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British Anti-cuts Demonstrations in London

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aster
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Postby aster » Sat, 02 Apr 2011 12:21 pm

BillyB wrote:For the second time, what am I dodging?


How about just about everything, lol? :)

Billy Boy, you can continue on with the Kindergarten song where the words never change, but so far we've seen zero facts about how the ordinary person would be better off by his country committing economic and political suicide by ejecting itself from the EU.

Oh, and please enlighten us how this would benefit trade too, when everyone here knows the opposite is true. I'm just dying for a bit more comical entertainment provided by you for the benefit of everyone here. :D

Are you even aware how British exports to the EU compare to the rest of the world??? How huge and important it is to the British economy??? And you would want to disrupt this by some paranoid and pointless move to suddenly remove the UK from the single market?

Go check the stats and come back to us when you actually have a clue.

BillyB wrote:blow up dolls don't tend to argue back so much.....


So you switched... just because you needed someone to talk to? And why exactly are you sharing this with us? :)

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Postby BillyB » Sat, 02 Apr 2011 1:03 pm

aster wrote:
BillyB wrote:For the second time, what am I dodging?


How about just about everything, lol? :)

Billy Boy, you can continue on with the Kindergarten song where the words never change, but so far we've seen zero facts about how the ordinary person would be better off by his country committing economic and political suicide by ejecting itself from the EU.

Oh, and please enlighten us how this would benefit trade too, when everyone here knows the opposite is true. I'm just dying for a bit more comical entertainment provided by you for the benefit of everyone here. :D

Are you even aware how British exports to the EU compare to the rest of the world??? How huge and important it is to the British economy??? And you would want to disrupt this by some paranoid and pointless move to suddenly remove the UK from the single market?

Go check the stats and come back to us when you actually have a clue.

BillyB wrote:blow up dolls don't tend to argue back so much.....


So you switched... just because you needed someone to talk to? And why exactly are you sharing this with us? :)


I have never talked about the U.K withdrawing from the E.U you donut. Read my posts - my arguments are all based around avoiding using a single currency and the economic implications of being locked into a universal, one size fits all system that most economies cannot tolerate, experience wild fluctuations in all rates to align themselves with a centrally flawed policy, and hence we are seeing the effects of this with the past and current bailouts.

Over and out......

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:33 pm

aster wrote:
JR8 wrote:p.s. If credit is due to the Germans, why would the majority of them vote to leave the EU if they were given a vote?


Aster:
...’I think given a vote they would prefer something else: kicking the likes of Greece out of the EU.

Top marks for successfully ignoring almost every point I made, and then giving non-answers to just these two :roll:

It is disingenuous suggesting kicking out Greece, because as you well know it is never going to happen. If the EU were simply a practical project regarding exchange rates, borders, trade and so on then there would be practical mechanisms by which member countries could adjust the terms of their participation. But it’s not. From it’s inception the EU has been about creating a federal superstate to rival the USA, forced bit by bit via stealth and lies onto it’s unwilling citizens. Given that it is a political project, it has no reverse gear. The politicians continue to pretend that the EU and euro are fantastic successes while rapidly running out of bandages to staunch the flow of blood. Jean-Claude Junker (PM of Luxembourg, and the chap tasked with putting together the euro700 billioin bail-out fund (surely a sign of the success of the EU lol)) said just last week "The basic principle for me ... is that no country in Europe will be abandoned or left to fall, because Europe only succeeds when we are one."


Aster:
...’Germany is also benefiting greatly by being part of the EU, but I'm sure that people are pissed off with countries like Greece living on "borrowed time" and expecting Germany to foot the tab. The word "bailout" surely brings about stomach convulsions over there amongst the general public...

Have you ever heard the expression, ‘The EU project is a French jockey riding a German donkey’? Well that is why Germany and France are doing well from the Project, the ECB set interest rates that are appropriate for France and Germany and to hell with anyone else. You would have to be a fool (or a politician) not to have foreseen that you cannot tie together multiple disparate economies into a single currency/interest rate. What fiscal brilliance the Germans and French had in not foreseeing that halving interest rates overnight in peripheral economies was going to case them to massively overheat. And hey, what a surprise, wind forward a decade from the creation of the euro and it’s happening and it continues! Never one to miss making an opportunity from a crisis, they’re now calling for even closer integration and budget and tax harmonisation. The latter being one of the final (although rather blunt) tools a country can use to influence it’s economy. They should have had budget harmonisation before launching the euro, but they couldn’t, as back then they were still pretending that the euro was simply all about saving time and money buying your holiday money, rather than heading towards a political superstate. Sixty years of the same ‘ol same ‘ol. If it weren’t such a complete disaster I suppose one might laugh at the greed, vanity and stupidity of the politicians driving it ever onwards.

As I previously noted, the reason that the Irish are being charged punitive interest rates on the loans forced on them by Germany, made in order to save the Portugese domino toppling onto Spain, was because the Irish rates of corporation tax are about half or less of those in Germany and France. That is why so many companies moved to Ireland in recent years. The French and Germans cannot compete, and so they are now flagrantly punishing the Irish to try and blackmail them into raising their corporation tax to less competitive levels. Dealing with the EU is like dealing with the mafia!

Did you know that Walmart quit trading in Germany after circa only one year? They did so because the courts ruled their pricing was anti-competitive, i.e. they were too competitive for the locals to have a hope of competing, and hence they were shown the door!

And yes you’re right the German donkey (i.e. it’s citizens) have had enough of funding the EU bail-outs, and that is precisely why Merkel’s coalition is on it’s knees as I write.



JR8 wrote:As opposed to forcing all Europeans who would never vote for the EU in the first place to pay for propping up their toxic and primitive project.


Aster:
...'Actually it's the best thing to have happened to Europe over the last decades, and you'll hardly find a sensible person who would want their country to leave the EU. Sensible people aren't suicidal in nature. The benefits for people are plain and obvious, and likewise the positives for trade and commerce are equally transparent.


What bizarre statements! I can almost imagine you trying to convince people that night is day and black is in fact white. The EU was a plan for the post-war era, and now 60 years later they are pretty close to getting to the desired end-point of a United States of Europe. Problem is the world has moved on, a lot. Companies and individuals are now much more mobile, and will go where opportunity lies. HSBC is on the cusp on moving it’s HQ from London to Honk Kong. Ask yourself why? (it is because they pay as much in UK taxes as they make in the UK!). If you were to launch say a small computer-graphics start-up how can any country in the EU compete with the dynamism and ease of doing business of somewhere like Singapore or Hong Kong? One example: the EU Working Time Directive, which makes it illegal to work more than 48 hours a week. Or how about the labour laws in swathes of the EU that makes it virtually impossible to sack anybody!

The EU is the ‘best thing’ to have happened for politicians, as it more or less guarantees them post-national-politics tax-free retirement sinecures for them and their families. On the flip side for countries like Greece, Ireland, Portugal, and Spain the EU has been the worst thing that could have happened to them, it has turned them into zombie nations, broken and unable to do anything to repair themselves. Who next after Spain, apparently Italy and Belgium. It’s one hell of a disaster we’re observing here isn’t it!?


Aster:
...’'you'll hardly find a sensible person who would want their country to leave the EU’


Bizarre! How do you square this opinion with the fact that France and the Netherlands (supposedly) the most europhile countries both voted against the EU Constitution, the Irish got bullied to a yes vote on their second go, and no other member state was given a vote (because a No vote was inevitable)? Your propaganda is blown clean out of the water by this straight forward article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscepticism
Or how do you account for the fact that UKIP (primary policy: Leave the EU) came second in the 2009 European elections beating both Labour and the LibDems?)


Aster:
...’Sensible people aren't suicidal in nature.’

Spoken like a true politician! EU membership or suicide? Funny how Norway manages to be in the top-3 for quality of life year in year out, and they manage that without being in the EU.

Aster:
...’The benefits for people are plain and obvious, and likewise the positives for trade and commerce are equally transparent.’

So why do so many want to leave then? The costs of the lumbering bureaucracy outweigh any commercial benefits, and most people do not wish to be ruled by a European superstate (I note that you do an ‘Edward Heath’ and bang on about trade and commerce, but you never ever refer to the politics and original ambitions of the Project). You’re trying to sell people a Proton by persuading them it is in fact a Porsche! Do you not see, these are precisely the kind of untruths that people get from the EU, and they’ve simply had enough of them.

Aster:
...’Ask anyone about the economic impact of reverting to borders, tariffs, limits, and other trade inhibitors...

Most won’t know, but then I imagine that neither do you. Meanwhile I still think I’d prefer Norway and Switzerland’s ‘suicidal’ death-march of non-membership

Aster:
...’then ask them to imagine a US divided like this... and the only cop-out answer they'll mumble will have nothing to do with economics but will simply be a one-line, nonsensical response about cultural differences or the fact that "we still hate each other". :)

Your analogy with the US has previously been debunked.
It is apparent that you do not have a very high view of people who are anti-EU! Well, as you will see I’ve managed to type a few more lines than I had intended, and certainly a few one-liners that debunk your propaganda.

Pray tell what is your interest in doing such a zealous sales-job on the ‘glories’ of the EU



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Postby aster » Sun, 03 Apr 2011 12:48 am

BillyB wrote:my arguments are all based around avoiding using a single currency


Riiiiight, so you've gone from blindly opposing the EU to just opposing the Euro currency now? At least that's a start and a step in the right direction...

As far as monetary policy is concerned, you still need to drop those funny views about retaining "control" over one's currency. Japan is a huge economy, it needed a weaker Yen to prop up it's economy... the gov't made a massive intervention to depreciate the currency... and what happened? It got even stronger.

Same thing with the Swiss Franc. The Swiss made a massive move to stem the rise of the Franc to new heights... only to see their attempts bear no effect whatsoever.

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Postby BillyB » Sun, 03 Apr 2011 11:04 am

aster wrote:
BillyB wrote:my arguments are all based around avoiding using a single currency


Riiiiight, so you've gone from blindly opposing the EU to just opposing the Euro currency now? At least that's a start and a step in the right direction...

As far as monetary policy is concerned, you still need to drop those funny views about retaining "control" over one's currency. Japan is a huge economy, it needed a weaker Yen to prop up it's economy... the gov't made a massive intervention to depreciate the currency... and what happened? It got even stronger.

Same thing with the Swiss Franc. The Swiss made a massive move to stem the rise of the Franc to new heights... only to see their attempts bear no effect whatsoever.


No, I'll correct you for the 5th time. I don't agree with the E.U for a number of reasons. Most of which are irrelevant to this discussion and personal to my own views. We are entitled to have our own view on things - that is what democracy represents. I'm anti-euro for a number of reasons, of which I can support and present a logical and real-life argument for.

My points (how many times do I need to explain this to you) are based around the Euro and my real life working experience of it. I'm not some academic thinking I know everything about every single political, market theme on every Country on the map. I know my limitations and stick to them.

I used to be a sell-side and then buy-side analyst and write notes/investment recommendations based on Euro and Asian banking stocks. Thats my scenario. I dissect companies and then integrate a macro level scenario and present a recommendation based on fact - I'm not a speculator. Everything I use has a source that can be verified and is universally disclosed.

If you want to continue to pass judgement and get personal and insinuate that I don't know what I am talking about then go ahead. I'm used to talking to jumped up academics - mostly reporters or equity sales guys fresh out of a top school thinking they can do something different to change the shape of the banking industry or giving me textbook quoted reasons to trade with them and buy their equity ideas - who have all the views and opinions and academic knowledge that money can buy, but ask them to relate the information to a real-life scenario and they haven't got a clue.

I'm not on some d*ck measuring mission here. I put my points across and if you choose not to agree then support your argument as to why. I don't ram my political or market views down everyone's throat on this forum. This post was initially related to the British demonstrations (being a Brit myself I thought it was disgusting behaviour) and you hijacked the thread and have continued to manipulate it to drive it in a direction obviously close to your own heart - The E.U.

You continue to present wishy washy, child like statements that a fresh grad would make. And I note when someone drills down a little deeper - like JR8 did in his very well written previous post - surprise surprise, you ignore the post and get back to something out of context like Japan. WTF has Japan got to do with the Euro discussion? Don't tell me Japan exports to Europe and there is a currency pair so its inextricably linked.

Your statement on Switzerland is about the only accurate thing you've said. Credit where credit is due. But to get the full 5 points on your GCSE question paper could you 'give reasons as to why'??

Aster, like many people whom I have had the unpleasantness of knowing and working in some context with - you are a jack of all trades and a master of absolutely none.

My recommendation is 'Hold' your opinions to preserve some credibility.

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Postby aster » Sat, 09 Apr 2011 9:05 am

BillyB wrote:
aster wrote:
BillyB wrote:my arguments are all based around avoiding using a single currency


I don't agree with the E.U for a number of reasons. Most of which are irrelevant to this discussion and personal to my own views. We are entitled to have our own view on things - that is what democracy represents. I'm anti-euro for a number of reasons, of which I can support and present a logical and real-life argument for.

My points (how many times do I need to explain this to you) are based around the Euro and my real life working experience of it. I'm not some academic thinking I know everything about every single political, market theme on every Country on the map. I know my limitations and stick to them.


There we go, a personal grudge against the second largest reserve currency in the world is all there's to it. :D Nice of you to finally admit so much because most of the other reasons you presented were complete BS.

"Control over one's currency." That was the funniest one of all. Here's an interesting article for you:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/37315/2 ... ention.htm

So much for control... Like I said, you either join a major currency or you end up handing over control to the shylocks out there.


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