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Postby JR8 » Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:01 pm

re: my earlier point.
A headline from today's Mail:

'Finally some relief for homeowners as house prices see biggest leap in 19 months (but still down on last year)'

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 01 Sep 2011 2:43 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... AHv3UnXvmM
'Here's a video of a young Barroso, described by EUXTV as a 'young, passionate Maoist student leader'.'


Barroso is one of those big EU figures, that no one knows what he does or gets to vote for him? It's just he wields daily influence over all of their lives.

Figures for an EU commie I suppose.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 02 Sep 2011 6:25 pm

Weeeeee! What fun!


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'Investors do not fully believe EU pledges that the 21pc "haircut" agreed for private holders of Greek debt is the end of the story, or will remain confined to Greece, as the second Greek rescue is already unravelling. A Greek parliament report concluded that deep recession is pushing the country into a downward spiral, causing debt dynamics to fly "out of control". Public debt will reach 172pc of GDP next year.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... risis.html

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Postby BillyB » Sat, 03 Sep 2011 10:31 am

JR8 wrote:Weeeeee! What fun!


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'Investors do not fully believe EU pledges that the 21pc "haircut" agreed for private holders of Greek debt is the end of the story, or will remain confined to Greece, as the second Greek rescue is already unravelling. A Greek parliament report concluded that deep recession is pushing the country into a downward spiral, causing debt dynamics to fly "out of control". Public debt will reach 172pc of GDP next year.
--------------
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... risis.html


Pack of cards.........

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Postby aster » Sat, 03 Sep 2011 6:47 pm

JR8 wrote:Barroso is one of those big EU figures, that no one knows what he does or gets to vote for him? It's just he wields daily influence over all of their lives.

Figures for an EU commie I suppose.


Actually he's one of the guys holding it together. One of the good guys that is.

Greece cheated its way into the Euro-zone and then cheated its way to even greater loans (courtesy of banks that aided them in economic data forgery...), but other countries are also in trouble and will have to make cuts as well if they expect any aid packages to come their way.

Then there's the US, where printing more money is always an option so going bust is never an issue. As Greenspan said, the US is always able to pay off its debts because it can always print whatever money is needed to cover them. :)

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 04 Sep 2011 2:15 am

aster wrote:
JR8 wrote:Actually he's one of the guys holding it together. One of the good guys that is.

Greece cheated its way into the Euro-zone and then cheated its way to even greater loans



The difficulty with your argument is multiple:

a) 'It's all Greece's fault!!!' is Merkel's cry and she is a dead PM walking as no one believes her.

b) that the ECB and it's policy is run solely targeting the economy of Germany, and this is no longer deniable. (I.e. Bugger everyone else and if others will go bankrupt, we're still going to do what works for Germany).

c) The European Commission knew as early as 2004 that Greece had lied to join the Euro (see previous post)

-----------
'In November 2004, Finance Minister George Alogoskoufis admitted that the budget figures the country had used to gain admission to the euro club were fudged. "It has been proven that the deficit had not fallen below 3% in every year since 1999," he told reporters.

Greek financial daily Naftemborikieven reported the exact size of the lie. From 1997 to 1999, the years that the European Union examined to determine whether Greece had met the 3% deficit maximum, the Greek budget deficit was 6.44%, 4.13% and 3.38%. (Given what we know now, you're entitled to take even those figures with a grain of salt.)

At that time, Greece was looking at a 5% budget deficit -- and rising as the country added cost after cost for the Summer Olympics. Data filed with the European Union showed that the country had exceeded the 3% budget deficit maximum every year since 2000.

And the reaction from the EU? As best as I can judge, a collective shrug. It was a done deal. European Commission spokesman Gerassimos Thomas said: "Greece's admission to the eurozone was done on the basis of the convergence report which was established at the time and on the basis of figures and the statistical methodology applied at that time. It wasn't in question at that time."

At this time, I'll bet there are more than a few officials and politicians in Brussels, Berlin and Paris who wish that decision hadn't been allowed to stand at that time.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/In ... books.aspx
-----------

And yet despite knowing, the EU, the European Commission did nothing to sanction, rein in or control Greece, right up until it's current implosion? Truly amazing isn't it!

And who has been head of the European Commission since the truth was admitted by Greece in 2004? It has been Barroso. The guy you suggest is 'holding it together and a good guy'!

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:56 am

Elephant in the room: the prescribed medicine will hasten the patients death.

---------------
'Irwin Stelzer writes in today's Wall Street Journal that "the euro-zone's policy makers seem incapable of accepting two hard facts."

The first is that the overly indebted countries will have to default as Argentina did ... successive austerity programs are producing recessions and, perversely, higher deficit to GDP ratios.

The second is that absent fundamental reforms such as Mr. Berlusconi is proving too timid to propose, and massive privatization such as Greece is resisting, Club Med economies will shrink.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... -live.html

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 06 Sep 2011 5:28 am

From the same rolling story as above (as linked)

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21.27 Josef Ackermann, chief executive of Deutsche Bank, has warned that many European lenders would collapse if forced to book their losses on stricken sovereign bonds.

Numerous European banks would not survive having to revalue sovereign debt held on the banking book at market levels.

-----

So 'many European banks' are utilising Enron accounting eh? Says the head of DB no less? Lord help us!

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Postby aster » Tue, 06 Sep 2011 6:03 pm

Just one word: Switzerland :D

Seems like they will be pegged to the Euro for years to come...

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 06 Sep 2011 6:18 pm

aster wrote:Just one word: Switzerland :D

Seems like they will be pegged to the Euro for years to come...


Come on Aster be honest now :)

The only reason Switzerland is considering linking to the euro is because the euro area is it's main trading partner. Plus, the euro is proving about as reliable as a Weimar D-Mark and hence euro funds are flooding into CH making their economy uncompetitive.

Pegging would be the opposite of a vote of confidence in the euro, more like an act of economic necessity and desperation brought about by the wretched weakness of the euro itself.

edit to add:
ps.
You saw Merkel lost this weekend's state election in Mecklenburg- Western Pomerania, her home state? The German public are fed up with bailing out the rest of Europe. That's 5 state elections in a row that she has lost!

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:03 am

Well they got their peg, and the currency instantly dropped, what ...8%?

Holy cow, I'd have wanted to be on the right side of that one!

Got to admire the Swiss though, and their definitive action. The 'euros' could learn a lesson or two (but won't)...

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 07 Sep 2011 9:21 pm


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Postby aster » Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:07 pm

JR8 wrote:The only reason Switzerland is considering linking to the euro is because the euro area is it's main trading partner.


Um, yeah... and that's exactly why the UK should join the Euro.

JR8 wrote:Plus, the euro is proving about as reliable as a Weimar D-Mark and hence euro funds are flooding into CH making their economy uncompetitive.


It's not strictly about the Euro at all so no point in singling it out. It's about all other currencies in general, and how money is pouring into CHF as a result of nothing else looking attractive. Before you could switch back and forth between the Euro and USD, but now it seems that there is nowhere to run. :)

JR8 wrote:You saw Merkel lost this weekend's state election in Mecklenburg- Western Pomerania, her home state? The German public are fed up with bailing out the rest of Europe. That's 5 state elections in a row that she has lost!


Can you blame the people for not wanting to fund all the lazy sobs living by the Mediterranean at Germany's expense? :)

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Postby aster » Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:10 pm

JR8 wrote:Well they got their peg, and the currency instantly dropped, what ...8%?


Why is there a question mark there? The currency dropped EXACTLY how much the Swiss wanted it to. To the frigging penny in fact! Now that's what I call precision. :)

Interesting poker game here. Swiss going all in and waiting for the thieves around them (big, global banks) to call or fold. What do you think the world's biggest crooks will do next?

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:35 pm

aster wrote:Before you could switch back and forth between the Euro and USD, but now it seems that there is nowhere to run.
...
Um, yeah... and that's exactly why the UK should join the Euro.



Genius Aster, sheer genius :)


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