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Eau2011
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Postby Eau2011 » Sat, 19 Feb 2011 5:53 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I've known a lot of ABC's, BBC's & CBC's in the almost 3 decades I've been here (I'm married to an Asian as well for 27 of those). Almost without fail, they have basically all said the same thing and all have done just what we say will happen. The fact that your are a banana, being Chinese on the outside is poor preparation for the Western guy on the inside. As James Bond said, 'never say never again'. :wink: But welcome to Singapore anyway. It's interesting to say the least, and boring as hell after 6 months.


Thanks anyway. Well, we will see. :)

We will take the chance to travel the neighbouring countries for not getting bored if we cannot change the fact that the city is boring. 8-)

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Postby beppi » Sat, 19 Feb 2011 5:56 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Actually, Ulu Pandan is becoming waste as well as we type. They stopped using that plant several years ago. I work around the corner from it and they are in the process of making waste of it too. I'm hoping they will demolish the smokestack US style with explosive charges to collapse it on itself. I'd like to be there to see it. It's just the demolition expert in me coming to the fore again. (I used to hold a US Federal Blasters License). :o


As usual, SMS knows it all!
Sorry, it's not my habit to regularly check the incineration plant status, so my information is probably outdated.
Where do they burn the rubbish now? (Ulu Pandan used to be the only one, right?)

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Postby Eau2011 » Sat, 19 Feb 2011 5:57 pm

beppi wrote:Since household waste (mostly after being burnt at the Ulu Pandan Incineration Plant) constitutes a major portion of the material used for land reclamation (it's a "seafill" if you want), recycling comes in the way of Singapore becoming greater and is thus not encouraged.
You won't find this standpoint in official publications, though.
About 10 years ago (I didn't see more updated statistics) Singapore was the country with the highest amount of municipal waste per head worldwide. It also is the country with the highest ratio of reclaimed land (about 20%).


So we are actually contributing to land reclaiming in Singapore everyday? :o

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 19 Feb 2011 7:06 pm

beppi wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Actually, Ulu Pandan is becoming waste as well as we type. They stopped using that plant several years ago. I work around the corner from it and they are in the process of making waste of it too. I'm hoping they will demolish the smokestack US style with explosive charges to collapse it on itself. I'd like to be there to see it. It's just the demolition expert in me coming to the fore again. (I used to hold a US Federal Blasters License). :o


As usual, SMS knows it all!
Sorry, it's not my habit to regularly check the incineration plant status, so my information is probably outdated.
Where do they burn the rubbish now? (Ulu Pandan used to be the only one, right?)


The fifth Incineration plant was a DBOO (design, build, own & operate) plant that was to replace the Ulu Pandan Plant once it was finished and launched. It's the first Public to Private waste incineration plant in Singapore. That was build in Tuas as a waste to energy (WTE) plant and was officially open on 30 June 2010. Hence the shutdown and dismantling of the Ulu Pandan plant. The others are also in Tuas, Tuas South & Senoko.

http://www.kie.com.sg/media/press-relea ... plant.html

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 19 Feb 2011 9:04 pm

[quote="Eau2011"]
What did you do when you were at my age? :P Don't tell me you were already so cynical like now. :wink:

Not knowing your age it is hard to say, but since you are a lady I shall not probe the matter ;) . But I think my cynicism was pretty firmly embedded by the time I was at university. You know witnessing the global-cooling terror, nuclear armageddon terror, HIV terror, and hole in the ozone layer terror - all of which were going to kill us - in the preceding ten odd years, made concluding that politicians control (and tax) citizens by scaring the hell out of them pretty easy.

Never charities, but this is not the excuse for not carrying certain social responisbilities.

Isn't providing jobs/livilihoods, desired products and services, and paying taxes enough? What else should they be doing?

If you say I take price advantage, hm....not the case. :lol: I don't have preferences, but for chocolates or cheese, I still like to buy German, Swiss, Dutch, French products because they taste much better. :wink:

I agree with you re: chocolate and cheese (and beer! :)). But what about things like bathroom products, or medicines?

Of cause I know Singapore is Singapore, is not UK, Germany, China, USA or Moon. There will be things I don't agree on, e.g. 5Cs etc. And I also would NOT "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!", but I have to accept as it is. I'm always quite flexible. :lol:

That is because you go to yoga :lol: So when (if) you ever get to use the MRT and people trample you to near death in their rush for a seat are you going to 'just accept it' as that is 'how it works in SG'?

And at the end, thank you very much for the interesting discussion, dear Mr. Alleswisser. Have a nice day! :)

Hehe... 'Mr. Oracle' has one more thing for you. You were asking about Obama's global warming advisor (and ex global cooling terror merchant), John Holdren, well the below article will outline what I was describing earlier on...
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=873

Enjoy!

p.s. I see you are Chinese! a-ha, and I thought you were a Teuton! I seem to have a certain effect on Chinese ladies :lol:

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 20 Feb 2011 2:26 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
beppi wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Actually, Ulu Pandan is becoming waste as well as we type. They stopped using that plant several years ago. I work around the corner from it and they are in the process of making waste of it too. I'm hoping they will demolish the smokestack US style with explosive charges to collapse it on itself. I'd like to be there to see it. It's just the demolition expert in me coming to the fore again. (I used to hold a US Federal Blasters License). :o


As usual, SMS knows it all!
Sorry, it's not my habit to regularly check the incineration plant status, so my information is probably outdated.
Where do they burn the rubbish now? (Ulu Pandan used to be the only one, right?)


The fifth Incineration plant was a DBOO (design, build, own & operate) plant that was to replace the Ulu Pandan Plant once it was finished and launched. It's the first Public to Private waste incineration plant in Singapore. That was build in Tuas as a waste to energy (WTE) plant and was officially open on 30 June 2010. Hence the shutdown and dismantling of the Ulu Pandan plant. The others are also in Tuas, Tuas South & Senoko.

http://www.kie.com.sg/media/press-relea ... plant.html


a waste to energy plant? sounds good.

@JR8, one more kind of renewable energy. :P I can use an e-car now. :mrgreen:

It would be interesting to do an eco-trip in Pulau Semakau.

happigal wrote:But Singapore does do it's small part. Do some research about Pulau Semakau. It's actually a landfill area, but done in a special way. All incinerated items are sealed in these special containers which are used to increase the land mass of the island. And special care has been taken to ensure that intertidal marine life, mangrove swamps, etc... are not upset in anyway. It has been there for sometime and so far it has been thriving.

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Postby Eau2011 » Sun, 20 Feb 2011 3:10 pm

JR8 wrote:
Eau2011 wrote:
Not knowing your age it is hard to say, but since you are a lady I shall not probe the matter ;) . But I think my cynicism was pretty firmly embedded by the time I was at university. You know witnessing the global-cooling terror, nuclear armageddon terror, HIV terror, and hole in the ozone layer terror - all of which were going to kill us - in the preceding ten odd years, made concluding that politicians control (and tax) citizens by scaring the hell out of them pretty easy.

Just name a few what we all are witnessing NOW: terrorism and tightened control in the airports. (years ago saw the ad in London Tube for being alert for bags left on the train, now also saw the silimar ad in MRT in Singapore.), endless discussion about Afghanistan, financial crisis...

I can understand you...
:console:

Isn't providing jobs/livilihoods, desired products and services, and paying taxes enough? What else should they be doing?

Ethic.

That is because you go to yoga :lol: So when (if) you ever get to use the MRT and people trample you to near death in their rush for a seat are you going to 'just accept it' as that is 'how it works in SG'?
I take MRT from time to time, never expierenced what you said, :shock: even during rush hour. I actually saw they are quite polite for giving seats to others. But I have problems with their manners on the streets when I drive...but what's the fuss about it, if one has lived in China... :wink:

Hehe... 'Mr. Oracle' has one more thing for you. You were asking about Obama's global warming advisor (and ex global cooling terror merchant), John Holdren, well the below article will outline what I was describing earlier on...
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=873

Enjoy!


Thanks, I will have to read more about it and redefine my position probably....
Same with Iraq war, first time I watched the collateral murder, I could not believe my eyes when seeing those soldiers shooting the innocent people. I also watched that film "fair game" by Naomi Watts and Sean Penn.

Ironically USA is not sued for war crime at ICC, not like Germany and Japan at IMT?




JR8 wrote: p.s. I see you are Chinese! a-ha, and I thought you were a Teuton! I seem to have a certain effect on Chinese ladies :lol:


I wrote already in the first page.
BTW, Everyone will be pleased to discuss with you if you enthusiastically take part in it. :lol:
Last edited by Eau2011 on Sun, 20 Feb 2011 5:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 20 Feb 2011 4:22 pm

JR8, methinks you've been hoist by that petard thingy again! :lol:

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 20 Feb 2011 6:20 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:JR8, methinks you've been hoist by that petard thingy again! :lol:


Lol... will I ever learn? :roll: :lol:

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:05 pm

Eau
Just name a few what we all are witnessing NOW: terrorism and tightened control in the airports. (years ago saw the ad in London Tube for being alert for bags left on the train, now also saw the silimar ad in MRT in Singapore.), endless discussion about Afghanistan, financial crisis...

JR8
Well, there are always going to be crises and wars. The difference is that things like I mentioned require a ‘leap of faith’ on the part of citizens to accept. Whereas I don’t think you will find that many people who support the ongoing war in Afghanistan. But say global warming, in exactly the same way as global cooling back in it’s day, is taught in schools. At both of their times, people wanted to believe in them. You were considered nuts if not a pariah if you did not believe in them. That is not science it is politics.

JR8 - (requote of previous question so follow-on has context)
Isn't providing jobs/livilihoods, desired products and services, and paying taxes enough? What else should they be doing?
Eau
Ethic.

JR8
And who defines what the ethics are?

Eau
I take MRT from time to time, never expierenced what you said, :shock: even during rush hour. I actually saw they are quite polite for giving seats to others. But I have problems with their manners on the streets when I drive...but what's the fuss about it, if one has lived in China... :wink:

JR8
Ah so you are saying that SG is not bad compared to China? But SG considers itself a 1st world country ‘the Switzerland of Asia’, so I think it appropriate to compare it versus other 1st world countries.
It is interesting your experiences on the MRT, even if they are a little surreal compared to just about everyone else here!

Eau
Thanks, I will have to read more about it and redefine my position probably....
Same with Iraq war, first time I watched the collateral murder, I could not believe my eyes when seeing those soldiers shooting the innocent people. I also watched that film "fair game" by Naomi Watts and Sean Penn.
Ironically USA is not sued for war crime at ICC, not like Germany and Japan at IMT?


JR8
You could also read the original Newsweek article that I linked re global-cooling. When I did I was amazed to see the same language used that is used today re: global warming, ‘The science is settled’, ‘There is consensus amongst scientists’, ‘It is beyond doubt’ and so on. Again that is politics and not science.

Another place to have a browse if you have any level of scepticism and some time is http://wattsupwiththat.com/ Some of the daily blog pieces are pretty heavily scientific but others are quite accessible. The tab of links re: ‘Climategate’ probably reveals as such as is possible about the scale of the fraud that global-warming is.

I do not think you can compare Collateral Murder with German and Japanese genocide. In ‘CM’ that kind of unfortunate event always occurs in wars. You can say now that the Americans were ‘shooting innocent civilians’, because it has been established retrospectively that some of them were. But the pilots genuinely believed them to be armed combatants. From the same (unedited) tape from the Apache you will see a scene where the helicopter has authority to fire on a crowd of armed insurgents, prepares to, but then holds fire because they notice a child and a non-combatant on the fringe of the group.

I would ask this question. If the US army are progressing through a suburb clearing out pockets of insurgents who have been attacking them all day. Do you think that it would be a good idea for a pair of journalists to go and join together with a group of armed (AKs and RPGs) enemy, carrying no form of visual ‘PRESS’ id, and then with the Americans 100m away and under fire, to start peering around corners shouldering a camera with a large telephoto lens taking photos of them? Wise!? And then when all but one of the group have been shot dead (I would have thought it apparent it came from a helicopter above), was it wise for someone in a van (with two children inside) to immediately drive into this scenario and try and rescue the one remaining injured man? I’m sorry to say the expression that comes to my mind is ‘Asking for it’ :(

Eau
I wrote already in the first page.
BTW, Everyone will be pleased to discuss with you if you enthusiastically take part in it. :lol:


JR8
Ah but your opening line was that you had just arrived from Germany so that set the scene. This was compounded by the fact that I seem to have completely missed your post to me in which you mentioned that you are Chinese!

Eau
@JR8, one more kind of renewable energy. I can use an e-car now.


JR8
Sorry to pop your balloon but power from an incinerator is not ‘renewable’. The definition of renewable seems to be energy that is ‘naturally replenished’ (tidal, wind, solar power etc).
Last edited by JR8 on Mon, 21 Feb 2011 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 21 Feb 2011 12:01 am

heads up, folks...your posts are just bloody difficult to read now.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 21 Feb 2011 12:33 am

nakatago wrote:heads up, folks...your posts are just bloody difficult to read now.


Yah I'm confused as hell too, but you mean other people are reading it? hehehe :) Seriously though thanks Nak I'll go and edit it to make it clearer...

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 21 Feb 2011 5:31 am

How timely. Not using regular plastic supermarket bags is detrimental to the environment... (I can't help but lol). This will of course be met by the suckered sheeple with a rousing 'Baaaaa-nay, that is not possible'!

-------------------------------------------
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... green.html

Why you need to use your ‘environmentally friendly’ cotton carrier bag 171 times to be green


Carrier bag holders: More energy goes into making a cloth bag than a polythene one

Cotton bags offered by many supermarkets may be less 'green' than plastic carriers - and may cause more global warming, according to scientists.

As a greater amount of energy goes into making a cloth carrier than a polythene one, a cotton bag has to be used 171 times before it has the same environmental impact than its plastic counterpart

And if a plastic bag is re-used as a bin liner, a cotton bag has to be used 327 times - nearly every day of the year - before its ecological impact is as low as a plastic bag on a host of factors including greenhouse gas emissions over its lifetime.

But most of us only use the bags around 51 times before they are thrown away, researchers found.

Paper bags - used by some clothes chains such as Primark - need to be used three times to fall below the environmental impact of the thin plastic carrier, while bags for life - made of stronger plastic - have to be used four times to start having less ecological impact.

The government sponsored research, 'Life Cycle Assessment of Supermarket Carrier Bags' by Dr Chris Edwards and Jonna Meyhoff Fry looked at the environmental impact of six different types of bags.

Although completed in 2008, it has not yet been published, with plastic bag makers claiming the findings have been suppressed - although the Environment Agency said it is awaiting 'peer review' - checks by other scientists.


Using a thin plastic bag equates to generating 1.57kg of carbon dioxide. A cotton bag would have to be re-used 171 times to emit the same level of CO2

Using a thin plastic bag - made from a plastic called high-density polyethylene (HDPE) - equates to generating 1.57kg of carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas that scientist believe leads to global warming according to the report. A cotton bag would have to be re-used 171 times to emit the same level of CO2.

Cotton bags typically made in China have a greater environmental impact because of the water and fertiliser required in their production, as well as their transportation and greater weight.

The researchers concluded: 'The HDPE bag had the lowest environmental impacts of the single use options in nine of the 10 impact categories. The bag performed well because it was the lightest single use bag considered.'

Plastic bags have also come under fire for using up oil and for littering the countryside and fouling the marine environment for wildlife.


A study into the impact of different bags was finished in 2008 but has not yet been published

However, the research found that biodegradable bags made of starch were not a greener option than HDPE bags as they are less environmentally friendly to make and heavier.

The authors write: 'In practical terms of global warming potential, eutrophication [a form of river pollution] ozone layer depletion, toxicity and ecotoxicity the current starch polyester blend bag is significantly worse than conventional single-use options due to the high impact of raw material production on those categories.'

The Daily Mail, through its 'Banish the Bags' campaign has spearheaded efforts to avoid using plastic bags wherever possible to save the environment and the public are reducing their use of plastic bags.

Figures from WRAP, the government's Waste and Resources Action Program, show a total decline in all types of carrier bags issued to 4.5 billion (41%) over the years 2006-2010 – effectively saving 39,700 tonnes of material from entering the waste stream

Peter Woodall, speaking on behalf of the Packaging and Films Association, which represents plastic bag makers, said: 'This analysis shows what we have been saying for years. Plastic bags are a more environmentally friendly option than cotton bags.

'It comes down to reducing, reusing and recycling.' He also cited Canadian research that cotton bags can harbour can harbour germs and mould which can be harmful to health - unless they are washed.

An Environment Agency spokesperson said: 'The Environment Agency was asked by Government in 2005 to investigate the impact of carrier bags. This was during a period of significant media, public and legislative pressure to reduce the environmental and social impact of food packaging.'

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Postby Sad Panda » Mon, 21 Feb 2011 5:45 am

I'd be willing to bet a good number of consumers visit shopping centers at least a 171 times in a year. Anecdotal evidence of this holds true when i was working retail. You would see a good number of the same people in the store 3-4 times a week. I would image they shop elsewhere as well but it wouldn't take long to hit 171 trips.

In the end, for myself, I'd rather not continue to contribute to the Garbage Island and i feel reusable bags are a step in that direction.
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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Mon, 21 Feb 2011 5:57 am

nakatago wrote:heads up, folks...your posts are just bloody difficult to read now.


Amen! In fact... I don't!

Too much color. :???:

You can't tell which poster is saying what. Why not just use the quotation option?


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