water damage in newly bought condo

Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.
Post Reply
User avatar
wwww
Regular
Regular
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:08 pm
Location: lah-lah-land

water damage in newly bought condo

Post by wwww » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 7:42 pm

Hi Guys,

I just got the keys to my new condo and noticed that there is a small humid stain at an outside wall in one of my common rooms. I must have overlooked this stain when inspecting the unit...

The damage seems to be old as the paint around the stain is falling off and I can already see the bare concrete. I suspect that the rainwater pipe that runs through the wall at that spot is cracked. Should I be worried about a permanent mold damage?

My contractor said that I should check with the condo management as they are responsible to fix and pay for it since it is an outside wall. Is this true? Should I talk to a lawyer? :(

Thank you for your insights.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16521
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: water damage in newly bought condo

Post by JR8 » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 9:19 pm

wwww wrote:Hi Guys,

I just got the keys to my new condo and noticed that there is a small humid stain at an outside wall in one of my common rooms. I must have overlooked this stain when inspecting the unit...

The damage seems to be old as the paint around the stain is falling off and I can already see the bare concrete. I suspect that the rainwater pipe that runs through the wall at that spot is cracked. Should I be worried about a permanent mold damage?

My contractor said that I should check with the condo management as they are responsible to fix and pay for it since it is an outside wall. Is this true? Should I talk to a lawyer? :(

Thank you for your insights.
It is the responsibility of condo management. I'd suggest making all communications to them via e-mail so that you have a written record.

p.s. I'm not entirely clear what you mean by 'common room', do you mean that it is a room shared with other people or neighbours? If that is so why are you concerned?

revhappy
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 9:16 pm

Re: water damage in newly bought condo

Post by revhappy » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:22 pm

JR8 wrote: p.s. I'm not entirely clear what you mean by 'common room', do you mean that it is a room shared with other people or neighbours? If that is so why are you concerned?
JR8, I cant believe you are asking that question. :shock:

In Singapore, a room with a bathroom attached is called a master room and one without is called common room. Nothing to do with whether its shared/rented out or not :)

Besides, he has mentioned that he has bought the condo, so even if its shared with others he has vested interests in it. :wink:

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16521
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: water damage in newly bought condo

Post by JR8 » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 12:22 am

revhappy wrote:
JR8 wrote: p.s. I'm not entirely clear what you mean by 'common room', do you mean that it is a room shared with other people or neighbours? If that is so why are you concerned?
JR8, I cant believe you are asking that question. :shock:

LOL :-D

In Singapore, a room with a bathroom attached is called a master room and one without is called common room. Nothing to do with whether its shared/rented out or not :)

Thanks for that, you learn something new every day! I have never heard the expression before, just 3-room, 4-room etc. I was assuming it meant a common room as in a communally used facility such as a condo gym or residents function room (I wasn't suggesting something communally shared within the condo).

Besides, he has mentioned that he has bought the condo, so even if its shared with others he has vested interests in it. :wink:

Yeah well see my previous para, and you'll get my confusion :). If you want to be pedantic one could say he has bought a leasehold interest. That arguably is more akin to a long term right to occupy, than ownership as such. [Don't get me going on a freehold in the UK, as it does not mean it is yours 'free and clear', because ultimately the Crown own all land! Hmmm wonder if Uncle Harry owns all land in SG :twisted: :)]

I'll tell you how it usually works in such circumstances in UK law, and that would probably be a basis for SG too. Of course you should read the lease, as it should be precisely detailed there.

Structures etc that are shared with other leaseholders such as roofs, foundations, lifts, sewer pipes, gyms, site office etc are not a part of the demised (owned by leaseholder/s) property, they are ‘common parts’, and their upkeep is the responsibility of the freeholder, who in turn will bill the leaseholders. Windows are a tricky one to predict. Sometimes they are considered part of the demised property and sometimes not. Sometimes the frames are not, but the glass is! In my patch of London the whole are usually not demised, so that means if you have to replace a whole window, your neighbours all have to part-fund it with you.

As for walls. Walls that are wholly internal to your property (i.e. on both sides) are in your demise and your responsibility. Walls that face the exterior of the building, or the stairwells, common parts etc. are for the purposes of the lease usually considered to be severed medially (think of the external etc facing walls being split into two vertical layers) with the internal half being demised and your responsibility, and the external half not being demised and hence the property and responsibility of the freeholder. That is why external damp is an issue for the management office.

The status re: external walls can be an issue in circumstances like rising damp. That is when in often older property the damp-proof course has degraded, cracked and is no longer effective. The result is that water ingresses up through the brickwork from the ground upwards, the exterior starts spalling (breaking down), and the interior plaster skim starts going mouldy and in time will start breaking up and away from the wall. The leaseholder is entitled to charge damp-proof work to the freeholder (and it gets on-charged to all leaseholders), but making good the interior plasterwork and painting is the responsibility of the leaseholder. I have known leaseholders try and get the entire job pinned on the freeholder. Nice try, but wrong.

The only variant I can think of to this is where damage to your interior walls has been caused by a neighbour, for example bathroom flood, or leakage from air-con in their unit. In that case they are responsible for the damage to the interior of your walls. Though if you happen to have them lined with panels of hand-loomed golden Italian silk I’ll say good luck to you!

HTH (and hope I’ve gone some way to rehabilitating myself RevH ;))


User avatar
ev-disinfection
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: water damage in newly bought condo

Post by ev-disinfection » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 1:37 am

wwww wrote:Hi Guys,

I just got the keys to my new condo and noticed that there is a small humid stain at an outside wall in one of my common rooms. I must have overlooked this stain when inspecting the unit...

The damage seems to be old as the paint around the stain is falling off and I can already see the bare concrete. I suspect that the rainwater pipe that runs through the wall at that spot is cracked. Should I be worried about a permanent mold damage?

My contractor said that I should check with the condo management as they are responsible to fix and pay for it since it is an outside wall. Is this true? Should I talk to a lawyer? :(

Thank you for your insights.
Hi wwww,
Would you mind posting a photo of the stain, so that the people here can comment on it,
and i guess that you are not in a new building, so how old is the building then?
There might not be a pipe in the walls for the pipe as you think, it might be from a external crack in the exterior wall or your balcony.

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8352
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:23 pm
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children

Re: water damage in newly bought condo

Post by nakatago » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 1:46 am

ev-disinfection wrote:
wwww wrote:Hi Guys,

I just got the keys to my new condo and noticed that there is a small humid stain at an outside wall in one of my common rooms. I must have overlooked this stain when inspecting the unit...

The damage seems to be old as the paint around the stain is falling off and I can already see the bare concrete. I suspect that the rainwater pipe that runs through the wall at that spot is cracked. Should I be worried about a permanent mold damage?

My contractor said that I should check with the condo management as they are responsible to fix and pay for it since it is an outside wall. Is this true? Should I talk to a lawyer? :(

Thank you for your insights.
Hi wwww,
Would you mind posting a photo of the stain, so that the people here can comment on it,
That kind of stuff is just like porn to you, huh? :lol:
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16521
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: water damage in newly bought condo

Post by JR8 » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 1:59 am

nakatago wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote: Hi wwww,
Would you mind posting a photo of the stain, so that the people here can comment on it,
That kind of stuff is just like porn to you, huh? :lol:

Haha! 'Oh yeah, oh god, oh yeah, oh god, send me some pictures baby!!' :wink: :lol:

Seriously though EV-D has to be resident mold/damp expert...

User avatar
wwww
Regular
Regular
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:08 pm
Location: lah-lah-land

Post by wwww » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 9:45 am

Thanks for your comments. Its calming to read that this is up to the condo management to take care of.

Alright here's the "porn":

http://cid-7c82a699d23ec154.photos.live ... ?nl=1&uc=2

The house is about 12 years old. I have checked the facade from outside but could not see any cracks whatsoever. However I have noticed that the pipe that drains the rain water from the roof runs through the area of stain number one.

Stain number one is still wet and the paint had totally disappeared as you can see in the picture.

I am not too sure about stain number two though. To me it looks like some cracks that have been fixed and now shine through the old paint job, but my contractor said that it was another water damage. Stain number one is at the adjoining wall on the left close to the floor, while stain number two is just below the ceiling. The AC unit was installed by a contractor hired by the previous owner back in 2007. Does this mean that they did a shitty job and it is not managements responsibility to fix it? :-|

I also noticed a slight mold smell when closing the window. I am wondering why the previous owners have never fixed it... :mad:

Again, all insights are highly welcome. :)
Last edited by wwww on Sun, 17 Apr 2011 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ev-disinfection
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Post by ev-disinfection » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 2:06 pm

wwww wrote:Thanks for your comments. Its calming to read that this is up to the condo management to take care of.

Alright here's the "porn":

http://cid-7c82a699d23ec154.photos.live ... ?nl=1&uc=2

The house is about 12 years old. I have checked the facade from outside but could not see any cracks whatsoever. However I have noticed that the pipe that drains the rain water from the roof runs through the area of stain number one.

Stain number one is still wet and the paint had totally disappeared as you can see in the picture.

I am not too sure about stain number two though. To me it looks like some cracks that have been fixed and now shine through the old paint job, but my contractor said that it was another water damage. Stain number one is at the adjoining wall on the left close to the floor, while stain number two is just below the ceiling.

I also noticed a slight mold smell when closing the window. I am wondering why the previous owners have never fixed it... :mad:

Again, all insights are highly welcome. :)
Interesting...
First of all, in the 1st pic, that is a air-condition unit casing, inside would contain 2 AC gas pipes and should also contain the AC drain pipe, and not the rainwater drain pipe (which would be a round pipe 6"-8" diameter). Will need you to take another photo of what is directly behind the wall of stain 1, which i am expecting to find a AC unit.
I suspect that the black insulation sheath covering the AC gas pipes in the 4" X 2" casing are in bad condition and needs to be changed or that the AC behind that wall is having a condensation problem.
_________________________________________________________
Ok for the 2nd pic, it looks like a water seepage from the external of the building, now some questions,
01, noticed that the stain gets worse on the top left of pic 2, is there a room on the left of pic 2?
02, How did you check the facade? are you on the first few floors?

If you are lucky, the exterior wall might have been fixed, and what is showing in pic 2, would just be stains from the past or from the remainder of moisture in the wall. Do not paint over the wall, till you can confirm it. I would put a spot light on, shining at that spot and if you can still feel moisture, it would mean there would still be a seepage from the exterior or the unit above.
__________________________________________________________
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

You showed me yours and i have to show you mine....
This photo is almost the same as your pic 2, except that it is still wet and behind that wall is not the exterior but another room, the AC room. (hospital staircase)

User avatar
wwww
Regular
Regular
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:08 pm
Location: lah-lah-land

Post by wwww » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 5:17 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:
wwww wrote:Thanks for your comments. Its calming to read that this is up to the condo management to take care of.

Alright here's the "porn":

http://cid-7c82a699d23ec154.photos.live ... ?nl=1&uc=2

The house is about 12 years old. I have checked the facade from outside but could not see any cracks whatsoever. However I have noticed that the pipe that drains the rain water from the roof runs through the area of stain number one.

Stain number one is still wet and the paint had totally disappeared as you can see in the picture.

I am not too sure about stain number two though. To me it looks like some cracks that have been fixed and now shine through the old paint job, but my contractor said that it was another water damage. Stain number one is at the adjoining wall on the left close to the floor, while stain number two is just below the ceiling.

I also noticed a slight mold smell when closing the window. I am wondering why the previous owners have never fixed it... :mad:

Again, all insights are highly welcome. :)
Interesting...
First of all, in the 1st pic, that is a air-condition unit casing, inside would contain 2 AC gas pipes and should also contain the AC drain pipe, and not the rainwater drain pipe (which would be a round pipe 6"-8" diameter). Will need you to take another photo of what is directly behind the wall of stain 1, which i am expecting to find a AC unit.
I suspect that the black insulation sheath covering the AC gas pipes in the 4" X 2" casing are in bad condition and needs to be changed or that the AC behind that wall is having a condensation problem.
_________________________________________________________
Ok for the 2nd pic, it looks like a water seepage from the external of the building, now some questions,
01, noticed that the stain gets worse on the top left of pic 2, is there a room on the left of pic 2?
02, How did you check the facade? are you on the first few floors?

If you are lucky, the exterior wall might have been fixed, and what is showing in pic 2, would just be stains from the past or from the remainder of moisture in the wall. Do not paint over the wall, till you can confirm it. I would put a spot light on, shining at that spot and if you can still feel moisture, it would mean there would still be a seepage from the exterior or the unit above.
__________________________________________________________
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

You showed me yours and i have to show you mine....
This photo is almost the same as your pic 2, except that it is still wet and behind that wall is not the exterior but another room, the AC room. (hospital staircase)

Very interesting insights. There really is a AC unit at the outside of stain 1, however, the AC unit is about two meters away from the stain. The rainwater drain pipe should also run through that wall in the stain area (I have checked where the drain pipe enters the wall from outside. Yes I am on second storey plus my service balcony is just next to the wall of stain 1 (first service balcony then AC unit right after) so I could check from outside. The AC unit was installed by a contractor back in 2007 (I still got the original invoice). Does this mean that it is the contractors fault and it is not up to the management to fix this? :?

For stain 2. Also interesting insights. I have checked yesterday as well as today but did not see any moisture on this wall. However, I will have to confirm with management on this. There is no room on the left hand side of stain two (but there is another unit above) both walls face the outside.

Thanks for your help...i owe you at least a large Tiger... 8-)

User avatar
ev-disinfection
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Post by ev-disinfection » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 6:50 pm

wwww wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:
wwww wrote:Thanks for your comments. Its calming to read that this is up to the condo management to take care of.

Alright here's the "porn":

http://cid-7c82a699d23ec154.photos.live ... ?nl=1&uc=2

The house is about 12 years old. I have checked the facade from outside but could not see any cracks whatsoever. However I have noticed that the pipe that drains the rain water from the roof runs through the area of stain number one.

Stain number one is still wet and the paint had totally disappeared as you can see in the picture.

I am not too sure about stain number two though. To me it looks like some cracks that have been fixed and now shine through the old paint job, but my contractor said that it was another water damage. Stain number one is at the adjoining wall on the left close to the floor, while stain number two is just below the ceiling.

I also noticed a slight mold smell when closing the window. I am wondering why the previous owners have never fixed it... :mad:

Again, all insights are highly welcome. :)
Interesting...
First of all, in the 1st pic, that is a air-condition unit casing, inside would contain 2 AC gas pipes and should also contain the AC drain pipe, and not the rainwater drain pipe (which would be a round pipe 6"-8" diameter). Will need you to take another photo of what is directly behind the wall of stain 1, which i am expecting to find a AC unit.
I suspect that the black insulation sheath covering the AC gas pipes in the 4" X 2" casing are in bad condition and needs to be changed or that the AC behind that wall is having a condensation problem.
_________________________________________________________
Ok for the 2nd pic, it looks like a water seepage from the external of the building, now some questions,
01, noticed that the stain gets worse on the top left of pic 2, is there a room on the left of pic 2?
02, How did you check the facade? are you on the first few floors?

If you are lucky, the exterior wall might have been fixed, and what is showing in pic 2, would just be stains from the past or from the remainder of moisture in the wall. Do not paint over the wall, till you can confirm it. I would put a spot light on, shining at that spot and if you can still feel moisture, it would mean there would still be a seepage from the exterior or the unit above.
__________________________________________________________

Very interesting insights. There really is a AC unit at the outside of stain 1, however, the AC unit is about two meters away from the stain. The rainwater drain pipe should also run through that wall in the stain area (I have checked where the drain pipe enters the wall from outside. Yes I am on second storey plus my service balcony is just next to the wall of stain 1 (first service balcony then AC unit right after) so I could check from outside. The AC unit was installed by a contractor back in 2007 (I still got the original invoice). Does this mean that it is the contractors fault and it is not up to the management to fix this? :?

Is the AC unit 2m above where the opposite stain is? if not, then the case would have to be embedded in the wall, and condensation can happen, and cause the stain 1.

Contractor would not have any liability, as it has been 4 years + after he had installed the AC. If he was a good / responsible guy, he would go and have a look. But don't have your hopes too high. And management would not do anything too, as it is in your unit.


For stain 2. Also interesting insights. I have checked yesterday as well as today but did not see any moisture on this wall. However, I will have to confirm with management on this. There is no room on the left hand side of stain two (but there is another unit above) both walls face the outside.

You would have to wait for a week after a heavy downpour, to notice any moisture, if there was something wrong with the wall

Thanks for your help...i owe you at least a large Tiger... 8-)

You will have to contact me to arrange a time for the tiger :cool:

User avatar
wwww
Regular
Regular
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:08 pm
Location: lah-lah-land

Post by wwww » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 8:55 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:
wwww wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote: Interesting...
First of all, in the 1st pic, that is a air-condition unit casing, inside would contain 2 AC gas pipes and should also contain the AC drain pipe, and not the rainwater drain pipe (which would be a round pipe 6"-8" diameter). Will need you to take another photo of what is directly behind the wall of stain 1, which i am expecting to find a AC unit.
I suspect that the black insulation sheath covering the AC gas pipes in the 4" X 2" casing are in bad condition and needs to be changed or that the AC behind that wall is having a condensation problem.
_________________________________________________________
Ok for the 2nd pic, it looks like a water seepage from the external of the building, now some questions,
01, noticed that the stain gets worse on the top left of pic 2, is there a room on the left of pic 2?
02, How did you check the facade? are you on the first few floors?

If you are lucky, the exterior wall might have been fixed, and what is showing in pic 2, would just be stains from the past or from the remainder of moisture in the wall. Do not paint over the wall, till you can confirm it. I would put a spot light on, shining at that spot and if you can still feel moisture, it would mean there would still be a seepage from the exterior or the unit above.
__________________________________________________________

Very interesting insights. There really is a AC unit at the outside of stain 1, however, the AC unit is about two meters away from the stain. The rainwater drain pipe should also run through that wall in the stain area (I have checked where the drain pipe enters the wall from outside. Yes I am on second storey plus my service balcony is just next to the wall of stain 1 (first service balcony then AC unit right after) so I could check from outside. The AC unit was installed by a contractor back in 2007 (I still got the original invoice). Does this mean that it is the contractors fault and it is not up to the management to fix this? :?

Is the AC unit 2m above where the opposite stain is? if not, then the case would have to be embedded in the wall, and condensation can happen, and cause the stain 1.

Contractor would not have any liability, as it has been 4 years + after he had installed the AC. If he was a good / responsible guy, he would go and have a look. But don't have your hopes too high. And management would not do anything too, as it is in your unit.


The main AC main unit is outside and attached to the wall (with a metal bracket - will post a pic of it tomorrow) on the same height as the stain but roughly 1-2 meters on the left...does this make sense? I guess I will have to check with management first. Just to clarify, when you mentioned the AC casing unit before, did you refer to the tiny box in the middle of the stain, right? I am very tempted to remove the it and have a peek inside...

For stain 2. Also interesting insights. I have checked yesterday as well as today but did not see any moisture on this wall. However, I will have to confirm with management on this. There is no room on the left hand side of stain two (but there is another unit above) both walls face the outside.

You would have to wait for a week after a heavy downpour, to notice any moisture, if there was something wrong with the wall

Thanks for your help...i owe you at least a large Tiger... 8-)

You will have to contact me to arrange a time for the tiger :cool:

Let me know when... :)

User avatar
ev-disinfection
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Post by ev-disinfection » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 10:00 pm

wwww wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:
wwww wrote:
Very interesting insights. There really is a AC unit at the outside of stain 1, however, the AC unit is about two meters away from the stain. The rainwater drain pipe should also run through that wall in the stain area (I have checked where the drain pipe enters the wall from outside. Yes I am on second storey plus my service balcony is just next to the wall of stain 1 (first service balcony then AC unit right after) so I could check from outside. The AC unit was installed by a contractor back in 2007 (I still got the original invoice). Does this mean that it is the contractors fault and it is not up to the management to fix this? :?

Is the AC unit 2m above where the opposite stain is? if not, then the case would have to be embedded in the wall, and condensation can happen, and cause the stain 1.

Contractor would not have any liability, as it has been 4 years + after he had installed the AC. If he was a good / responsible guy, he would go and have a look. But don't have your hopes too high. And management would not do anything too, as it is in your unit.


The main AC main unit is outside and attached to the wall (with a metal bracket - will post a pic of it tomorrow) on the same height as the stain but roughly 1-2 meters on the left...does this make sense? I guess I will have to check with management first. Just to clarify, when you mentioned the AC casing unit before, did you refer to the tiny box in the middle of the stain, right? I am very tempted to remove the it and have a peek inside...

Oh, You mean the main compressor on the metal bracket, so it is 1-2 m to the left, is there a ledge or window opening where the contractor can access to the compressor? if yes, that is the reason why they install the compressor there, instead of just behind stain 1.
Are there casings leading to the compressor or are there just a bunch of flexible pipes connected to the compressor?
Ok, from the casings in stain 1 to the exterior compressor, the contractor must make a hole through, that could be possibly where the rain water comes in....
The main rainwater pipe that probably runs from the roof all the way down to the ground floor, would have nothing to do with water coming into your internal walls, as these pipes would be attached to the exterior walls with brackets.
Oh, and if you open the 4" X 2" casings, with a flat head screwdriver, and see mold and algae in there (i expect 4 years of mold / algae in there), close it back up, as you do not want the mold to spread into the stain 1 room and infect it.
and as the AC was done by the previous owner, the management will not do anything.

--------------------------------------------------------------
For stain 2. Also interesting insights. I have checked yesterday as well as today but did not see any moisture on this wall. However, I will have to confirm with management on this. There is no room on the left hand side of stain two (but there is another unit above) both walls face the outside.

You would have to wait for a week after a heavy downpour, to notice any moisture, if there was something wrong with the wall

Thanks for your help...i owe you at least a large Tiger... 8-)

You will have to contact me to arrange a time for the tiger :cool:

Let me know when... :)

User avatar
ev-disinfection
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Post by ev-disinfection » Mon, 18 Apr 2011 9:48 pm

Where is today's porn? :(

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Staying, Living in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests