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How do you look at china and future of china

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Eau2011
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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 7:50 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:承认某种前提性的缺憾可使我们变得谨慎,也更加聪明,有劲也才可以不往一个地方使。比较是立体的,不仅要比数量、规模、实力,更重要的还得比质量、方式、方向,原创性的发明永远是最重要的。无论哪个时段的文明都是以创造性的开拓为其标志的,当今的全球化亦然。中国人不应该满足于做一个跟进者、赶超者、状元或冠军,更高的追求是做开创者、设计者,制定规则并率先而行。应该像古代中国人那样具有虽败犹荣的资本和骄傲(如果真的比不过人家),而不可以有得理不饶人的傲慢——那是根本的粗鄙

Reflecting on our shortcomings can make us cautious and smarter about choosing our future direction. We should compete not in quantity but in quality. Most importantly, we should start inventing again. The great civilisations of all times led the way with their inventions, and the same holds true today. The Chinese people should not be content to be followers or even champions, but to be pioneers, designers, leaders. We should be like the ancient Chinese who could hold their heads high, whether or not they won.



Exactly what I think. That's why I really like this article.

This sentence is missed, 而不可以有得理不饶人的傲慢——那是根本的粗鄙.
How to translate it? "We should not be arrogant, that's boorish " if it's not correct, please advise.

BTW, what is a C student?

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Postby BillyB » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 8:04 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:I was a C student in Chinese, but I'll try. My Chinese teacher should be so proud of me. Eau, please correct any mistakes.

Eau2011 wrote:中国人现在很牛,自我感觉良好,动不动就要和人家比,承认差距,但觉得差距不大,只要假以时日就可以迎头赶上。并且借一些不负责任的西方人之口,说出中国将领导世界之类的豪言壮语。我以为,这是一种很可笑的虚妄。如果我们将当今世界范围所流行的一切,无论政治、经济、文化、科技、世俗生活的方方面面都看成某种游戏,你将发现,没有一种游戏是今天的中国人发明的。从现代政治到市场经济,从航天技术到足球比赛,从奥运会到互联网,电视、电影、电话、飞机、地铁、汽车、高速公路、可口可乐、西服皮鞋、信用卡、摇滚乐、保险套……没有一样起源于中国。

Today, we Chinese are bullish and feel good about ourselves. We admit we're a little behind other countries but think that very soon we will catch up. We even subscribe to the view of some irresponsible Western thinkers that China is a world leader. To me, this is a joke. If we look at the modern world, whether as a game of politics, economics, culture, or science, none of these games were invented by modern Chinese. From government to business, from aeronautics to football, from the Olympics to the Internet, television, cinema, telephone, aeroplanes, trains, cars, expressways, Coca Cola, leather shoes, credit cards, rock music, insurance... none of these originated from China.

Eau2011 wrote:中国人的发明似乎完全集中在古代,例如著名的四大发明。所有相对世界而言的属中国的符号好像也和今天无关,例如孔子、长城、故宫、大熊猫、武侠……至于水饺、灯笼、春节这些与民俗民生有关的事物在今天仍然盛行,但也局限在国门之内或者华人世界。有没有中国人发明而又世界普遍享用的事物呢?不仅普遍享用,还要乐此不疲、缺其不可。对了,中国菜。但那好像也不能算是今天中国人发明的。世界对属中国事物的兴趣主要还是猎奇,而没有深入到生活方式不可或缺的层面。

All China's inventions are confined to the ancient world, like the four great inventions. What the world knows about China is largely irrelevant today, for example Confucius, the Great Wall, the Forbidden City, pandas, kungfu. As for dumplings, lanterns, Chinese New Year which are still part of Chinese life, they are relevant only to China. Is there any Chinese invention that has been shared with the world? Oh yes, Chinese food. But even that was not invented by modern Chinese, and to the rest of the world is merely a novelty and has not become an indispensable part of modern life.

Eau2011 wrote:今天的中国人就像一名运动员,有野心也有拿奖牌奖状的实力,但他绝不是裁判。在某个比赛项目上或许技能超群,但项目本身并不是中国人设立的。有背后的权威力量和机制控制、左右着一切,建立规则、树立标准并加以裁定,在此范围内中国人基本上是不沾边的。着急也没有用,大呼小叫不公平也于事无补。发明游戏并有人来玩是一件愿打愿挨的事。相对世界而言,今天的中国人所创造的玩法只供内需(比如手机黄段子),加以推广让大家都来玩一把基本无门。当然了,如果所有的人都来玩你的游戏,即使你玩得不如对方,那也是胜利,而且是最根本的胜利。这种胜利的滋味中国人已经很久没有尝到了。

A modern Chinese is like an athlete with drive and ability. He may excel in a sport, but he did not invent the sport nor the rules. If he is frustrated, he protests to no avail as he does not control any aspect of the sport. True victory is when everyone plays the game you invented, even when you are not the best player yourself. China has not had this type of victory in a long time.

Eau2011 wrote:在辉煌的古代,这滋味中国人是尝过的。比如满清入主中原,最后还不是汉化了吗?还不是得玩汉人的游戏,只不过比汉人玩得还好而已。汉人也不是为此而备感骄傲吗?今天可不行了,得玩别人的游戏了,就算你玩得比人家好那又有什么用?还不能算是根本意义上的胜利者。因此中国人郁闷啊。但郁闷比麻木要好,就不会虚妄地认为玩别人的游戏只要玩得高级就可以喧宾夺主了。

In the glorious past, China enjoyed such victories. Even when the Manchu invaded China, they ended up playing China's game. Today, China has to play other countries' games. Winning someone else's game is of no real significance. This is why Chinese people are depressed today. But depression is better than numbness, for at least we won't falsely believe that just being the best at someone else's game makes the game ours.

Eau2011 wrote:承认某种前提性的缺憾可使我们变得谨慎,也更加聪明,有劲也才可以不往一个地方使。比较是立体的,不仅要比数量、规模、实力,更重要的还得比质量、方式、方向,原创性的发明永远是最重要的。无论哪个时段的文明都是以创造性的开拓为其标志的,当今的全球化亦然。中国人不应该满足于做一个跟进者、赶超者、状元或冠军,更高的追求是做开创者、设计者,制定规则并率先而行。应该像古代中国人那样具有虽败犹荣的资本和骄傲(如果真的比不过人家),而不可以有得理不饶人的傲慢——那是根本的粗鄙

Reflecting on our shortcomings can make us cautious and smarter about choosing our future direction. We should compete not in quantity but in quality. Most importantly, we should start inventing again. The great civilisations of all times led the way with their inventions, and the same holds true today. The Chinese people should not be content to be followers or even champions, but to be pioneers, designers, leaders. We should be like the ancient Chinese who could hold their heads high, whether or not they won.

Eau2011 wrote:如果有一天,现代的中国人发明了一项或多项游戏(无论政治、经济、文化或者其它方面的),全世界的人都在玩,玩得兴致勃勃、非此不可,那就真的有点厉害了。但目前尚看不到这样的迹象,所以我们还是谨言慎行为好。

If one day, modern Chinese invented a game (whether in politics, economics, culture or anything else) which the whole world not only plays enthusiastically but must play, that would be something. However there are no signs that this will happen soon, so we should be modest for now.


How long did it take you to get to that level of proficiency on google translate?!

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 8:21 pm

Eau2011 wrote:This sentence is missed, 而不可以有得理不饶人的傲慢——那是根本的粗鄙.
How to translate it? "We should not be arrogant, that's boorish " if it's not correct, please advise.

BTW, what is a C student?

That sentence was really difficult for me to understand. I think it means "We should not be arrogant just because many people support us - that is fundamentally superficial." But yes, all the translation software says "boorish" though it doesn't make sense to me in context.

A C student is one who scores grade C in exams. It means I'm not very good :oops:

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 8:26 pm

tyianchang wrote:Sorry, you don't impress me as one with scholarly detachment, rather an occasional need for a primal scream.


Ask me if I care whether you are impressed or not. People like you get in the way of those trying to make a difference.

Or, to put it more bluntly, you've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a sh*t about what you think.

See... you've done it again... attempting to provide a worthless value judgment of what my posts mean to you, rather than simply addressing the content of the posts.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 8:26 pm

BillyB wrote:How long did it take you to get to that level of proficiency on google translate?!

Ten years of struggling through Mandarin in school, way before Google translate existed :) But yes, I had to google many of the terms.

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 9:07 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:This sentence is missed, 而不可以有得理不饶人的傲慢——那是根本的粗鄙.
How to translate it? "We should not be arrogant, that's boorish " if it's not correct, please advise.

BTW, what is a C student?

That sentence was really difficult for me to understand. I think it means "We should not be arrogant just because many people support us - that is fundamentally superficial." But yes, all the translation software says "boorish" though it doesn't make sense to me in context.

A C student is one who scores grade C in exams. It means I'm not very good :oops:


I think there are many differences between Mandarin in mainland and Singapore. Yet you understood everything subtle that surprised me.

For me, you are A student, no doubt! :)

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 9:14 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
tyianchang wrote:Sorry, you don't impress me as one with scholarly detachment, rather an occasional need for a primal scream.


Ask me if I care whether you are impressed or not. People like you get in the way of those trying to make a difference.

Or, to put it more bluntly, you've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a sh*t about what you think.

See... you've done it again... attempting to provide a worthless value judgment of what my posts mean to you, rather than simply addressing the content of the posts.


Yes she has done it again. :oops!:

This kind (getting too personal) seems disturbing for many people in this forum. It successfully made a debate to a fight many times.

Sadly!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 9:56 pm

:kiss: my heartfelt thanks! :wink:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 10:05 pm

Eau2011 wrote:I think there are many differences between Mandarin in mainland and Singapore. Yet you understood everything subtle that surprised me.

For me, you are A student, no doubt! :)

Thank you. I wish you had been my Mandarin teacher :)

sundaymorningstaple wrote::kiss: my heartfelt thanks! :wink:

You say jump, I say how high :kiss:

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 10:20 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:I think there are many differences between Mandarin in mainland and Singapore. Yet you understood everything subtle that surprised me.

For me, you are A student, no doubt! :)

Thank you. I wish you had been my Mandarin teacher :)

The problem is in future I'll be dependent on you to translate interesting Chinese articles here in the forum. :)

We can be a very good team, I search some interesting Chinese articles, you translate into English. It's a good idea?

These articles do open interesting perspectives. :)

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 11:39 pm

Eau2011 wrote:The problem is in future I'll be dependent on you to translate interesting Chinese articles here in the forum. :)

We can be a very good team, I search some interesting Chinese articles, you translate into English. It's a good idea?

These articles do open interesting perspectives. :)

I wish I could say it would be a pleasure, but it won't :wink: It was quite tortuous actually, and I had to check the meaning of many nouns, and read some sentences a few times to figure out what they meant.

Feel free to post though. If I'm home with nothing to do on a rainy day, like today, I may practise my Mandarin again :D

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 11:51 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:The problem is in future I'll be dependent on you to translate interesting Chinese articles here in the forum. :)

We can be a very good team, I search some interesting Chinese articles, you translate into English. It's a good idea?

These articles do open interesting perspectives. :)

I wish I could say it would be a pleasure, but it won't :wink: It was quite tortuous actually, and I had to check the meaning of many nouns, and read some sentences a few times to figure out what they meant.

Feel free to post though. If I'm home with nothing to do on a rainy day, like today, I may practise my Mandarin again :D


Thanks again.

I have tried to use google to translate and do some corrections afterwards. But it's really a disaster because there are many sentences which don't make any sense at all. And I'm too lazy to translate the complete article, besides, my English is limited to express it in a beautiful way.

So I did appreciate your work. :)

I was a bit kidding with that (more work for you). So I will try to use the translated version in future. There are some volunteers who do the translations, I have to say, great respect!

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 07 Mar 2011 8:15 am

Eau2011 wrote:I have tried to use google to translate and do some corrections afterwards. But it's really a disaster because there are many sentences which don't make any sense at all.

Google translate works much better between languages with similar syntax and vocabulary, like most of the European languages which share Latin roots. Between totally different language structures and word forms like Chinese and English, it's disastrous.

After I translated the article and already knew what it said, I tried google translate and almost fell off my chair laughing at the very first sentence: "Chinese people are cattle..."

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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 07 Mar 2011 1:47 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
tyianchang wrote:Sorry, you don't impress me as one with scholarly detachment, rather an occasional need for a primal scream.


Ask me if I care whether you are impressed or not. People like you get in the way of those trying to make a difference.

Or, to put it more bluntly, you've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a sh*t about what you think.

See... you've done it again... attempting to provide a worthless value judgment of what my posts mean to you, rather than simply addressing the content of the posts.


Yet astonishingly Auntie Chiang is the first to complain about others' aggression and not staying on topic.

She reminds me of that Chinese woman on 'Mind Your Language' . . . the monotone, red-book loving, single-minded clone of clones
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby ksl » Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:37 pm

Eau2011 wrote:
x9200 wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:Like in the news, "Washington considers to...", "....Beijing is...".etc.

I guess the cities would not think, here are the governments and of cause the people sitting in their offices meant. :wink: Is it a good analog?

Excellent analogy! Those clueless newscasters... Vaucluse should spank them all :lol:

Mealsothinks it is commonly used in such meaning and not only in English. Enough to run google to see who uses it. Besides, speaking about being pedantic, china has definitely memory and it can be determined by thermoluminescent dating techniques :P
....but it will be a spelling error then.


Yes fine bone China :)


Fine bone China, guess who? Picture edited no permission to publish.
Last edited by ksl on Wed, 16 Mar 2011 2:38 am, edited 2 times in total.


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