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How do you look at china and future of china

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Postby tyianchang » Sat, 05 Mar 2011 10:43 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
tyianchang wrote:What's this - always telling me what my beliefs should be???


Hmmm... considering that I have made exactly two posts here, I find your term 'always' somewhat wanting.

The larger issue, however, is your assertion that I am telling you what your beliefs should be?

Wherever did you get this cockamamie idea? I have stated what I think to be the situation. How in the world did you interpret that I am telling you what your beliefs should be? Unless of course, your psyche is not very integrated, in which case I can understand how you might perceive my opinion as something being forced upon you.

Having done a lot of work in the area of psychological integration, I'd be more than happy to discuss with you steps you might take to become more whole; otherwise, you will spend your life, with various parts of your conscious and subconscious stuck, way back when, with predictable results... such as your interpretation that I am telling you what your beliefs should be.


Sorry, you don't impress me as one with scholarly detachment, rather an occasional need for a primal scream. I find your aggression disturbing for a psychologist and thank you, I dig Jung but you're probably Freudian. Schmuck, whatever that means. I am as predictable as your stereotyping can stretch; but really I have sensed your emotional intelligence, so just be happy with yourself and let the others find their own paths. Have you lived and searched in India? But all things considered, you're doing quite well; just don't try to sell by telling people they'rve got something missing like a front tooth when it's there. Hehehe. Have a nice day.
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Postby tyianchang » Sat, 05 Mar 2011 10:52 pm

JR8 wrote:
tyianchang wrote:It was while looking for the fabulous 'Cathay' that the Portuguese and Spaniards discovered America.


You said that you used to be a teacher? Not of history I trust!

Image


JR8 you do better with pictures as they're easier to manipulate. But say, what do you do yourself? I do like Malay baju kurongs and kebayas, really, and Kedah silk is quite good too.
A teacher I might be in private but on the forum, one's just a common nobody; and of course, you know, it's better not to be a pedagogue where learning is not valued. I'm just forumsing.
But are you telling me you're of Viking roots, and not native like the Picts, Celts, Angles, Anglo-Saxons or earlier migrants like the Phoenicians , Romans or Normans?
Have a nice day.
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Postby JR8 » Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:38 pm

tyianchang wrote:Sorry, you don't impress me as one with scholarly detachment, rather an occasional need for a primal scream. I find your aggression disturbing for a psychologist and thank you, I dig Jung but you're probably Freudian. Schmuck, whatever that means. I am as predictable as your stereotyping can stretch; but really I have sensed your emotional intelligence, so just be happy with yourself and let the others find their own paths. Have you lived and searched in India? But all things considered, you're doing quite well; just don't try to sell by telling people they'rve got something missing like a front tooth when it's there. Hehehe. Have a nice day.


'Going off the rails'

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:21 am

tyianchang wrote:
JR8 wrote:
tyianchang wrote:It was while looking for the fabulous 'Cathay' that the Portuguese and Spaniards discovered America.


You said that you used to be a teacher? Not of history I trust!

JR8 you do better with pictures as they're easier to manipulate. ...
A teacher I might be in private but on the forum, one's just a common nobody; and of course, you know, it's better not to be a pedagogue where learning is not valued. I'm just forumsing.


Given that you say you hadn't heard of Adolf Hitler until the 1980s I suppose it is only to be expected that you have apparently not heard of the Vikings Erik the Red and his son Leif Ericson.

Making the the mistake of stating that North America was 'discovered' by Spanish/Portugese is one thing, but repeating and compounding that mistake by insisting that I must somehow be involved in a conspiracy to fake graphics in order to deceive you into believing something else is well... highly amusing!

You appear to suggest that this is 'just a forum' and hence there is no need to be factually correct as you believe that people here have no interest in learning. Unfortunately one side-effect of this belief is that you simply end up looking stupendously ignorant.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Postby tyianchang » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 1:53 am

JR8 wrote:
tyianchang wrote:
JR8 wrote:
tyianchang wrote:It was while looking for the fabulous 'Cathay' that the Portuguese and Spaniards discovered America.


You said that you used to be a teacher? Not of history I trust!

JR8 you do better with pictures as they're easier to manipulate. ...
A teacher I might be in private but on the forum, one's just a common nobody; and of course, you know, it's better not to be a pedagogue where learning is not valued. I'm just forumsing.


Given that you say you hadn't heard of Adolf Hitler until the 1980s I suppose it is only to be expected that you have apparently not heard of the Vikings Erik the Red and his son Leif Ericson.

Yes, we were so protected, we weren't aware of the cruelties outside but I would say, not many have heard of Erik the red today either.

Making the the mistake of stating that North America was 'discovered' by Spanish/Portugese is one thing, but repeating and compounding that mistake by insisting that I must somehow be involved in a conspiracy to fake graphics in order to deceive you into believing something else is well... highly amusing!

Gosh, you're all weight by the tons. It'l be more cool if you can just discuss instead of nag. As it happened, my Swedish son-in-law, told me often that the Vikings were the frist to reach America, after the indigenous of course. In fact, I'd read a humoourous book about the Vikings, so long ago, I have to confirm the writer with Robert. It's about Eric the red alright and he had had dealings with the ME in that book.
You're reading too much into what I said. Read again - " that you were involved with a conspiracy to fake graphics in order to deceive me ..."??? I said it's easier to manipulate photos than maps - the facts are there in your map which I happend to like. But if there's a misinterpretation, I had the impression that you were showing me you were a Viking descendent.
The point is the Vikings went there and might have a small population settled along the coasts but it's not till the discovery by Columbus and Amerigo Vespuci that Europe flocked to the US.
The Portuguese and Spanish did discover the America as we know it today while looking for the passage East to find Cathay. There's no need to blur the fact with personal tits for tats.

You appear to suggest that this is 'just a forum' and hence there is no need to be factually correct as you believe that people here have no interest in learning. Unfortunately one side-effect of this belief is that you simply end up looking stupendously ignorant.


Yes, if that'll stop you reading me but you can't wait to twist my words yet again. I said in my newbie thread my location was 'forumsing' which is for forum in singapore. Above, I said I was just a common nobody, and not as what you'd repeated above which are your words and NOT MINE.

Anyway, I'm too slim to suggest anything stupendous about myself however hard you try to distort anything I say.
What do you do yourself and jeez, why do you spend so much time on straining me? I suppose it makes you gleeful to see an old woman off her trolley. literally, so to say? My, that's quite abnormal.

You really must learn to talk and not go nitpicking all the time. It does make you look so silly when you're really not that ridiculous you know. Goodbye.
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Postby JR8 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 2:48 am

Do you not think it might be a good investment of your time to write in a version of English that people better understand? You suggest you are frequently misunderstand, well it is little surprise to me I must say.

p.s.
"The point is the Vikings went there and might have a small population settled along the coasts but it's not till the discovery by Columbus and Amerigo Vespuci that Europe flocked to the US.
The Portuguese and Spanish did discover the America as we know it today
"

I'd imagine there was probably a negligible change in the North America that Ericson discovered, and that by Columbus, and so I'd suggest your latter point is both incorrect and meaningless.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Postby earthfriendly » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:17 pm

Strong Eagle wrote: Just one more example of China failing to live up to its responsibilities as a world power.


China is a long way off from practicing these responsibilities. It is in a survival mode trying to ensure its large population has the basic necessities and the country does not disintegrate. Central govt is central to their governing style since Imperial times. It is all they know how to do. Even if they want to offer democracy to citizenry, would they know even where to start? There's no manual like "Democratic Government for Dummies" they can consult. LKY was shocked they brought out the tank against the student protesters in Tiannamen and when he inquired how come with the chinese leaders, they said they were at a loss on how to response.

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Postby earthfriendly » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:24 pm

ksl wrote:
So people the next time you put that food in your mouth, make sure you know where it was made! :o


I try to avoid made-in-china for food stuff that I put into my mouth. Other things for daily use like bowls, plates and garments, I can deal with. The food manufacturers there have to work very hard to regain consumers' trust.

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 3:54 pm

Strong Eagle wrote: Just look at some of the 'deals' made in Africa... cheap roads agreed to by some corrupt dictator, while China walks away with the lion's share of the resources.

No, there is nothing to be proud of, beating the US in contracts. Just one more example of China failing to live up to its responsibilities as a world power.

=D> =D>

Exactly that made me worried. If all the countries want to build a better world together, the strongers should take responsibilities.
Last edited by Eau2011 on Sun, 06 Mar 2011 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 4:57 pm

Strong Eagle wrote: "China fighting off the world?" You seem to have some serious misconceptions about where China came from and where it is going to.

The Chinese today behave the way they do because they have been screwed, shafted, cheated, and killed by their leaders. If you don't get yours then you don't get anything. And the leadership reflects this attitude in its global dealings.

The Chinese have invented lots of things, created massive civilizations while Europe was in a morass and the new world yet discovered. That does not absolve them from the fact that they now spew their tainted baby formulas across the world, in a variety of programs, because they have not yet gained enough political maturity to solve the problem. For one thing, until there is an independent judiciary, the government will always be corrupt.

In closing, frankly, I don't care whether I gain your respect or not. You are not someone whose opinion of who I am matters much to me.


Yeah, independent judiciary司法独立,that's also Chinese people have been talking long and hope to have it, unfortunately it still does not exist. Sad. :-|

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 5:00 pm

ksl wrote:One thing the Chinese didn't invent was DVD's :P and they invent very little today, as they lack the technological skills to do so. But they do copy and steal technology from other MNC.

In fact DVD's evolved from CD techology and these companies were mostly Japanese and American in a joint effort.



An article written in Chinese by Chinese, same opinon as yours.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4fe548220100gof8.html
Last edited by Eau2011 on Sun, 06 Mar 2011 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 5:13 pm

Doesn't do us non-Chinese speaking folks any good though does it. We just have to take your word for it. Using google translate to view the actual page is a help, but very tedious due to translation differences to have an easy go at it.

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 6:05 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Doesn't do us non-Chinese speaking folks any good though does it. We just have to take your word for it. Using google translate to view the actual page is a help, but very tedious due to translation differences to have an easy go at it.


Yes SMS, got it, and deleted.
Using google tranlation is a disaster. There are just too many mistakes with that you will be totally confused. :???:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 7:16 pm

I was a C student in Chinese, but I'll try. My Chinese teacher should be so proud of me. Eau, please correct any mistakes.

Eau2011 wrote:中国人现在很牛,自我感觉良好,动不动就要和人家比,承认差距,但觉得差距不大,只要假以时日就可以迎头赶上。并且借一些不负责任的西方人之口,说出中国将领导世界之类的豪言壮语。我以为,这是一种很可笑的虚妄。如果我们将当今世界范围所流行的一切,无论政治、经济、文化、科技、世俗生活的方方面面都看成某种游戏,你将发现,没有一种游戏是今天的中国人发明的。从现代政治到市场经济,从航天技术到足球比赛,从奥运会到互联网,电视、电影、电话、飞机、地铁、汽车、高速公路、可口可乐、西服皮鞋、信用卡、摇滚乐、保险套……没有一样起源于中国。

Today, we Chinese are bullish and feel good about ourselves. We admit we're a little behind other countries but think that very soon we will catch up. We even subscribe to the view of some irresponsible Western thinkers that China is a world leader. To me, this is a joke. If we look at the modern world, whether as a game of politics, economics, culture, or science, none of these games were invented by modern Chinese. From government to business, from aeronautics to football, from the Olympics to the Internet, television, cinema, telephone, aeroplanes, trains, cars, expressways, Coca Cola, leather shoes, credit cards, rock music, insurance... none of these originated from China.

Eau2011 wrote:中国人的发明似乎完全集中在古代,例如著名的四大发明。所有相对世界而言的属中国的符号好像也和今天无关,例如孔子、长城、故宫、大熊猫、武侠……至于水饺、灯笼、春节这些与民俗民生有关的事物在今天仍然盛行,但也局限在国门之内或者华人世界。有没有中国人发明而又世界普遍享用的事物呢?不仅普遍享用,还要乐此不疲、缺其不可。对了,中国菜。但那好像也不能算是今天中国人发明的。世界对属中国事物的兴趣主要还是猎奇,而没有深入到生活方式不可或缺的层面。

All China's inventions are confined to the ancient world, like the four great inventions. What the world knows about China is largely irrelevant today, for example Confucius, the Great Wall, the Forbidden City, pandas, kungfu. As for dumplings, lanterns, Chinese New Year which are still part of Chinese life, they are relevant only to China. Is there any Chinese invention that has been shared with the world? Oh yes, Chinese food. But even that was not invented by modern Chinese, and to the rest of the world is merely a novelty and has not become an indispensable part of modern life.

Eau2011 wrote:今天的中国人就像一名运动员,有野心也有拿奖牌奖状的实力,但他绝不是裁判。在某个比赛项目上或许技能超群,但项目本身并不是中国人设立的。有背后的权威力量和机制控制、左右着一切,建立规则、树立标准并加以裁定,在此范围内中国人基本上是不沾边的。着急也没有用,大呼小叫不公平也于事无补。发明游戏并有人来玩是一件愿打愿挨的事。相对世界而言,今天的中国人所创造的玩法只供内需(比如手机黄段子),加以推广让大家都来玩一把基本无门。当然了,如果所有的人都来玩你的游戏,即使你玩得不如对方,那也是胜利,而且是最根本的胜利。这种胜利的滋味中国人已经很久没有尝到了。

A modern Chinese is like an athlete with drive and ability. He may excel in a sport, but he did not invent the sport nor the rules. If he is frustrated, he protests to no avail as he does not control any aspect of the sport. True victory is when everyone plays the game you invented, even when you are not the best player yourself. China has not had this type of victory in a long time.

Eau2011 wrote:在辉煌的古代,这滋味中国人是尝过的。比如满清入主中原,最后还不是汉化了吗?还不是得玩汉人的游戏,只不过比汉人玩得还好而已。汉人也不是为此而备感骄傲吗?今天可不行了,得玩别人的游戏了,就算你玩得比人家好那又有什么用?还不能算是根本意义上的胜利者。因此中国人郁闷啊。但郁闷比麻木要好,就不会虚妄地认为玩别人的游戏只要玩得高级就可以喧宾夺主了。

In the glorious past, China enjoyed such victories. Even when the Manchu invaded China, they ended up playing China's game. Today, China has to play other countries' games. Winning someone else's game is of no real significance. This is why Chinese people are depressed today. But depression is better than numbness, for at least we won't falsely believe that just being the best at someone else's game makes the game ours.

Eau2011 wrote:承认某种前提性的缺憾可使我们变得谨慎,也更加聪明,有劲也才可以不往一个地方使。比较是立体的,不仅要比数量、规模、实力,更重要的还得比质量、方式、方向,原创性的发明永远是最重要的。无论哪个时段的文明都是以创造性的开拓为其标志的,当今的全球化亦然。中国人不应该满足于做一个跟进者、赶超者、状元或冠军,更高的追求是做开创者、设计者,制定规则并率先而行。应该像古代中国人那样具有虽败犹荣的资本和骄傲(如果真的比不过人家),而不可以有得理不饶人的傲慢——那是根本的粗鄙

Reflecting on our shortcomings can make us cautious and smarter about choosing our future direction. We should compete not in quantity but in quality. Most importantly, we should start inventing again. The great civilisations of all times led the way with their inventions, and the same holds true today. The Chinese people should not be content to be followers or even champions, but to be pioneers, designers, leaders. We should be like the ancient Chinese who could hold their heads high, whether or not they won.

Eau2011 wrote:如果有一天,现代的中国人发明了一项或多项游戏(无论政治、经济、文化或者其它方面的),全世界的人都在玩,玩得兴致勃勃、非此不可,那就真的有点厉害了。但目前尚看不到这样的迹象,所以我们还是谨言慎行为好。

If one day, modern Chinese invented a game (whether in politics, economics, culture or anything else) which the whole world not only plays enthusiastically but must play, that would be something. However there are no signs that this will happen soon, so we should be modest for now.

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 06 Mar 2011 7:24 pm

Before I read it completely, I have to say "You are so wonderful!!!! "

Thank you, WIMH, I appreciate it.
=D> =D>
Last edited by Eau2011 on Sun, 06 Mar 2011 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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