How do you look at china and future of china

[JR8]

'My intentions were noble, it is just the people who messed up in the execution, er... [cough] I mean delivery!'

[nakatago]

For the record and to set some things straight,

Eau2011 and paulzheng, from which countries are you two from, if you don't mind telling us folks here in this thread?

[tyianchang]

[quote="VaucluseI do love discussing China and their hypocrisy, their complete and utter hypocrisy . . . their shameless and wantonly furious responses to Japan not including certain events in their history books . . . when China's history books reflect very little, if any, of the damage done, the wiping out of classes of people . . . the heinous murder of millions of their own people.

Such speaks a China hater.

Please seperate China and its government, they are two different things. A China lover could still love China but not CCP, e.g. me.

You've got a point there but the facts are not all in black and white, so such a generalisation is only harmful to the Chinese people. It's in the vein of the Yellow Peril.

[Plavt]

Please direct your argy bargy to the toilet bowl. lol

Oh dear, can't take the heat? Time to get out of the kitchen.

[Eau2011]

For the record and to set some things straight,

Eau2011 and paulzheng, from which countries are two from, if you don't mind telling us folks here in this thread?

Nak, you have read my plastic bags thread? It had been written thousands of times: I am a native-born Chinese.

A few know it. SMS, JR8, beppi....

If you read Paul's comment in this thread carefully. He also pointed out where he is from

[Vaucluse]

China already has a unification from the days of the Qin emperor that can embrace communist structures; but they had to fight to be communists. Most of the intellectuals, students and dispossesseds were murdered by the KMTs, Japanese and some British. Are you really on the murderous side ???[/color]

Such speaks a China hater.

Yet again you fail to understand even the most basic concepts put forward . . . and you don't bother to comment on my rebuttal vis-a-vis your misplaced comment regarding 'victor's history' and 'foreign history' or 'China History Books'.

I hate to make you look the fool but China during the Qin emperors looked vastly different from now, so your comment re unification is nonsensical.

You state that most students and intellectuals were murdered by the British and the Japanese . . . please explain how this could be as this mass extermination took place after they left China.

A 'China Hater'? Is that the extent of your discussion skills? Someone brings up an opposing view to your and the best you can do is brand them something as ridiculous as that?

You've got a point there but the facts are not all in black and white, so such a generalisation is only harmful to the Chinese people. It's in the vein of the Yellow Peril.

You really don't know how utterly ridiculous you come across . . . Me? Hating Chinese?

Please do admit that you are a Mainland Chinese as their debating 'skills' are very similar to yours . . . they don't have any.

[JR8]

Never mind the direct 'tangles' my family had with the Nazis, where I live you can barely walk down a street without a daily reminder of genocide.



The associated short article is well written and worth a read for anyone with an interest in history...
http://berlinmemory.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ks-to.html

[Eau2011]

I don't understand your comparison with the German murderer.
I'm sorry to hear about your family tragedy. There were hundreds as I've read of but not heard of. My friends told me about the chaos of that time - generals joining different groups and infightings going on . I believe it was never Mao's idea to create such tragedies but an ideology that will see China continue its revolution instead of slipping back into past malpractices. It was like overhauling a gigantic white elephant in his esire to have a new China.
Are you Chinese and have you lived in China? I'm afraid I'm rather resilient to stories until they're tried and tested in the war of ideologies. But I'm especially so sinc

Yes I'm native-born Chinese, I grew up in China and had my education in China. Before I came to Germany, I did not even know there was Tiananmen massacre. It's always been told those were thugs, of cause not mentioning that famous man standing in front of the tank. I got to know Tiananmen mothers who have fought for years for the justice for their sons who died in 1989, they are still fighting without sucess! In mainland China it's forbidden to talk about them. I feel I was fooled by the CCP!!!

I can tell you, when I travelled from Germany to Singapore to Hong Kong to Shenzhen, the only place where I cannot use google, twitter, facebook, is Shenzhen! Censorship sucks! it did and it still does!

[JR8]

For the record and to set some things straight,

Eau2011 and paulzheng, from which countries are two from, if you don't mind telling us folks here in this thread?

Nak, you have read my plastic bags thread? It had been written thousands of times: I am a native-born Chinese.

A few know it. SMS, JR8, beppi....

If you read Paul's comment in this thread carefully. He also pointed out where he is from

Yah oso say Tsk Tsk Nak, pay attention!

[nakatago]

For the record and to set some things straight,

Eau2011 and paulzheng, from which countries are two from, if you don't mind telling us folks here in this thread?

Nak, you have read my plastic bags thread? It had been written thousands of times: I am a native-born Chinese.

A few know it. SMS, JR8, beppi....

If you read Paul's comment in this thread carefully. He also pointed out where he is from

Oh, I know you're Chinese (I lurk here a lot) but tiyanchiang clearly doesn't. I mean, if two native-born Chinese are complaining about Mao and the CCP but clearly love their country and their people, what gives an ethnically-only Chinese living in Europe moral or emotional high ground? It's like admiring Muammar Al-Ghaddafi for his love of Libyans and his peacekeeping ways clearly exhibited by him ordering armed men to open fire or fighter planes to fire rockets on protesters.

But thanks for making it clear for people who missed it.

[Eau2011]

I don't understand your comparison with the German murderer.
I'm sorry to hear about your family tragedy. There were hundreds as I've read of but not heard of. My friends told me about the chaos of that time - generals joining different groups and infightings going on . I believe it was never Mao's idea to create such tragedies but an ideology that will see China continue its revolution instead of slipping back into past malpractices. It was like overhauling a gigantic white elephant in his esire to have a new China.
Are you Chinese and have you lived in China? I'm afraid I'm rather resilient to stories until they're tried and tested in the war of ideologies. But I'm especially so sinc

Yes I'm native-born Chinese, I grew up in China and had my education in China. Before I came to Germany, I did not even know there was Tiananmen massacre. It's always been told those were thugs, of cause not mentioning that famous man standing in front of the tank. I got to know Tiananmen mothers who have fought for years for the justice for their sons who died in 1989, they are still fighting without sucess! ! In mainland China it's forbidden to talk about them. I feel I was fooled by the CCP!!!

I can tell you, when I travelled from Germany to Singapore to Hong Kong to Shenzhen, the only place where I cannot use google, twitter, facebook, it's Shenzhen! Censorship sucks! it did and it still does!

Those mothers who lost their children, they had to hold secret momerial ceremonies for their children every year, every June 4th they are under house arrest because CCP is so afraid that they'll go to Tiananmen to protest.

If you have children, what will you feel????

[JR8]

Please seperate China and its government, they are two different things. A China lover could still love China but not CCP, e.g. me.

You've got a point there but the facts are not all in black and white, so such a generalisation is only harmful to the Chinese people. It's in the vein of the Yellow Peril.

It would be like suggesting the Americans and democrats are one and the same. Or that the British all hold the same values as their government.

Eau is simply suggesting you do not imply that the Chinese people are one and the same as their government. And your reply? Frankly I don't understand it, it is jibberish, and yet as we have become used to you still seem to manage to find some anti-Chinese sentiment within it.

[Eau2011]

"my impression (also by visiting Taiwanese Forum) was most Taiwanese don't want the unification if they have to live under one party dictatorship. "

CCTV always told the china people in the other way, " the people both in mainland and Taiwan are both belong to one china, and they want to be unification as soon as possible"

I am not saying i am agree that Taiwan to be independant, but when i heard one of my friend from USA said he agree that Taiwan should be independant, i was shocked.

the point is not whether Taiwan should be independant or not, the question is that i never have a chance to hear the opposite opinion before.

HAHA CCTV, Chinese call it CCAV, do you know what it means, it's credibility is even worse than prostitutes. (AV= japanese pornographic TV), no offence against protitutes. I just translate how Chinese call them.

Everybody knows CCTV is the throat of the CCP, propaganda, like Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels did.

[Eau2011]

time for dinner...

Don't run away, you guys..

[tyianchang]

.

My point is that over 1 billion 300 million people are very difficult to satisfy, it could go up any time, at present only 300 million are getting a piece of the action.

You should add. "and to govern."[/color
]Though it is true to say that if you are Chinese, you address them all, as they are all family, even though some disagree like Taiwan, you cannot cut the strings no matter were they live. Identity is the most important thing of our lives, so communists, may support Mao and his errors, if they didn't they would be executed.

Not really, ksl. Chinese definitely have no racial loyalties and that's absolutely true!! They stay inside their family compounds which was why Mao started the cultural revolution. And it didnt work either, Mao. I'm beginning to think, as a librarian, was more of a romantic who wrote poems and cared about human sufferings. The others in his group were similarly different types, CHou En Lai the diplomat, Liu Shao Qi the military but upright, Hu Yao Beng the economist and crooked etc

It's getting more and more clear, that there are literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of non communistic Chinese, that are controlled by cadres and if they do step out of line, they will be punished facts not fiction.

That's not true as far as I'm concerned and from the people I've known, that's entirely untrue as they're free to be what they want with no contacts with anyone in the govt. My only connections with the Chinese embassy is when my school asks for resources from them!

Interesting stuff the Taiwanese Chinese and mainland with a Brit in the middle, I know when to shut up

Were you an agent? I do like the novels of Graham Greene. lol
It's a very rich history, Japanese I'm afraid cannot be compared Plavt, they had their time of success and blew it....a lot of bad feeling today I can assure you for those families that were slaughtered by the Japanese its really a sensitive issue, but Japan never had the initiative to mix with foreigners it wanted to dominate and remain pure like Hitler.

Plavt's either a lovely forgiving man, works for a Japanese company or had no relations fighting in Asia in WW2. Quick - my ear muffs!

I think the Chinese are more prone to be hardworking and focused on infiltration into communities planting seeds, to reap the rewards and gaining trust like a wolf in sheep's clothes Though China is rocky unstable and running risks of bubbles, and rebellion, its really a balancing act how on earth do you satisfy that kind of population. I think it will be done with the help of every nation, though the balance of wealth must be evenly distributed. There will be another oil conflict and confrontation before China sees democracy and the rate the world is going natural disasters and wars will settle the score of balance.

Who needs oil? Soon, everyone'll be able to offer non-oil products and manufacturing industries will run on alternative fuels. Isn't the current protests about the control of oil as well; conceding that those in power had use cases of brute force on their 'enemies"?
China is democratic in its own way. What it needs is free speech and thicker skins. I think they're to easily offended and that can make them small minded.

Nature is going to kick arse much more than it has done, just wait and see. People are the worst enemies of all life unfortunately

Ohhh... shxx, let's hope no more earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanic eruptions will come to plague us - can't humankind cooperate against the real dangers??

All the small ranters of equal rights may well have cause, but no real leverage at this time...just stamp on them or lock them up is the easiest, until it becomes a need for change.

(Bilfilsing:treating women like shit) For many years girl babies were killed at birth, as they were thought to be non productive today the young girls are kidnapped and sold on the black market, highly valued and out numbered. The women are treated more equal than British women believe it or not, they fought alongside the men in the revolution and earned there equality, they are strong minded women very individual and respectful to a degree, however treat one like shit, and you probably won't wake up in the morning, they are calculated and deliberate in what they do, were not talking of SPG's here. But hunger for wealth and family quite the opposite to most western mentality and your bank balance is the target for those that plan it. Many Singaporean men have been taken to the cleaners by mainland Chinese women and no doubt many foreigners too.

Gosh, wish I'm clever like them! But it's true I heard my nephew saying that Chinese maids were not encouraged in SG because the men have roving eyes and are too randy.
Finally, there's just one point regarding the literacy rate among the Chinese. It's better than ever before - and the reason why I don't hate the CCP. They do make it a point to educate the masses. There's compulsory education to elementary or tertiary level. More than that, all Chinese doctors are trained in both Eastern and Western practices.