wrote:p.s. Aster, you constantly make racist remarks.
Dishonest, greedy money-lenders with a complete lack of ethics are still around today in a more corporate form.
Say what? I thought you were the one who spoke wonders about Sarah Palin and what a great leader she would make, lol. So maybe I should be asking you that question?JR8 wrote:Do you also refer to black people as niggers?
aster wrote: Not at all. You ought to read more Shakespeare.
Dishonest, greedy money-lenders with a complete lack of ethics are still around today in a more corporate form.
Fortuitous for you you're not making the comment on a UK forum, as one report of such racism to the police, and they'd be knocking at your door.
Say what?JR8 wrote:Do you also refer to black people as niggers?
Ooh-er, slipping into AfAm patois.... for a moment I thought you might be black yourself!!!
I thought you were the one who spoke wonders about Sarah Palin and what a great leader she would make, lol. So maybe I should be asking you that question?
<Squint> Nice try phhh, what I said, whilst you were attempting a predictable limp-wristed leftist hatchet job on her, was that she has achieved more in her life than you ever will. I suppose that stung.
As you didn't answer the question I'll take that as a yes too then. So, you're racist towards jews and blacks, any other races you hate, how about Chinese or those from the sub-continent?
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Somebody needs to do a lot more than a "limp-wristed leftist hatchet job" on Sarah Palin... they need to shut the bimbo down and send her back with her moose. It is truly scary that an idiot of Sarah's monumental proportions actually got onto the presidential ticket.
But, I digress. We return you to the bashing already in progress.
But, I digress. We return you to the bashing already in progress.
Fortuitous for you you're not making such submoronic comments on a UK forum, as a delegation from the local cuckoo's nest would show up quoting the "mental health act."JR8 wrote:Fortuitous for you you're not making the comment on a UK forum, as one report of such racism to the police, and they'd be knocking at your door.
Yeah, call the cops and tell them someone is quoting Shakespeare, lol. You must have watched "V for Vendetta" or "Fahrenheit 451" one too many times...
No comment...JR8 wrote:Ooh-er, slipping into AfAm patois.... for a moment I thought you might be black yourself!!!
Coming from a life failure like yourself it certainly couldn't have stung. You always make up stories that contradict themselves, then you post how you were a punching bag for your now ex-wife, I don't think anybody's sure any more what's real and what is just one of your fairy tale stories. One thing's for sure: you have some personality disorder(s) that need sorting out. Go see a professional.JR8 wrote:what I said, whilst you were attempting a predictable limp-wristed leftist hatchet job on her, was that she has achieved more in her life than you ever will. I suppose that stung.
Yet another submoronic comment... as expected.JR8 wrote:you're racist towards jews and blacks, any other races you hate, how about Chinese or those from the sub-continent?
Like I said, I don't like shylocks - dishonest, greedy money-lenders with a complete lack of ethics (aka global financial institutions). Anything else is just a figment of your imagination...
I also have a severe dislike of people who could easily be classified as idiots, which is why you and I don't seem to get along.
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