Happened to a friend of mine, and MOM had to choose between FT and a local home-grown (no kidding - even headline stealing) company - MOM chose the latter .. and did nothing ..sundaymorningstaple wrote:Yes, it's defo illegal and MOM wouldn't like it one bit. But, in this case it's not really a big deal. The employer might get a telling off or a slap on the wrist or even barred for a period of time. The key here is the fact that the employee is still qualified for an EP at any rate.
As a matter of fact, a simple question among the thousands of restaurant, hotel, bar staff, plus the thousands of such workers from Indonesia, Philippines, Myanmar etc .. will prove that almost or more than 50% are on terms like higher declared pay and balance paid back to employer .. as 'deductions' ..However, if it were an S pass holder, all hell would break loose as these people are on levies and it's the lowest tier of the EP ladder. If they weren't making 1800/month minimum they would have an S pass at all so MOM is even more strict there, ensuring that all S pass employers pay their S pass holders via GIRO and the caution that MOM can walk in and inspect their bank records and payroll records at any time without warning. However, I do know that abuse still happens and you read about it occasionally when somebody get caught with their hands in the cookie jar trying to pull a fast one.
My 2 cents ?? I almost got caught with an employer, when he was trying to pull me in, at a time when EP was tough .. and casually, another colleague mentioned that, from his experience, such employers not only screw you, but hold your B***S tight - because, if you harbor any thoughts of going to CPIB, the employer will produce documents to say you were part of the scam - the result ? Employer will likely dissolve / sell his company to his sister and will be business-as-usual, and you get sent back home packing ..revhappy wrote:So how are you going to prove this? As of now the employer has just put forward this proposal, its not in writing, is it? And I bet they will never do it in writing. She will have to actually return 50% back to them in order to prove it. If she does that, it means she is playing a part in it too.
That's not a nice thing to say - my experience working in the region, it is not Singapore, but all over the world, the more desperate the employee is, and the more smarter the employer is, he / she will try to squeeze the terms here and there .. don't blame Singapore.So you see, the employers are smart. Welcome to business friendly Singapore. Its always a double edged sword.
Well, and an employer who is on that term can also find trivial reasons to fire you .. and you can take the case to the court and still you can do zilch - can you force an employer to keep you employed ? This is Asia - not Europe, where employers have to keep the people employed ..If it doesnt exist then may be your GF can refuse to return back the 50% salary and then they have no choice but to pay her the full salary.
By the double edged sword comment what I meant was being business friendly has its positives and negatives. Its very easy to get Visa to work here and low cost of doing business and low taxes. But business friendly also means low employee rights. In Europe its exactly opposite you have labour unions and what not so its very difficult to fire an employee there and its equally difficult to find a job there.ecureilx wrote:My 2 cents ?? I almost got caught with an employer, when he was trying to pull me in, at a time when EP was tough .. and casually, another colleague mentioned that, from his experience, such employers not only screw you, but hold your B***S tight - because, if you harbor any thoughts of going to CPIB, the employer will produce documents to say you were part of the scam - the result ? Employer will likely dissolve / sell his company to his sister and will be business-as-usual, and you get sent back home packing ..revhappy wrote:So how are you going to prove this? As of now the employer has just put forward this proposal, its not in writing, is it? And I bet they will never do it in writing. She will have to actually return 50% back to them in order to prove it. If she does that, it means she is playing a part in it too.
That's not a nice thing to say - my experience working in the region, it is not Singapore, but all over the world, the more desperate the employee is, and the more smarter the employer is, he / she will try to squeeze the terms here and there .. don't blame Singapore.So you see, the employers are smart. Welcome to business friendly Singapore. Its always a double edged sword.
Singapore is a bit on the upper scale due to the number of people trying to come here, and the number of small/medium business who want to sqeeze an extra dollar out the employe .. (that's my 2 cents .. )
Well, and an employer who is on that term can also find trivial reasons to fire you .. and you can take the case to the court and still you can do zilch - can you force an employer to keep you employed ? This is Asia - not Europe, where employers have to keep the people employed ..If it doesnt exist then may be your GF can refuse to return back the 50% salary and then they have no choice but to pay her the full salary.
like, in Europe, where labour laws make it hard to fire staff, and employers are forced to keep paying the staff, or face the music .. and it is cheaper to keep the people paid regardless of their contribution or not ..
I may be wrong ..
revhappy wrote: By the double edged sword comment what I meant was being business friendly has its positives and negatives. Its very easy to get Visa to work here and low cost of doing business and low taxes. But business friendly also means low employee rights. In Europe its exactly opposite you have labour unions and what not so its very difficult to fire an employee there and its equally difficult to find a job there.
Yes boss - you got that rightI hope you got what I intend to say. I wasn't comparing SG with the region. If SG was like the region, none of us would have been here, would we?
Not to be funny, I was in a small company when SARS hit- and our directors (both of them) proudly declared they are working salary-free for the next six months .. and while I was not intruding, I was reminded that salary free doesn't equate to really free ..Mad Scientist wrote:The first during SAR period but the difference were met by the Gahmen, hence we are not out of pocket ..............>>>>> .... All the directors stop taking any pay or allowance at all for a year just to keep the company afloat
Yep, you're correct. Its a tricky situation and obviously a load of hassle that we don't really need. We're waiting to see what the little sh*t says today and if he wants to follow correct procedure by sending out a new contract and making suggestions to do things properly and officially.Mad Scientist wrote:Billy
First of all , these advise came from my sis , a litigation lawyer(hired gun for the Gahmen ), in SG. Not my words. So she convey this from a legal perspective.
Severance pay, if the needs arises , if everything goes to custard will depend on the contract signed.
MOM Employment Act is only a guideline. They will oversee the dispute but usually the courts will decide. They are more concern of the "small" people taken advantage by unscruplous employer..
Now comes the hard part, your gf is in dilemma. The best way to go forward is to get it recorded and documented, then seek lawyer for compensation.
Litigation cost varies from $500 onwards. Yours, I imagined in the range of $2 to $5K all in. This is peanut compare to getting nothing from the employer.
Based on my previous life, yes, we did some pay cut after consultation with MOM and employees. The first during SAR period but the difference were met by the Gahmen, hence we are not out of pocket
The last one we discuss with the employees and inform MOM too . They suggested that we keep the some staff and release all the WPs and contract workers. We did provide a token of gratuity to all of them. Most of them know that business was very bad. All the directors stop taking any pay or allowance at all for a year just to keep the company afloat. Managers and executives took 50% cut. This was done across the board. Lastly we had everyone on alternate NO PAY week leave.
This lasted almost a year until business picked up. The last one we received no help from the gahmen.
If paycut exercise was done across the board then your gf employer is a bloody sucker. It has to be fair and square.
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