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How do you look at china and future of china

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:46 pm

Manthink wrote:If I am Mao (yes the the evil smug looking guy in the center), I would be flattered by Dr. Rex Curry for placing me along with the kill scores of those 2 gentlemen with facial hair...wohoo! 35 million!

Trouble is I cannot take the entire credit since Mother-nature was on my side when She worked her drought and flood magic during GLF.


Oh Lord, not another apologist :roll:

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:55 pm

nakatago wrote:Dude...dining room table. DINING. ROOM. EFFIN'. TABLE.



Ah sh4t it's not easy man, when faced with an open goal and a delirious goalie!


hehehe... :lol:

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Postby paulzheng » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:58 pm

JR8 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6gM7XOLE5s&NR=1

Take this [thwack! :)]

He basicly summarises by saying 'if you think this European parliament has democratic support [i.e. inferring that it doesn't], then put it to a popular vote [which they will never do, as they know how hated they are]. Then he finishes off with a bit of latin.

and again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2-Nv9Awgak

William Hague (current Foreign Secretary) is also a fantastic speaker. This is an example from when the Tories were in opposition, again it is Gordon Brown getting it directly in the neck. You perhaps need to be quite attuned to UK politics to get the subtleties of the humour... but the delivery and style are great even if you don't get the killer nuances :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Cj1b-rp1E

I mean he is a class speaker...
:)


Hi JR8,

Thanks very much for your sharing. I listen them quite several times, but i still need to listen more to fully understand them.

I would to say that i can not well understand the humour of William Hague, I think that need i to know much more background before i can understand. So i can only feel jelous about those people who are listening the speak of Hague, they keep to laughing so happy, hehe.

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Postby Eau2011 » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:08 am

tyianchang wrote: I've known scores of Chinese students and lecturers, post PHD researches etc and no one of them ever talk about fear or national security. It makes me wonder why you keep on at it, that's all.


I can tell you why. A friend of my friend was asked by national security to work for them before he moved to Germany. He refused it.

All we Chinese in Germany know there are staffs from national security there, they work as a business men and have companies there, you will never know their real identities.

And I had personally contact with a guy from national security from Beijing when I was beginning of 20's and still in China, because the boss of our company is the son-in-law of a retired high-ranking military officer, he invited his old friends from Beijing for the opening, they were all from national security. One of those guys was 30's, on his name card it's managing director of a company. But he is a staff from NS, that's normally how it works. He ran after me and invited me to Beijing.

So I can tell you I have reason to be alert.

If the people with whom you had contact are always pro CCP, of cause they don't need to talk about fear or NS. But as you know, I'm critical about CCP, so I might get problems.

Because I know there are Chinese who are not allowed to enter China and see their families, they died in exile, e.g. Liu Binyan and many others. And some who are not allowed to go abroad, e.g. Zeng Jinyan and many others.

As long as my parents are still alive, I need to enter China to see them or my parents need to go abroad to see me.

I understand as an overseas Chinese you are fascinated by economic miracle of China and the fact China's going to be future super power or whatsoever, but as a native-born Chinese I remain critical because what China exactly needs is critical voices, only this way the world can become better.

I hope you understand.

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Postby tyianchang » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 1:03 am

ksl wrote:
Chinese students and lecturers, post PHD researches etc and no one of them ever talk about fear or national security. It makes me wonder why you keep on at it, that's all.


If you consider all the above students, lecturers, and post PHD researchers, you will discover, that they are hand picked, due to their loyalty program and supported by government subsidies, and/or relatives to high cadre officials. Only the cream used to be allowed out back in the 90's as passports had to be applied for, from the national security police.

So every student that was thought to be a flight risk, would not be allowed to travel outside of China, that used to be fact. Though i cannot answer for today, even though I know it's easier to travel overseas now.

There is a price to pay the communist party, if you want your University documentation and it really wasn't affordable for Chinese degree holders back then, but some changes have been implemented for the good communist...not much for the bad ones :) scholarships would be out of the question for example, no matter how you bent over backwards, and family members would have to support the one absconding to secure a better life for filial piety. I believe it's the same today. So the one's you get to meet in western Universities are mostly the new super rich or well connected.


I met those students, researchers etc in the 80s onwards. It's true what you pointed out about the connections but I suspect this is the practice of the 'guanxis' from old China. Some traditions never die.

I had a close friend, a lecturer at SOAS, who came from absolute poverty. She told me that her family had to eat leaves in the famine of the 60s. She only had her mum and brother as dad died in the war. She was sustained to university education by the state. At one stage, she was expected to return to her job at the uni in Beijing or lose her flat in the campus, but she stayed on in the UK; and when she returned much, much later, they still hadn't taken away her flat!

I met a variety of Chinese, most must be well connected; but there were also students from the middle section , whose parents were doctors, artists or teachers. I liked them for they had such a refinement in their manners and social conduct. They were also quick to see a joke. Some of joked about each other too and the Shanghainese were not thought of highly by the Beijingers who are suposed to have the moral superiority over the others due to their conservative nature. I experienced a couple of truly honest taxi driver and rickshaw man while I was in Beijing in 1999. Both these men, substantiated for me, independently, that the 50s was the golden age.

Even then, in the early 80s, there was a middle- aged professor who told me that the 50s was the golden age of China. She epitomized the real China for me - simple, quietly spoken and morally upright. Honesty shone through her fine face and texture of skin. Though they were still poor then, comparartively speaking by our material standards, they were free of avarice and had no resentments of any kind.

Times have changed - I haven't been to China since my trip in April and our tour in August - 1999. I first went to find out about the Beijing 2nd Interntional Piano Competition for my daughter, so I met a few people at the Beijing Coservatory, but it was their holidays, so there weren't any children around, and the pianos had a film of dust over them. However, these days, it's said that there're millions of young pianists in China.
I went back in August with daughter and son-in-law all the way from Beijing to Wuxi. It wasn't easy to make close friends in China as I read, but in our case, the husband and family of our lecturer friend treated us like real guests. Her husband acted like my tourist guide, showed us his uni flat, treated us to meals and took me to the section of the great wall that Clinton had visited. He drove us to meet their family who took us out for a meal in a town outisde Beijing. But we didn't visit their home.
At one stage in Beijing, my daughter nearly died of dengue fever or malaria - she was saved by the Working People's uni doctor for about two GBP for 6 sessions. /color]
tyianchang

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 1:31 am

paulzheng wrote:
JR8 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6gM7XOLE5s&NR=1

Take this [thwack! :)]

He basicly summarises by saying 'if you think this European parliament has democratic support [i.e. inferring that it doesn't], then put it to a popular vote [which they will never do, as they know how hated they are]. Then he finishes off with a bit of latin.

and again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2-Nv9Awgak

William Hague (current Foreign Secretary) is also a fantastic speaker. This is an example from when the Tories were in opposition, again it is Gordon Brown getting it directly in the neck. You perhaps need to be quite attuned to UK politics to get the subtleties of the humour... but the delivery and style are great even if you don't get the killer nuances :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Cj1b-rp1E

I mean he is a class speaker...
:)


Hi JR8,

Thanks very much for your sharing. I listen them quite several times, but i still need to listen more to fully understand them.

I would to say that i can not well understand the humour of William Hague, I think that need i to know much more background before i can understand. So i can only feel jelous about those people who are listening the speak of Hague, they keep to laughing so happy, hehe.


I'm glad you enjoyed those Paul. Yes, they are both quite challenging in their own ways.

Hannan, is just one of those guys who has that intellectual 'glow' about him. But he is understated and modest, and so I think his style is even more powerful. It is not unusual for me to have to reach for a dictionary after reading an article by him.

Yes I can understand if you have a problem understanding Hague, I expect 95% of non-Brits would. Most of that linked speech was him poking fun at Gordon Brown (the then PM), regarding Blair who was lining himself up to become President of Europe. Of course the two were almost lifelong bitter rivals, so the joke is about Brown having to 'bow and nod' to a new President Blair and how Brown's ego/personality might deal with that. Still, you certainly cannot be expected to understand that!

The beauty of it is how he so delicately and yet incisively plays on all of Brown and Blair's personal weaknesses. That is why even the targets (the party opposite in general) cannot help but laugh almost uncontrollably!

p.s. Hague's overall point, in which he is using humour, is that the EU was presenting the post of President as just a token 'honorary' position. But that in time, it is planned and inevitable that the role will be as significant as that of the President of the US. And so that the situation presented was so transparent, that it amounted to a virtual deception of the member states and peoples.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 1:48 am

tyianchang wrote:At one stage in Beijing, my daughter nearly died of dengue fever or malaria - she was saved by the Working People's uni doctor for about two GBP for 6 sessions.



The fact it cost £12 seems more important than your daughter almost dying.

Er, Dengue, Malaria, er a bit of a difference! :o

It is nothing short of stunning that you apparently do not know what she had contracted that almost killed her!

Still, up the Working People's eh!

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Postby tyianchang » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 4:27 am

Eau2011 wrote:
tyianchang wrote: I've known scores of Chinese students and lecturers, post PHD researches etc and no one of them ever talk about fear or national security. It makes me wonder why you keep on at it, that's all.


I can tell you why. A friend of my friend was asked by national security to work for them before he moved to Germany. He refused it.

All we Chinese in Germany know there are staffs from national security there, they work as a business men and have companies there, you will never know their real identities.

And I had personally contact with a guy from national security from Beijing when I was beginning of 20's and still in China, because the boss of our company is the son-in-law of a retired high-ranking military officer, he invited his old friends from Beijing for the opening, they were all from national security. One of those guys was 30's, on his name card it's managing director of a company. But he is a staff from NS, that's normally how it works. He ran after me and invited me to Beijing.

So I can tell you I have reason to be alert.

If the people with whom you had contact are always pro CCP, of cause they don't need to talk about fear or NS. But as you know, I'm critical about CCP, so I might get problems.

Because I know there are Chinese who are not allowed to enter China and see their families, they died in exile, e.g. Liu Binyan and many others. And some who are not allowed to go abroad, e.g. Zeng Jinyan and many others.

As long as my parents are still alive, I need to enter China to see them or my parents need to go abroad to see me.

I understand as an overseas Chinese you are fascinated by economic miracle of China and the fact China's going to be future super power or whatsoever, but as a native-born Chinese I remain critical because what China exactly needs is critical voices, only this way the world can become better.

I hope you understand.


I can understand. Not long ago, I toured Europe with 28 relations for their long European coach holiday. I met someone working in a church who told me that she had to work with the German police to identify all Chinese people in that part of Germany. I remember telling her that that sounded racist but she argued that it's for national good as there might be too many immigrants to the country. She's S'prean now German, married to a German. But sh'e doing that for the German govt and has nothing to do with China. This is all sounding very weird.
Finally, if you read what I've discussed so far, I'm not bothered with the economic miracle of China today, and I don't like those looking up to super power status. Power corrupts.
I was mainly interested in Chinese philosophy and the plight of China from the 18 century to the day Mao said, China has stood up. But from then on, it's full of fascinating events in continuity. From the Chinese I'd met, I'd recognised them to be really beautiful people who always come clean in their words and actions. They're gentle, kindly and humourous, apart from being amazingly brilliant, quick witted and hard-wroking. This is what China means to me. I hope all this materialism today won't change their nature.
tyianchang

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Postby Manthink » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 8:37 am

JR8 wrote:
Manthink wrote:If I am Mao (yes the the evil smug looking guy in the center), I would be flattered by Dr. Rex Curry for placing me along with the kill scores of those 2 gentlemen with facial hair...wohoo! 35 million!

Trouble is I cannot take the entire credit since Mother-nature was on my side when She worked her drought and flood magic during GLF.


Oh Lord, not another apologist :roll:


Image
oh com'on!

It that all? Do I deserve such label in short order without checking the facts that I had presented?

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 8:51 am

Manthink wrote:
JR8 wrote:
Manthink wrote:If I am Mao (yes the the evil smug looking guy in the center), I would be flattered by Dr. Rex Curry for placing me along with the kill scores of those 2 gentlemen with facial hair...wohoo! 35 million!

Trouble is I cannot take the entire credit since Mother-nature was on my side when She worked her drought and flood magic during GLF.


Oh Lord, not another apologist :roll:


Image
oh com'on!

It that all? Do I deserve such label in short order without checking the facts that I had presented?



You have presented conjecture and not facts.

Oh, and plus you are a newbie lol.

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 8:57 am

Manthink wrote:
JR8 wrote:
Manthink wrote:If I am Mao (yes the the evil smug looking guy in the center), I would be flattered by Dr. Rex Curry for placing me along with the kill scores of those 2 gentlemen with facial hair...wohoo! 35 million!

Trouble is I cannot take the entire credit since Mother-nature was on my side when She worked her drought and flood magic during GLF.


Oh Lord, not another apologist :roll:


Image
oh com'on!

It that all? Do I deserve such label in short order without checking the facts that I had presented?


Sorry kid; but with four posts as of press time, the burden of proof is on you.

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Postby Vaucluse » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 9:33 am

Apologists for a murderous and generally barbaric rule must find it quite secure to hide behind empty rhetoric . . . and SMS has a new girl/boyfriend. :lol: She lub him lon tine
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 10:04 am

All cats are gray in the dark! Anyway, at my age.......

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Postby Manthink » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 2:36 pm

JR8 wrote:
Manthink wrote:
JR8 wrote:
Manthink wrote:If I am Mao (yes the the evil smug looking guy in the center), I would be flattered by Dr. Rex Curry for placing me along with the kill scores of those 2 gentlemen with facial hair...wohoo! 35 million!

Trouble is I cannot take the entire credit since Mother-nature was on my side when She worked her drought and flood magic during GLF.


Oh Lord, not another apologist :roll:


Image
oh com'on!

It that all? Do I deserve such label in short order without checking the facts that I had presented?



You have presented conjecture and not facts.
Oh, and plus you are a newbie lol.


What conjecture? Care to elobrate ? :wink:

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Postby Manthink » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 2:46 pm

nakatago wrote:
Manthink wrote:
JR8 wrote:
Manthink wrote:If I am Mao (yes the the evil smug looking guy in the center), I would be flattered by Dr. Rex Curry for placing me along with the kill scores of those 2 gentlemen with facial hair...wohoo! 35 million!

Trouble is I cannot take the entire credit since Mother-nature was on my side when She worked her drought and flood magic during GLF.


Oh Lord, not another apologist :roll:


Image
oh com'on!

It that all? Do I deserve such label in short order without checking the facts that I had presented?


Sorry kid; but with four posts as of press time, the burden of proof is on you.


You don't have to be apologetic... :)
And it doesn't matter if I am a "kid", a "newbie" or whatever you assumed.

As the OP said, he/she wants people to share their thoughts about China, not how they think of one another this forum, no? :wink:


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