British Anti-cuts Demonstrations in London

[JR8]

Is that what the banks are feeding the gullible idiots out there?

Answer me this: why given a free vote will all citizens of the EU (excl Estonia) reject being a part of the EU? And why will the 'democratic' EU nations not give their citizens such a vote?

The EU is shit? If someone doesn't like it then they can FO from Europe and live in Madagascar for all I care.

As I suggested your views are marxist. Has democracy ever had a look-in in your world view?


Europe will be a meaningless bunch of dinky little countries if not for the EU and a single currency, single market, etc.

Jeez you're really fully signed up to The Project aren't you! Dinky little countries like Switzerland and Norway = amongst the richest on earth? Dinky little sountries like Singapore and Brunei who manage without an equivalent of a federal EU?

As for bail-outs, leave it to the Germans. They foot most of the bill.

Sad, so sad.

[aster]

And your reference to the Germans is clearly based on no solid information. Why would we want them to manage us?

I meant the currency. It's best to join the single European currency, AND be happy that the Germans have their fingers on the buttons. Because when it comes to the issue of currency, they are the most solid nation out there.

The other alternative is to keep a small, weak local currency, which is in no way run by the Bank of England but can be kicked around in whatever direction the shylocks please...

Oh and by the way, I'm the last person who you could consider to be pro-German. Trust me.

[ksl]

And your reference to the Germans is clearly based on no solid information. Why would we want them to manage us?

I meant the currency. It's best to join the single European currency, AND be happy that the Germans have their fingers on the buttons. Because when it comes to the issue of currency, they are the most solid nation out there.

The other alternative is to keep a small, weak local currency, which is in no way run by the Bank of England but can be kicked around in whatever direction the shylocks please...

Oh and by the way, I'm the last person who you could consider to be pro-German. Trust me.

Oh and by the way, I'm the last person who you could consider to be pro-German. Trust me. :

So who's going to eliminate the vermin! SMS has plenty of experience

[JR8]

And your reference to the Germans is clearly based on no solid information. Why would we want them to manage us?

I meant the currency. It's best to join the single European currency, AND be happy that the Germans have their fingers on the buttons. Because when it comes to the issue of currency, they are the most solid nation out there.

The other alternative is to keep a small, weak local currency, which is in no way run by the Bank of England but can be kicked around in whatever direction the shylocks please...

Oh and by the way, I'm the last person who you could consider to be pro-German. Trust me.

How much are the EU paying you to spume this nonsense?

[aster]

Not as much as the shylocks are paying to brainwash the sheep with this childish, anti-EU diatribe that even stands on the opposite site of common sense.

2+2=4 but if you want to argue otherwise then be my guest...

[BillyB]

Not as much as the shylocks are paying to brainwash the sheep with this childish, anti-EU diatribe that even stands on the opposite site of common sense.

2+2=4 but if you want to argue otherwise then be my guest...

I thought this post was done and dusted!!

Aster, you keep making loose references and sweeping statements without supporting your points. I really don't understand your obsession with brainwashing, think you have been watching too many Youtube videos, but I am interested to know and understand why you think the E.U is beneficial. Help us all out here and give us something factual rather than just fanning the flames!

[aster]

You seem to be dancing to the negativity tune without any facts or logic to back you up. And then you run away from simple questions.

I've already mentioned several reasons. Single market. Ease of trade within EU, no customs limitations - increased trade/competition. Common currency. Agricultural policy. Transparency. Legal framework. Etc., etc., etc.

Or wait, do you mean from your (the peoples') perspective? Can live and work across the EU without work permits and other nonsense. Can study in other EU countries at local rates. Can travel conveniently, without borders. Brilliant when it comes to consumer rights, setting standards, etc.

So back to my original question which you ran away from seemingly due to lack of arguments, do you think the US would be better off if every state had its own currency, if Americans could not work freely in other states but needed work permits, if there were customs duties in place for cross-state trade, if there were borders between states and Americans needed passports to move between them?

I'll be amused to see you support the above.

[JayCee]

I don't get the analogy, America is a country with a common culture amongst it's states and has always had the same currency, Europe is a continent with very different cultures amongst member countries which until recently had their own currencies, so it's pointless to debate it as you're comparing apples with oranges.

JR8 makes the best point in this whole argument - no-one in the EU (other than poorer countries like Spain who just take take take) actually wants to be there, perfect example was the French and the Ducth voting against the constitution. Why is that?

[BillyB]

You seem to be dancing to the negativity tune without any facts or logic to back you up. And then you run away from simple questions.

I've already mentioned several reasons. Single market. Ease of trade within EU, no customs limitations - increased trade/competition. Common currency. Agricultural policy. Transparency. Legal framework. Etc., etc., etc.

Or wait, do you mean from your (the peoples') perspective? Can live and work across the EU without work permits and other nonsense. Can study in other EU countries at local rates. Can travel conveniently, without borders. Brilliant when it comes to consumer rights, setting standards, etc.

So back to my original question which you ran away from seemingly due to lack of arguments, do you think the US would be better off if every state had its own currency, if Americans could not work freely in other states but needed work permits, if there were customs duties in place for cross-state trade, if there were borders between states and Americans needed passports to move between them?

I'll be amused to see you support the above.

Read my points on the thread, I haven't dodged anything.

You're quoting all the positive points about the E.U straight out of a GCSE textbook, I'd come back to this post when you can form your own points and bring some originality and real life experience of the thread.

I ignored the question on American because it is absolutely pointless, irrelevant, and shows a lack of intelligence. I was hoping someone from the U.S would be able to tell you to stop being a donut.

One question I do have - If the E.U holds so many opportunities, why do choose to contribute nothing to it and live in Singapore?

[aster]

Read my points on the thread, I haven't dodged anything.

Oh, just every single argument that comes your way and to which you have no answer to apart from childless drivel.

You're quoting all the positive points about the E.U straight out of a GCSE textbook, I'd come back to this post when you can form your own points and bring some originality and real life experience of the thread.

Just another cop-out answer when you can't counter anything because it would truly be amusing to deny such facts. You're the one with zero originality - you're just parroting the sheep with their pointless yapping with no sense of reality or perspective. Shouldn't you be out there rioting in the streets of London or backpacking around the world to where the next G10 meeting is taking place.

Tied yourself to a tree lately?

I ignored the question on American because it is absolutely pointless, irrelevant, and shows a lack of intelligence.

No, you ignored it because you see how completely idiotic your stance is, so you decided it's best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. It's the only smart thing you've done in this thread.

One question I do have - If the E.U holds so many opportunities, why do choose to contribute nothing to it and live in Singapore?

Yet another childish comment. How old are you, 12?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Frankly, as a bystander, and a Yank, I'm having a hard time understanding the reference to a country that has always been a whole (with the exception of a couple of years during the civil war, 150 years or so ago). We were never a collection of separate countries with separate economies and currencies so using the US in any type of comparison with the EU is fruitless and moot. You cannot compare apples & oranges. It's sort of takes the legitimacy out of one's position. As far as either position is concerned, I don't have a viewpoint to be honest - just that the arguments should be based on valid points and comparisons.

You would be better placed to use the old USSR as that WAS a collection of individual republics that eventually, albeit through force, became a Union of sorts. And we've seen what eventually happened there.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yet another childish comment. How old are you, 12?

The debate was going well, so let's not descend into name calling. Can't win points that way.

[aster]

Back in the day even the US was quite diverse culturally, for instance German was widely used in households in the Pacific Northwest. English forced every other language out because it's such an adaptable and flexible language - it's the language's intrinsic qualities that make it so strong and dominating. Melvyn Bragg does a great job at portraying how the English language cemented its position in the US: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventure-Engli ... 340829931/

Back then there were certain interest groups too, and at one point the Civil War brought those events to a culminating point. Today we only have the wackos in Montana flying the US flag upside down in similar fashion to today's EU-haters. On a side note apparently Texas has the legal right to leave the US at its own discretion, though I'm sure any such political move would be quashed instantly...

Economically there are huge differences too, and Washington vs Idaho is a huge contrast when it comes to industries and economic reliance.

A unified Europe that has evolved over the last few decades has done a lot of good, not just from the corporate perspective but also from the POV of the continent's citizens. From education to work, from agriculture to telecoms, things have moved in the right direction and those are just plain facts.

P.S. In fact when it comes to education the EU appears to be more of a single entity than the US even, where going to college "out of state" can mean paying the same high fees that foreigners need to cough up.

[JR8]

Frankly, as a bystander, and a Yank, I'm having a hard time understanding the reference to a country that has always been a whole (with the exception of a couple of years during the civil war, 150 years or so ago). We were never a collection of separate countries with separate economies and currencies so using the US in any type of comparison with the EU is fruitless and moot. You cannot compare apples & oranges. It's sort of takes the legitimacy out of one's position. As far as either position is concerned, I don't have a viewpoint to be honest - just that the arguments should be based on valid points and comparisons.

You would be better placed to use the old USSR as that WAS a collection of individual republics that eventually, albeit through force, became a Union of sorts. And we've seen what eventually happened there.

Yes I agree the USSR is a better comparison to the EU. Maybe that is why you will see some Europeans referring to living in the EUSSR. Top-down, hated, big-state marxist bureaucracy that has it's tentacles into every aspect of your life. Run by untouchables on tax-free six figure salaries.

The EU is a sham, a neolithic vanity exercise that attempts to address Germany's proclivity to constantly invade it's neighbours by taxing the hell out of 300 million people, and we are currently witnessing it's inevitable slow-motion implosion.

Oh look... there goes Portugal, sacrificed so that Germany could maintain a low interest rate policy (as were Greece and Ireland). Bailing out Portugal is going to cost every UK household £350... and we're not even in the euro FFS.

If the EU is so great, why is it so reviled?

[ksl]

America is a country with a common culture amongst it's states

Sorry Jaycee I don't agree on this, at all. America was fortunate enough to have many immigrants fight for their rights of today.

Though Mexicans and other Latins still have their own culture though the USA dominate and try to control it, it does have great difficulty, that Europe never get to know about. Slave labour is still a current issue in the states, as it is in UK since walmart took over and other American owned business, not that i'm blaming them, as its a door into Europe.

Britain sold us all out to the Americans, Arabs, and anyone else who would pay long ago, politicians of the past had only one thing in common, greasing their own paths to wealth, at the expense of the British people.

JR8 is right we could give the people what they want quite easy. But they have to suffer the damage now that's been done.

Somewhere up there in parliament many balls are lacking, to correct the problems of UK, becuase of a back lash. But it needs to be done with an Iron fist...ASBO's are out, bring back the rack and lets go hunting Round em up and send them out to the middle east to be converts, I'm sure a taste of Islamic law will work a treat.