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ksl
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Postby ksl » Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:29 pm

nakatago wrote:Just so people can put things in perspective, here's a handy radiation dosage chart from xkcd: http://xkcd.com/radiation/
That's handy, I read somewhere that 1 CAT scan takes 7 years to get out of the body.

Problem with this danger is you cannot see, smell, taste or feel it as it's absorbed! The accumulation effect must be also have it's dangers!

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Postby franky-MS » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 9:36 am

Colleagues from the german Company SIEMENS have been flied- out already in a very early stage of the catastrophe in Japan. And this should not be for nothing. Today you can read, that suddenly food- contermination is found in Japan, also in Taiwan. Safe? Are you joking? Nobody of the officials will tell you to evacuate Japan? Like they did not tell to evacuate Europe. You will find the radiation in milk, meat, fish and salads. These have been the last days of the 3rd strongest economy, I`m afraid. Let`s see, what will touch here in Singapore. There are already calculations regarding Singapore`s exposure to the radiation clouds...
Let`s hope the Best, but it does not look to be a simple local problem. The problem is, the authorities will tell you- in about 20 years...

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:30 pm

franky-MS wrote:There are already calculations regarding Singapore`s exposure to the radiation clouds...
Let`s hope the Best, but it does not look to be a simple local problem. The problem is, the authorities will tell you- in about 20 years...

If the authorities are reasonable then they would be probably right. People have clear tendency to panic hearing certain words of the background they typically do not understand. You seem to be a good example of the said category.

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Postby earthfriendly » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:51 pm

"I am honored to be here, living in Japan at this time. To witness the honorable and stoic manner in which the Japanese are responding to this Crisis. If they have only a single rice ball and some tea, they will divide it, giving the larger piece to another, and say in unison "itedakimasu!" (thank you for what I receive") "

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Postby prkravi » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 2:02 pm

[quote="franky-MS"] Let`s see, what will touch here in Singapore. There are already calculations regarding Singapore`s exposure to the radiation clouds...
Let`s hope the Best, but it does not look to be a simple local problem. [/quote]

Pack the bags and go to Mars?

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Postby Plavt » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 3:44 pm

franky-MS wrote:Colleagues from the german Company SIEMENS have been flied- out already in a very early stage of the catastrophe in Japan. And this should not be for nothing. Today you can read, that suddenly food- contermination is found in Japan, also in Taiwan. Safe? Are you joking? Nobody of the officials will tell you to evacuate Japan? Like they did not tell to evacuate Europe. You will find the radiation in milk, meat, fish and salads. These have been the last days of the 3rd strongest economy, I`m afraid. Let`s see, what will touch here in Singapore. There are already calculations regarding Singapore`s exposure to the radiation clouds...
Let`s hope the Best, but it does not look to be a simple local problem. The problem is, the authorities will tell you- in about 20 years...


While there is truth in this it is prudent to remember two-thirds of Japan's food needs are produced elsewhere; most notably China and the US, the country's topography makes it impractical if not impossible for Japan to feed itself. To what degree the situation around Fukushima will have nationally is debatable to say the least in terms of food contaniation that is.

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Postby revhappy » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 3:55 pm

My wife's relative who lived and worked in Tokyo have just decided to leave Japan for good and have been transferred to the Mumbai branch of his office.

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Postby ev-disinfection » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 5:25 pm

The Japan disaster will affect the launch of the IPAD 2, because a large % of rechargeable batteries are made in the Sendal area.

The world is so fragile, 1 big disaster and Japan won't be able to cope, if something were to happen to our water supply, then we won't be able to cope....... some countries have not be able to feed itself for many years now.

So i say, slow down on increasing the population, go back to farming for food (Animals / Plants), have a worldwide standardized material for building (too much waste there), stop making things / products that are thrown away (example- HandPhone / camera / computer chargers, batteries..) and if we all had smaller electric cars (we would not have to build so many new roads)..... etc

Mother Earth cannot take it...... what do you guys think? :(

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 5:42 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:The Japan disaster will affect the launch of the IPAD 2, because a large % of rechargeable batteries are made in the Sendal area.

The world is so fragile, 1 big disaster and Japan won't be able to cope, if something were to happen to our water supply, then we won't be able to cope....... some countries have not be able to feed itself for many years now.

So i say, slow down on increasing the population, go back to farming for food (Animals / Plants), have a worldwide standardized material for building (too much waste there), stop making things / products that are thrown away (example- HandPhone / camera / computer chargers, batteries..) and if we all had smaller electric cars (we would not have to build so many new roads)..... etc

Mother Earth cannot take it...... what do you guys think? :(


Nah. Industry has been here what 160 years, and the earth say 4 billion years. 160 vs 4,000,000,000, or 0.000004%.

Only our sense of self-importance, guilt, and desire for self-flagellation makes us think 'the earth cannot take it' any more.

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Postby Brah » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 6:43 pm

Right.

If there's one thing that's been very consistent, it's the message from friends and coworkers in Tokyo, mostly long-timers like myself, saying that the foreign news is sensationalized and that the dangers have been over exaggerated, and that most of them feel no reason to leave with things as they are and have been to date.

x9200 wrote:
franky-MS wrote:There are already calculations regarding Singapore`s exposure to the radiation clouds...
Let`s hope the Best, but it does not look to be a simple local problem. The problem is, the authorities will tell you- in about 20 years...

If the authorities are reasonable then they would be probably right. People have clear tendency to panic hearing certain words of the background they typically do not understand. You seem to be a good example of the said category.

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Postby ksl » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 8:27 pm

Brah wrote:Right.

If there's one thing that's been very consistent, it's the message from friends and coworkers in Tokyo, mostly long-timers like myself, saying that the foreign news is sensationalized and that the dangers have been over exaggerated, and that most of them feel no reason to leave with things as they are and have been to date.

x9200 wrote:
franky-MS wrote:There are already calculations regarding Singapore`s exposure to the radiation clouds...
Let`s hope the Best, but it does not look to be a simple local problem. The problem is, the authorities will tell you- in about 20 years...

If the authorities are reasonable then they would be probably right. People have clear tendency to panic hearing certain words of the background they typically do not understand. You seem to be a good example of the said category.


Well I have been following quite closely and I don't see any sensationalism at all, they did say that around the reactor the dosage was quite high at one point.
The other point was noted that food chain is contaminated above the recommended limits. I can only say that having routinely worked in a military environment and trained in nuclear fall out measures, that the accumulation of radio active material will stay inside the body.

Other than that i would consider what is called commonsense approach to the problem, it is very obvious that human reaction to dosage will be individually different, so therefore those wishing to play Russian roulette with their lives and their children's lives is fine by me.

I posted links to Nuclear power stations, that do statistically gather such information on cancers and leukemia cases within the normal environment, and as i stated that before building a power plant, a number of deaths are taken into consideration over a longer period of time through natural intake of low level radiation dosage, if it is 4 or 5 times the national average over a lifetime, it's no big deal in fact it's relatively cheap as it may only reduce your life span by 10 to 15 years right, and it's not painful until it happens anyway.

I'm curious were the sensationalism is, what I'm seeing is just workers ignorance not listening to their embassies, and not even taking the precautions to protect their health.

Only the workers are claiming sensationalism, and Countries Embassies have a duty to inform their citizens, that's all, it's hardly sensationalism or over reaction, it's commonsense, that the more contamination in the food chain, will increase your risks of cancer over a life time.

If their is a melt down you can reduce your life expectancy and the risks of giving birth to deformities some thought, when it happens, they can then look in the mirror, and wish they followed some instructions, though like everyone says, it will never happen to me! Sensationalism is a big joke I agree, it sells papers, though I've not really seen any thing that points to over exaggeration, when it is a governments duty to warn its citizens of the risks involved. They are basically saying if you stay to listen to the Japanese authorities and take the medication when told to take it, though do they even have the iodine tablets to take, I doubt it. But who really cares!

No one wants panic, as deaths occur Governments expects commonsense to prevail over panic, so if you don't leave they could at least appreciate that the government takes the accident as serious and they should also take it serious and take precautionary measures if staying.

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 9:35 pm

The fact that something exceeded a recommended level of radiation for a short time means in many cases nothing as the recommended levels are rather low. Secondly, people just don't realize how much of radiation (also exceeding the recommended levels) is just around - Nakatago posted a link to the nice chart. It is still safe and yes, typically this is just a cheap sensationalization and not much more.

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Postby Brah » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 9:52 pm

Fair questions, besides my own, direct friend, colleague and family observations, here's a couple of articles that highlight the disparity:

From someone there:

Thousands have left Tokyo recently in a panic about the perceived radiation threat. If you ask any one of them to precisely articulate what the threat consists of, they will be unable to do so. This is because they actually don’t know, and because in fact there is no threat justifying departure, at least not from radioactivity (*).They flee because they have somehow heard that there is a threat – from the media, their embassies, their relatives overseas, friends, etc. These sources of information, too, have never supplied a credible explanation for their advisories.

But they have managed to create a mass panic, leading to thousands of people wasting their money on expensive air fares, disrupting their professional lives, their children’s education, and the many other productive activities they were going about. In some cases, foreign executives have abandoned their post in Tokyo, guaranteeing a total loss of respect among those who have stayed behind. Some service providers catering to the foreign community have lost almost their entire income over night.

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/20/w ... -in-tokyo/

A somewhat alarmist quote from Time:

After Japan suffers a massive, deadly earthquake and tsunami, the country grapples with a growing humanitarian disaster and the potential for a nuclear meltdown.


http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa ... 16,00.html


And an admission:
But no one knows what is really happening at the plant, or what will happen, and how much radiation is being exposed to how many people. That leads to less-than-illuminating reports, such as Lester Holt revealing on the "Today" show that his shoes tested positive for radiation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/2 ... 38283.html


And so on. The consensus from friends who stayed behind, the non-'flyjin' is that there's a lot of noise from CNN, BBC and some French press that is pretty unfounded but makes for what some consider exciting journalism.

I would be skeptical of the Japan Utility company and governmental press releases, but sensibly so.

ksl wrote:
Brah wrote:Right.

If there's one thing that's been very consistent, it's the message from friends and coworkers in Tokyo, mostly long-timers like myself, saying that the foreign news is sensationalized and that the dangers have been over exaggerated, and that most of them feel no reason to leave with things as they are and have been to date.

x9200 wrote:
franky-MS wrote:There are already calculations regarding Singapore`s exposure to the radiation clouds...
Let`s hope the Best, but it does not look to be a simple local problem. The problem is, the authorities will tell you- in about 20 years...

If the authorities are reasonable then they would be probably right. People have clear tendency to panic hearing certain words of the background they typically do not understand. You seem to be a good example of the said category.


Well I have been following quite closely and I don't see any sensationalism at all, they did say that around the reactor the dosage was quite high at one point.
The other point was noted that food chain is contaminated above the recommended limits. I can only say that having routinely worked in a military environment and trained in nuclear fall out measures, that the accumulation of radio active material will stay inside the body.

Other than that i would consider what is called commonsense approach to the problem, it is very obvious that human reaction to dosage will be individually different, so therefore those wishing to play Russian roulette with their lives and their children's lives is fine by me.

I posted links to Nuclear power stations, that do statistically gather such information on cancers and leukemia cases within the normal environment, and as i stated that before building a power plant, a number of deaths are taken into consideration over a longer period of time through natural intake of low level radiation dosage, if it is 4 or 5 times the national average over a lifetime, it's no big deal in fact it's relatively cheap as it may only reduce your life span by 10 to 15 years right, and it's not painful until it happens anyway.

I'm curious were the sensationalism is, what I'm seeing is just workers ignorance not listening to their embassies, and not even taking the precautions to protect their health.

Only the workers are claiming sensationalism, and Countries Embassies have a duty to inform their citizens, that's all, it's hardly sensationalism or over reaction, it's commonsense, that the more contamination in the food chain, will increase your risks of cancer over a life time.

If their is a melt down you can reduce your life expectancy and the risks of giving birth to deformities some thought, when it happens, they can then look in the mirror, and wish they followed some instructions, though like everyone says, it will never happen to me! Sensationalism is a big joke I agree, it sells papers, though I've not really seen any thing that points to over exaggeration, when it is a governments duty to warn its citizens of the risks involved. They are basically saying if you stay to listen to the Japanese authorities and take the medication when told to take it, though do they even have the iodine tablets to take, I doubt it. But who really cares!

No one wants panic, as deaths occur Governments expects commonsense to prevail over panic, so if you don't leave they could at least appreciate that the government takes the accident as serious and they should also take it serious and take precautionary measures if staying.

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Postby ksl » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:14 pm

Ah yes in that sense you are right sensationalism, over reaction of the news. I think it's the not knowing of how too cope, that causes a mass exodus, when a simple explanation of precautions and understanding is beneficial radioactive means scary to many. In fact any kind of emergency is very stressful for one, that has not experienced disasters and death, it's a permanent fixture in the mind, and I can say the earth quakes i have been in have been real scary, has you have no control whatsoever, it's kind of like standing on a surf board for the first time.

Though I guess people are more worried of the potential melt down if any, rather than what is flying around at the moment. I think I read the reading at the point of disaster was 550 and and around 200 within close proximity. Tokyo is well out of the danger level, though I do understand that people do not want to take the risk of hanging around if a melt down occurs.

If you take Morecambe and Heysham in the UK, it was a very popular tourist destination before the Nuclear power station was built, on completion it became a ghost town and derelict, that's the sacrifice government as already estimated would happen. Those that actually live there do not even think of the consequences of the increased cancer statistics, and I never even give them much thought myself, when i return each year, risks are minimal, but if i was to think deeply about it, I would have to consider my daughters health too and probably locate further away, than 8km, if I remember to.

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Postby earthfriendly » Tue, 22 Mar 2011 4:34 am

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... ?GT1=43001

Family mourns American teacher's death in Japan.


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