Is that enough?

Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.
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aster
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Post by aster » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 11:19 am

ksl wrote:The you should do a search on the most happiest Countries in the world! :) Norway is top with Denmark second!
Way too socialist to be considered for anyone who's making a proper living. I mean how much do you lose in Denmark due to tax, 50%? 60%? More?

Copenhagen is one of the most boring capitol cities I have been to on a global scale (Canberra is up there too - but it's only "theoretically" the capitol). And during winter, Copenhagen is very dark and gloomy. You can't imagine how happy I was to board my return flight the last time I was there...

What a lifestyle upgrade to move from there to Singapore and get a very good "family package" too, not to mention free housing+car.

One thing I'd look into is if the company would be willing to hand over extra $$$ instead of providing the company car, as you can easily do without one here.

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Post by Eau2011 » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 8:59 pm

ksl wrote: The you should do a search on the most happiest Countries in the world! :) Norway is top with Denmark second! If you want cold try Beijing in Winter or better still Harbin , with a wind chill factor, and depressed oh my my, you have had it too good hee hee! Denmark is very flat, so not so nice really, though the buildings tell a different story of closeness and family living for the young and freedom fighters, though that area is doomed I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania
I can go there for holidays, no, I don't want to live there in Winter. Nor Beijing, Harbin, Moscow (my husband was also offered possibility to work for company's subsidiary in Moscow, he immediately refused).

I know the doctors did give prescription of holidays in Southeast Asia to the patients against their depression, but nowadays it's not paid by the insurance anymore.

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Post by ksl » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 3:06 am

Way too socialist to be considered for anyone who's making a proper living
Meaning what exactly by a proper living?

European income tax rates are very close to each other these days, are they not, though minimum wages are very different, with Denmark almost double the UK's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe

I guess as a tourist, you would find it dull, boring and far too expensive, unless you are Japanese or you had an interest in the Country.

Though hygge is the key word in Denmark and that is difficult to explain, though Conviviality is probably the closest one can get with translation, but its not quite the same.

Though no matter where you live it's what you make of it, some people are always depressed and never happy, how sad that is. Though if you can mix, the Danish people are very open, friendly, and witty.

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Post by aster » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 1:16 pm

A proper living in that you are not dependent on a socialist state helping you out with freebies and give-aways (healthcare and education benefits excluded), are not worried about minimal wage, and are not in the lowest tax bracket if there are multiple rates (no flat-tax system).

Just in general this is how I see it. Basically everyone to whom such a tax structure would be a burden. :)

European taxes are not the same everywhere, and few are as oppressive and "communist" in nature as Scandinavian tax systems. I like Scandinavian people, especially Norwegians who are some of the greatest and most fun to be with people out there (or Fins but some say they don't fit under the definition of Scandinavian), but God protect me from ever having to move to a socialist, gloomy place like Denmark.

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Post by Eau2011 » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 1:49 pm

aster wrote:A proper living in that you are not dependent on a socialist state helping you out with freebies and give-aways (healthcare and education benefits excluded), are not worried about minimal wage, and are not in the lowest tax bracket if there are multiple rates (no flat-tax system).

Just in general this is how I see it. Basically everyone to whom such a tax structure would be a burden. :)
I do agree.

but God protect me from ever having to move to a socialist, gloomy place like Denmark.
I pray to God everyday. :mrgreen:


I think people should work hard for their own proper living, not rely on the state and other fellow people.

When I read and heard those stories in Germany, the whole family doesn't work, parents are unemployed, they refused to work because either the job isn't what they wished or the distance to company is too far, kids don't want to start a vocational training because they are used to have money from social welfare office. They live on the costs of other tax payers. There was one, he has never worked in his whole life, more than 30 years unemployed, and he said shamelessly:"why should I go to work?" He sits in a pub and walks a dog everyday.

This is just unfair!

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Post by ksl » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 4:14 pm

aster wrote:A proper living in that you are not dependent on a socialist state helping you out with freebies and give-aways (healthcare and education benefits excluded), are not worried about minimal wage, and are not in the lowest tax bracket if there are multiple rates (no flat-tax system).

Just in general this is how I see it. Basically everyone to whom such a tax structure would be a burden. :)

European taxes are not the same everywhere, and few are as oppressive and "communist" in nature as Scandinavian tax systems. I like Scandinavian people, especially Norwegians who are some of the greatest and most fun to be with people out there (or Fins but some say they don't fit under the definition of Scandinavian), but God protect me from ever having to move to a socialist, gloomy place like Denmark.


I kind of agree to a certain extent, however Denmark and every other welfare system, in the world would be fine if immigration was enforced like Singapore.

There is nothing wrong with other Countries or culture, just how other people interpret the systems. Subjective and objective opinions are all relevant agreed.

Which Country are you from?

It's just that I find characters and opinions all interesting, so its nice to see which side of the world is voicing an opinion!
A proper living in that you are not dependent on a socialist state helping you out with freebies and give-aways
Most people, the majority do actually have proper jobs, they work 45 years non stop, or did you miss that, to qualify for their 100% pension.

They are independant people and have never had benefits. Sorry I'm missing something. You mean we should execute the rest? I also agree with that too, if they will not work. :-| Though a very small percentage do need help, just like Singapore, as the government deliberately keep them on the bottom of the pile, they work probably twice the hours you or i do, for less money.

In fact I have heard that over 65 years old, cleaning in the hawkers may only get 20$ a day...they are subsidised to help people like you, so how do we solve this problem of stopping a state supporting the unfortunate low paid people if there is no welfare?

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Post by Eau2011 » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 5:34 pm

ksl wrote: In fact I have heard that over 65 years old, cleaning in the hawkers may only get 20$ a day...they are subsidised to help people like you, so how do we solve this problem of stopping a state supporting the unfortunate low paid people if there is no welfare?
Exactly what I mentioned in another thread.

I do not have any problems with helping people who really need help. In fact, I'm really glad to do that.

That's also my question, why SG state did not do anything to grant a mininum pension for them to survive?

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 5:53 pm

It's all going to MP's with their hyper-inflated salaries. :-|
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by JayCee » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 7:52 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's all going to MP's with their hyper-inflated salaries. :-|
+1

But it helps keep Singapore 'corruption free' though :roll:

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Post by aster » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 8:29 pm

Eau2011 wrote:I do not have any problems with helping people who really need help. In fact, I'm really glad to do that.
Exactly. Give help to the needy.

In the UK you have people with tons of kids, no jobs, absolutely no desire to hold any job I must add - regardless of the pay unless it was to be something astronomical - yet they truly believe that they should live in luxury at the taxpayers' expense.

Eau just gave you some examples from Germany, though there are people who are allergic to work around the entire continent. Luckily in countries like Germany you still have people who want to work... and work well, on a high level, across numerous advanced industries, which is why the German economy is still super-strong and the foundation of Europe's economic strength.

Then you have entire countries which are allergic to work like Greece, where it's better to borrow and live on someone else's tab in an aura of constantly-rising debt. And when someone tells you that you can't just sit on your *ss all day because money doesn't grow on trees, what do they do? They riot! :D

Getting back to Denmark, it doesn't seem that the country is strictly helping out the needy and nothing more because that doesn't warrant people getting 55% of their income snatched by the state, not to mention the highest VAT (GST) rate in the entire European Union... which is only at 25% simply because... the EU does NOT allow it to be any higher. :)

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Post by ksl » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 8:33 pm

My thoughts are in fact on those expats that move here long term and their CPF contributions, is it enough for survival on retirement, as Asta is not happy with tax going to any type of welfare. Would Singapore be her saviour :)

My sister in law here was telling me by the time she retires she will need about $2 million to continue her life style in retirement, I haven't even give it a thought as i don't have to worry so much.

I mean the way I see it, we have a two thriving businesses after 6 years, employing Singaporeans, though my wife who runs it should retire at 65, which is only 18 years away.

With Singapore's rising costs and the class distinction on subsidies between PR's and citizens, what is the point of doing business here if it's only to feed self indulged egoism?

Actually you rant on at how Denmark is the highest, though incomes are double along with tax allowances, so i really don't understand what you are implying.

An unemployed person in Denmark is responsible for their own lives, they do not get welfare benefits, and still they will have sufficient money to take two or 3 holidays a year, their unemployment money is taxable.

Though i guess the monarchy in Denmark will take a fair slice of the tax too. I must admit that I have never felt poor while employed in Denmark. compared to the UK and it's a short working week.

The reason the tax is high is because of the burden of responsibility. Though i will say, that Denmark has decided to clamp down on foreign immigrants, much more than UK.

Of course there are literally thousands of lay abouts that do not give a toss
about work, they push drugs, rob, and defraud the system.. I don't blame the system at all, I blame the politician that run the Country into the ground at the expense of citizens.

Who to blame Human rights organisation, for example....and really bad government management. You still haven't given your country away :wink: Though you have given your character away a little :lol: Which is fair enough as I agree with most.

There really isn't much anyone can do, but yes I see your point, the time to worry is when you need the help yourself and cannot get any.

Like here I have spent 15K in sterling in less than 2 years on hospital fees, I know Singaporeans that cannot afford to be ill as they cannot even pay after subsidies ask any of the taxi drivers. So what about them too
Last edited by ksl on Wed, 02 Mar 2011 9:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Post by JR8 » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 9:05 pm

I enjoy visiting Scandinavia (indeed I appreciated the comments about how nice Norwegians are, on a personal level ;))

But the fact is they are basically socialist countries with wealth redistribution.

As a visitor they are horrendously expensive.

As a resident. Well, if you have 80% of your income squeezed out you each year, I'm not sure you should be deliriously happy that you are given benefits in your dotage.

p.s. It reminds me of the Brits being pathetically grateful and dewy-eyed about the '''free''' NHS, for which they pay 10% of their income for their whole lives to make '''free'''

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Post by ksl » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 9:28 pm

JR8 wrote:I enjoy visiting Scandinavia (indeed I appreciated the comments about how nice Norwegians are, on a personal level ;))

But the fact is they are basically socialist countries with wealth redistribution.

As a visitor they are horrendously expensive.

As a resident. Well, if you have 80% of your income squeezed out you each year, I'm not sure you should be deliriously happy that you are given benefits in your dotage.

p.s. It reminds me of the Brits being pathetically grateful and dewy-eyed about the '''free''' NHS, for which they pay 10% of their income for their whole lives to make '''free'''
Yes you are right, the wealth is fairly distributed, and you can actually see and feel the results, you also get excellent quality and service everywhere too, so I have never felt any need to complain on high tax, and even my social network of friends include some very popular people, musicians, poets, actors.

Though Astor is right it can be boring as weekends come shops close down at 12 noon on the Saturday, but life is cherished, it would be away to the summer houses or the beach in summer or winter. I mean the actual tax sounds scary, but there are many allowances and investments that make for an excellent quality of life.

I mean it's just another world, when you get into the system, which i trust a damn site more than the British since they decentralised everything to cause chaos deliberately, so that you would have to fight your way through the catch 22 forms and declarations.

The thing is where to live in retirement? We can't all go to SMS's ranch! :roll:

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Post by JR8 » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 9:49 pm

ksl wrote: Yes you are right, the wealth is fairly distributed, and you can actually see and feel the results, you also get excellent quality and service everywhere too, so I have never felt any need to complain on high tax, and even my social network of friends include some very popular people, musicians, poets, actors.

'Fairly distributed?' What on earth does that mean? Not a fan of Ayn Rand I trust?

I am not a marxist. I believe in earn what you can, and the trickle-down theory.

With respect the Danes are socialists. Musicians, actors and poets are my definition socialists almost anywhere, never mind in Scandinavia! [first hand knowledge]

I'd rather work and keep 80% of my income than 30% and have 20% filtered back via an arrogant untouchable a-la-Libya bloated state.

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Post by nakatago » Wed, 02 Mar 2011 9:59 pm

JayCee wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's all going to MP's with their hyper-inflated salaries. :-|
+1

But it helps keep Singapore 'corruption free' though :roll:

Just because it's legal, it doesn't mean it's not corrupted.
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