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Marriage, Kids and Citizenship

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wombat11
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Marriage, Kids and Citizenship

Postby wombat11 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 10:16 pm

Hi

I'm an Australian woman who is living in Singapore (no PR). My partner is Malay Singaporean. We are marrying later in the year. I need advice on a few things

- I'm converting to Islam. Any suggestions on whether it is better to marry in Australia or Singapore?

- I'm mostly concerned about our future children. Neither of us want a son who must do the Singapore National Service. How do we assure that our children don't have to do this? Do I have the children in Australia and therefore they have Australian citizenship? Or would they have dual citizenship? What if I wanted my children to do some of their growing up in Singapore? Would that make it compulsory for a boy to complete NS? Is it possible to have the children in Singapore (it's better for us to stay in Singapore for the next couple of years) then move to Australia when they are in primary school and not have to serve NS when they turn 18?

Hope someone knows the ins and outs of all this stuff!

Cheers

Eau2011
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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 10:45 pm

This thread is probably useful for you.

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beppi
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Postby beppi » Mon, 07 Mar 2011 12:46 pm

If a child is born in Singapore and has at least one parent who is Singaporean, it automatically has Singapore citizenship. Boys cannot renounce citizenship before NS.

If a child is born outside of Singapore with at least one Singaporean parent, citizenship can be applied for (double citizenship is allowed up to 21 years).

PRs (second generation) also have to serve NS. I don't know if a child of a Singaporean can get PR and then would be classified as first or second generation.

It is not impossible for the child to grow up in Singapore without citizenship/PR, but disadvantages come with it. Also, the authorities dislike attempts to circumvent NS, so don't expect any goodwill if you do this.

Apparently there is a possibility for a Singaporean boy to leave the country at an early age and then renounce citizenship without having to do NS, but it is very complicated - read other threads or wait for MS's reply.
In any case after renunciation (or cancelling PR) it is highly unlikely he will ever be able to live in Singapore again.

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Re: Marriage, Kids and Citizenship

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 07 Mar 2011 5:35 pm

wombat11 wrote:Hi

I'm an Australian woman who is living in Singapore (no PR). My partner is Malay Singaporean. We are marrying later in the year. I need advice on a few things

- I'm converting to Islam. Any suggestions on whether it is better to marry in Australia or Singapore?

This is a two part.
1. If you are married in Oz you will need to get marriage celebrant to notorize your marriage. Once done that , you have to register your marriage at Syariah Court in Singapore to solemnize it again. I am not sure if the Authority in charge will allow it as the law regarding this has change significantly to reduce the divorce cases among Muslim/Malay and to prevent marriage of convenience.If this fails then you have to do it in civil court which is against Islamic Law here.
2. If you do the reverse, you need to get properly converted in Singapore at the Muslim Convert Association before marriage. A proper course will be provided. I am not sure about the fee.

Personally this is better as you will need to understand Islam as a religion before reverting back as marriage without the proper guideline can lead to demise of your marriage and it also shows ICA that yours is a marriage of convenience. Hence the onus to proof true to your words on reverting will make ICA approves your application for Long Term Visit Pass.


- I'm mostly concerned about our future children. Neither of us want a son who must do the Singapore National Service. How do we assure that our children don't have to do this? Do I have the children in Australia and therefore they have Australian citizenship? Or would they have dual citizenship? What if I wanted my children to do some of their growing up in Singapore? Would that make it compulsory for a boy to complete NS? Is it possible to have the children in Singapore (it's better for us to stay in Singapore for the next couple of years) then move to Australia when they are in primary school and not have to serve NS when they turn 18?

Once you have done the above. You can live in OZ . Make sure hubby has Ozzie Citizenship/PR as back up. Give birth in OZ, then if you want to , apply for SG Citizenship ONLY. Do not apply for SG PP. To stay in SG for child, all you need to do is THE RIGHT OF ENTRY STAMP stamped on his OZ PP. He will then be able to live , educate here like any other SGer. He can hold this dual citizenship till the age of 21 where the child has to choose either SG or OZ
If you do that then you can have them educated here till age 13 for some growing up. If he continues to stay till 16, high chances he will be called upon for NS. Although no one I knew was called for NS but there is this risk.
If you chose this route, this is easy to get as your hubby is a Sger hence minor by descent is allowed dual citizenship if born overseas. The risk is your children needs to leave SG before 13 years of age to prevent them from doing NS. You can read the full guideline by Kraikk on this issue


Alternatively you apply EP to SG and have your child under Dependent Pass or Student Pass. This will be the safest way .


Hope someone knows the ins and outs of all this stuff!

Cheers
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

wombat11
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Postby wombat11 » Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:10 am

Thanks

So I'll probably get married in Singapore then have a small reception in Australia for my Australian friends.

Have the kids in Oz, let them do some growing up in Singapore then take them back to Oz!

Sounds simple enough :shock:

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 08 Mar 2011 3:57 am

wombat11 wrote:Thanks

So I'll probably get married in Singapore then have a small reception in Australia for my Australian friends.

Have the kids in Oz, let them do some growing up in Singapore then take them back to Oz!

Sounds simple enough :shock:


That is as simple as it can get, I reckon.
Just be aware that if you are under 21, you probably not encourage to get married. This is the view of ICA
Your hubby if he is a NS reservist personnel , he has to complete at least 3 yrs of his reservist before he can renounce if everything goes to custard
There are alot of minefield in SG regulations especially when it involves male child, absorb as much from this forum as possible.
Throw a line if you need more info, I wil try to hang on as long as possible.

Good Luck and congratulation on your upcoming marriage
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

wombat11
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Postby wombat11 » Thu, 10 Mar 2011 9:39 pm

thanks heaps.


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