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How do you look at china and future of china

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Eau2011
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Postby Eau2011 » Sat, 26 Feb 2011 6:03 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:What a fascinating thread! I have two thoughts on China.

Firstly, a friend once shared an interesting perspective: wherever the Chinese diaspora has gone, it has done well economically because the Chinese have a strong drive to succeed. I agree and believe that once the CCP old guard gets out of the way (as eventually they must through sheer mortality) and the younger generation take over, China will do well once again. And unlike some of you, I hope to see this in my lifetime :)

Secondly, it's a gargantuan task to govern a billion people spread over a huge land mass. LKY once said that he might not have succeeded with China the way he did with Singapore. To speak of 'China' as if it were one place would be misleading. Most of the world sees only some parts of China, namely the commercial city centres. The urban rich / rural poor divide and the redistribution of wealth is more severe and more difficult for China than for most countries. It will take a government with outstanding organisational skills to level the playing field and rally the country.

Sorry if these points have already been made. I glanced through the entire thread but can't remember all the details in previous posts.


I made the same point regarding the old guys and political reform. :) But I have to tell you the future president Xi Jinping is unfortunately a conservative one. :(

And I hope to see too, but I am very unsure if I could see it in my lifetime, though I'm still young.

I remember what I read on the magazine "der Spiegel": Deng decided to open China's door to the world and start an economic reform after he visited Singapore early 1970's. LKY has inspired him.

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Postby Eau2011 » Sat, 26 Feb 2011 6:17 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote: Secondly, it's a gargantuan task to govern a billion people spread over a huge land mass. LKY once said that he might not have succeeded with China the way he did with Singapore. To speak of 'China' as if it were one place would be misleading. Most of the world sees only some parts of China, namely the commercial city centres. The urban rich / rural poor divide and the redistribution of wealth is more severe and more difficult for China than for most countries. It will take a government with outstanding organisational skills to level the playing field and rally the country.

Sorry if these points have already been made. I glanced through the entire thread but can't remember all the details in previous posts.


I think western countries are aware of the huge gap between rich and poor, I often read and saw it in the media. But the reasons why the gap is caused have to be pointed out here, that's exactly the corruption. In China it's said "if you got power, you will be rich". Unlike the fair play we mostly see in the western world. In China the rich people are those who have political power, or their relatives, friends etc. But of cause I believe there are some who made it by their hard work.

Like JR8 has said, after government handover, probably there is no money left in the treasury. Every year many high-ranking CCP cadres transferred their fortune out of China. And this, I read on Chinese newspaper.

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Re: How do you look at china and future of china

Postby Vaucluse » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 1:35 pm

tyianchang wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:


He/she is a bit special . . . disagree and he calls you names and says how the other person can't hold a discussion . . . piss-weak attitude, but quite typical for mainlanders defending their country's barbaric actions



Highly unlikely for there to be a hermaphrodite around though I don't know about you. And wow, so many allegations as usual. I just find your TOV so unpleasant; perhaps you can pitch it right for a proper discussion. Anyway, since you bother to moan about god knows what... err??? I think you're losing that sparkle but you can count on me not to befuddle your once brilliant wit. It's nothing.


As English is clearly not your first language (nothing wrong with that whatsoever) I'll not comment on your repeated lack of comprehension . . . as for your obvious penchant for hermaphrodites, entirely your choice.
I have no idea, nor does it alter the thread, as to which gender you are, hence the '/' instead of a '+', which would have indicated a cross gender comment.

The rest of your diatribe . . . no idea what you're trying to say, very much like Bigfilsing

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
bigfilsing wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:
tyianchang wrote: Nah, your imperatives don't go down well with me. You do have an ulterior motive, that's why it's not an open discussion. I'll leave you to smear and garner the support of those who trust your motives.


:lol: :lol:
Motive???? If someone does not agree with you, does not agree with CCP, then he/she must have an ulterior motive?? or you branded him/her anything (bully, aggressive New Yorker etc.). I guess YOU have an ulterior background.



He/she is a bit special . . . disagree and he calls you names and says how the other person can't hold a discussion . . . piss-weak attitude, but quite typical for mainlanders defending their country's barbaric actions


Never seen quite so much or consistent bollocks in all my life.

Talk about a country you know about or STFU

Wit and IQ will never replace common thought ,,,whether you agree or not
Maybe your sentiments would be better directed to Mr Mubarack in his current cocoon with other self righteous idiots
Come the revolution ( and oh its coming alright) your place on the post is secure ....if not assured


:???: Talk about.....!

Hmm, also not quite sure what the Neanderthal KKK misogynist is on about . . . but at least he has the option to do so here . . .

. . . unlike in China . . . perhaps he should speak in reference to a country and/or a person he knows something/anything about. :)

Difference in this context between 'assured' and 'secure'?

Damn, was it another case of writing before engaging brain, Bigslimything? :D He does come across as a big, lumbering physical clod and mental midget
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'nuff said Image

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 4:01 pm

Eau2011 wrote:I think western countries are aware of the huge gap between rich and poor, I often read and saw it in the media. But the reasons why the gap is caused have to be pointed out here, that's exactly the corruption. In China it's said "if you got power, you will be rich". Unlike the fair play we mostly see in the western world. In China the rich people are those who have political power, or their relatives, friends etc. But of cause I believe there are some who made it by their hard work.

Even without corruption, a country that size is tough to govern. You know, China has so much talent as we're seeing now - leading various fields in sports, business, arts. Surely there are a few politically talented, honest people too. Already some dissidents are making waves around the world. It's hard to believe that in the whole country there is not one person with the ability to turn things around.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 4:35 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:I think western countries are aware of the huge gap between rich and poor, I often read and saw it in the media. But the reasons why the gap is caused have to be pointed out here, that's exactly the corruption. In China it's said "if you got power, you will be rich". Unlike the fair play we mostly see in the western world. In China the rich people are those who have political power, or their relatives, friends etc. But of cause I believe there are some who made it by their hard work.

Even without corruption, a country that size is tough to govern. You know, China has so much talent as we're seeing now - leading various fields in sports, business, arts. Surely there are a few politically talented, honest people too. Already some dissidents are making waves around the world. It's hard to believe that in the whole country there is not one person with the ability to turn things around.


There is incredible talent in China, you can see that with all the gold medals they take, it is a huge and wonderful Country and we see the changes rapidly advancing towards a more open society. the hunger for growth is there, though the sustainability of building and knocking down, building less than 5 years old, will take its toll and the bubble will burst to keep the construction industry employed.

It does well to listen to its own heart...only last week they reduced the crimes on the list of capital offences. china is heading in the right direction , though technologically speaking it's quite a long way behind and will rely on others to develop high tech.

India for example are also a driven force in the IT sector, also taking the cream of positions in major US IT companies. They have probably one of the best IT universities in the world, so I have read.

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Re: How do you look at china and future of china

Postby tyianchang » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 5:45 pm

Plavt wrote:
tyianchang wrote: perhaps you can pitch it right for a proper discussion. .



Anne, when are you going to have a good look at your own attitude? You accuse other people of not being able to hold a civil discussion yet the minute somebody disagrees with you simply retort by making accusations of bullying! A debate means different people have different points of you which may or not be agreed with by various other people.
From what I and many others have seen you have only one point YOUR OWN! I am not going to go into detail but some are seemingly worried by your presence. Perhaps you would like to explain why you persistently support the policies of a government of a country you claim to have never have lived in?


Pah! China lives in me - you can't stop overseas Chinese talking about China, not even a mainlander, especially if they've left the poor giant to go on labouring to improve the standard of life for all; and having to deal with all that corruption. But they're reforming - the latest I read about is that they'll end the barbaric live sentences for serious thieving.
Try to read intelligently, in between the lines and deconstruct the truth. Plavt, you're a fine specimen on your own.
I admire Mao and the early PLAs for what they'd done for a beleaugered China under the Manchu dynasty. The Chinese , inspite of their sheer numbers, were oppressed by the Manchu minorities - this underpinned their cohesive culture of obedience from the centuries long Confucian teachings. A group of young Chinese had reacted to that in a book about the Yellow Emperor, calling for the Chinese to assert themselves, almost like the AlQaedas jihadist movement. They were not banned or supported by the mainstream in China but talked about. Isn't that some degree of democracy?
Did you see pictures of Chinese beggars left with half a trouser and shirt and about 200,000 buried alive in Nanjing in the old China? How many young Chinese intellectuals were murdered and tortured for their communism? When I was in Beijing, there were thousands queueing to pay repect to Mao ( I mean, the eperience was bizarre, to see his body embalmed in a glass coffin. I'd rather just look at his picture ).
I'm equally concerned that some might want to turn this global platform into a parish pump. It's your choice, Plavt. I gain nothing in sharing my own learning. One thing you can rest assure in - I don't talk opinion but facts; and I had a lot of contacts with China hands, friends and books. I go through phases in my life when I studied something meticulously. Besides, if you read carefully, I'm not a blind supporter of any practice but a fair listener. The imposition of some parochial views and one-sided opinion doesn't work in the long run.
As I'd said, I don't see communism as a challenge to anyone but a way of governing a very huge country full of needs. If you'd stayed in Beijing as I did in 1999, the capital has a serious water shortage as well as an encroaching desert. China needs a strong and effective work force to improve the living conditions for its people which it's doing, ofetn in the face of criticisms.
If democracy works for China, then it will evolve, but if you force it on them, it will repel. The fact is, China is open to the world to engage in businesses in China and does not impose their political preferences on other countries.
In fact, we need to examine the Chinese constitution before condemning unfairly- and I had met some brilliant young Chinese in the 80s who were discussing about democracy and free speech in the making of their constitution.
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Postby Brah » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 5:59 pm

How do you look at china and future of china?

I hold it very carefully because it's usually expensive and easily broken.

Its future depends on its value, some make for nice family heirlooms.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 6:13 pm

Brah wrote:How do you look at china and future of china?

I hold it very carefully because it's usually expensive and easily broken.

Its future depends on its value, some make for nice family heirlooms.


Image
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'nuff said Image

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Re: How do you look at china and future of china

Postby Plavt » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 6:14 pm

tyianchang wrote:Try to read intelligently, in between the lines and deconstruct the truth. Plavt, you're a fine specimen on your own.


Anymore needless insulting and unnecessary comments like this and I will lock your account. Throughout this entire thread you have been persistently provocative for no good reason! You have only gotten away with it since most have just enjoyed teasing you. Since this is your second warning consider yourself lucky since I like other moderators are not willing to ban anybody. Disucss topics by all means but just because you do not agree with someone does not mean you have a god- given right to belittle and insult them. Remember that is what debates are about agreement and disagreement. You have a PM to this effect.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 7:40 pm

What's wrong with being provocative? As far as heat is concerned, she's also taken her fair share of abuse. I'd say it's more like a schoolyard spat. That's why I'm willing to let it continue. Both sides are being provocative so it would only be fair to warn ALL posters that the same could easily befall any of us/them who continue to push at the OB markers. As far as her beliefs are concerned, it's somewhat interesting to have somebody go against mainstream thought, never mind how misguided we think or it actually may be. I do it all the time over the current stooge in the White House. :P

Let us not be so hasty to condemn to oblivion when in most cases she it just trying to give back what she is getting.

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 8:15 pm

It is not uncommon that the punishment for committing a crime against a policeman is far harsher than that for committing a crime against an ordinary citizen. As far as I know only one current poster here has succeeded in gratuitously insulting all of the moderators.

So I'm not convinced that all of the posters that occasionally engage in a little vibrant debate should be lumped together and judged in the same light.

p.s. In other words, from what I have seen on other forums, repeatedly insulting the mods is suicidal.



:)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 8:35 pm

In other forums, as some of our posters have tried to repeatedly tried to point out, Moderators don't engage the boards as regular posters either, as we do here. So therefore, we should be entitled to our fair share of the heat as well. I've been repeated insulted for 6 years here (but not as a moderator - even though new posters had difficulty in separating the two - regulars here don't). But, the way I see it, I engage others on the board as a regular poster, so I should expect to be treated the same. As you all know, I fully identify myself as a moderator when I've put that cap on, as do so as little as necessary if I can get away with it.

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Postby x9200 » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 8:55 pm

Anne put herself in a position where actually her insults are not insulting. This is pretty harsh self inflicted punishment.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 9:02 pm

JR8 wrote:As far as I know only one current poster here has succeeded in gratuitously insulting all of the moderators.


:) Guilty as charged . . . but I do like them all except for the dimwitted duo :cool:

SMS Wrote:
I've been repeated insulted for 6 years here (but not as a moderator - even though new posters had difficulty in separating the two - regulars here don't)
Hey MOD! Your mother wears army boots! :cool:
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Postby JR8 » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 9:30 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:In other forums, as some of our posters have tried to repeatedly tried to point out, Moderators don't engage the boards as regular posters either, as we do here. So therefore, we should be entitled to our fair share of the heat as well. I've been repeated insulted for 6 years here (but not as a moderator - even though new posters had difficulty in separating the two - regulars here don't). But, the way I see it, I engage others on the board as a regular poster, so I should expect to be treated the same. As you all know, I fully identify myself as a moderator when I've put that cap on, as do so as little as necessary if I can get away with it.


In my experience having mods also contribute is not that unusual. But you're right being clear in what capacity a moderator is writing is important. I agree you should expect some heat when you give it in a personal capacity, but if a mod writing as a mod publicly warns you, it is at the least rather unwise to stick it to them right back!

Not wishing to invite 'suicide by cop/mod', I'll leave it there :D :wink:
Last edited by JR8 on Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.


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