What exactly is going on in Egypt and what repercussions ?

[tyianchang]

[quote="ksl
I'd say that Britain and the USA are really concerned who is going to take over Libya and the oil, the UN is useless[/quote]

I think P Obama is right to reserve comments at this time and let the Libyans decide their own future. Britain has many allies in the ME and the oil tycoons have already offered extra deliveries of oil.
The Times paper is having mixed reports. One article glorifies, " The Arab spring makes us proud again."( by Emma Duncan) But it glosses over the surface of the seriousness of decades in which these countries are involved in a power struggle.
OTOH Ed Husain is less optimistic as he cites the historical relations between the clerics e.g.Al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda and the protesters demand for freedom and democracy ( as pointed out by Astro Gal ). Ed saw the protests as a rallying front for all the diverse groups in Egypt. It remains to be seen if a secular constitution can be implemented. He does cite some serious issues which I will not be drawn into - as I'd rather hope the Egyptians can resort to peaceful solutions rather than give way to violence and war.
The offshot is, Ed Husain expresses unease about possible attacks on polling booths, government offices and police officers.
- from Ed Husain's Opinion page, The Times Saturday.
Ineffectual as the UN peace keeping force is deemed by many because it is a peaceful and impartial force, I reckon that's the only hope for the avoidance of war. If the world has a united front in the UN, why not make it more effective as a channel for settling differences for all?

[ksl]

Ineffectual as the UN peace keeping force is deemed by many because it is a peaceful and impartial force, I reckon that's the only hope for the avoidance of war

That will never happen, as long as there is a risk of the oil getting in the wrong hands.

[tyianchang]

Ineffectual as the UN peace keeping force is deemed by many because it is a peaceful and impartial force, I reckon that's the only hope for the avoidance of war

That will never happen, as long as there is a risk of the oil getting in the wrong hands.

Well, the UN is already helping out with humanitarian aid for the influx of refugees at the Tunisian border. They include migrant workers from other coutries like India as well as Egyptians and Libyans.
What you said about the oil might be right. The latest news is that Cameron and Hilary have both announced they won't rule out military intervention though the protesters in Libya didn't want outsiders to spoil their revolution. I can't believe this! Events are moving way too fast, come to think of it, shouldn't there be a referendum?
This year is starting to look like a horrid beginning.

[ksl]

Ineffectual as the UN peace keeping force is deemed by many because it is a peaceful and impartial force, I reckon that's the only hope for the avoidance of war

That will never happen, as long as there is a risk of the oil getting in the wrong hands.

[tyianchang]

You're a veteran with an honest voice, ksl. Don't we all hope the world will be a better place for all.
The consequence of the wide spread protests is that they leave a power vacuum for warring factions to exploit the situation. The huge numbers of refugees in Tunisia is a sign that much more is left to be done after the victories in Egypt and Tunisia. Many people, including foreigners from around the world, are losing their jobs and income too.
Let's hope Egypt adminsiter the current interrim capably and Libya will stop fighting to open negotiations; ven with the US and Uk thrown in, if must. Sometimes, a third party is needed when horns are locked.

[JR8]

Looks like KSL is chips-in with granma this week

hehehe

[ksl]

Looks like KSL is chips-in with granma this week

hehehe

Looks like KSL is chips-in with granma this week

I'm on the UN side this week have to watch the blood pressure these days just like the UN leaders Besides i always get banned for losing the plot with these communist MOD's and CASE doesn't help one bit!

[tyianchang]

[quote="ksl hehehe [/quote] Hee hee, producing the facts are quite easy in this case, as they have been mentioned in the local press, apart from any communist intrusion from Russia, however they will have their finger in the pie too no doubt.

All the communists have problems too from Chechnya to Urumqi with terrorist activities just follow the silk road to Xinjiang. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi

Back in the early 90's I met a couple of Russian KGB students, studying Chinese, they used to tell me about how the trade was doing big business in China, it was obvious when we couldn't bargain for prices down in the silk market in Beijing, they preferred dealing with Russians as they just paid the price asked for 1k pieces of silk.

Every day the Russians would arrive by train and return, with Chinese goods, I posted several hundred weight of products back to Denmark. Drinking vodka around a 45 gallon drum fire to keep warm in winter was an experience listening to the Chinese that had learnt English from the BBC world service parrot fashion, they could rhyme off, each and every BBC transmission perfectly, though didn't understand any of it.

Fortunately, I don't take sides with politics, to survive anywhere we have to adapt to situations and keep an open mind. Though I do have an interest in current world affairs, as it effects my investment portfolio

Looks like KSL is chips-in with granma this week

I'm on the UN side this week have to watch the blood pressure these days just like the UN leaders Besides i always get banned for losing the plot with these communist MOD's and CASE doesn't help one bit![/quote]

I like these anecdotes ksl. Keep them coming.
Libya's undergoing civil war. It's just what nobody wanted except for those in the coup perhaps. BTW, I do't regurgitate media news. They help me think for peaceful solutions, if if the main parties are too busy fighting.
It's good to see the media being less and less biased. They'll know where the sting is if they speak to soon.
The UN Security Council is taking on the case and acting tough but any action taken must be agreed by the council members and I hope they'll leave the Libyans to sort out their own future. It seems Cameron has made a most unusual statement about military intervention.
My hunch is China will not interfere; and countries like Russia , France and perhaps the US will agree not to interfere. The sooner the war's ended, the better. Then talks can begin.

[ksl]

USA:but many of the al-Qaida activists in Afghanistan and later in Iraq came from Libya and came from eastern Libya, which is now the so-called free area."

Was Gaddafi, talking madness, when he accused Al Qaida of causing all the trouble and attempting to take Libya?

I thought the West had called Al-Qaida terrorist groups, so is it right or wrong that Gaddafi should protect his country?

Who is really behind the unrest?

Holy warriors have lot's of groups that are active, besides Al Qaida!
Are they joining forces to take Libya?

USA, UK are stretched both economically and army strength, as they cope with mass cost cutting. Looks like the politicians will go down in history for the biggest fiasco of the century.

My advice to Obama is send Jack Bower in! Cameron can send Mr Bean! If all fails at least they will have the movie rights for a propaganda campaign!

[ev-disinfection]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Called up some of my contacts, and they found me this other photo of the same guy, carrying the "walk like an Egyptian" poster....... and the winner for guessing where that guy is.............

These are Egyptian - Canadians and Egyptian immigrants that were there.

[ev-disinfection]

Oh and before more chaos ensues here in the thread, let me introduce my contacts....

http://www.torontoobserver.ca/2011/01/3 ... -protest...

[ksl]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Called up some of my contacts, and they found me this other photo of the same guy, carrying the "walk like an Egyptian" poster....... and the winner for guessing where that guy is.............

These are Egyptian - Canadians and Egyptian immigrants that were there.

[tyianchang]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Called up some of my contacts, and they found me this other photo of the same guy, carrying the "walk like an Egyptian" poster....... and the winner for guessing where that guy is.............

These are Egyptian - Canadians and Egyptian immigrants that were there.

It's typical to rally in other countries, though they all have it too free and easy to return to their Countries, all sheep need leaders and only the ones with a chance of improving their positions will return. My belief is a more sinister group involved in attacks of christian Egyptians and will wield their power in the struggle eventually, most radicals will leave to tackle Libya, as the oil is a major prize for the taking.

Well done Ev-D for finding the source. I thought that was the case.
As a matter of fact, there were similar demos in the UK, with the protesters rallying round Hyde Park to attract all passers up with their liberation flag, and looking not peaceful in any way but agggressive and challenging, esp when most people passed by ignoring them. They'd have to do better to convince me.

The ME situation was summed up earlier on in this thread which most of us agree with. What doesn't come up so clean about the protests against Ghadafi were these observations I made from the media coverage so far:
1. the protesters looked well-fed and they all spoke good English
2. they were armed and prepared to wage a war to 'take over'
3. YET they seem leaderless.

The way the UK media tip the balance on the protesters shut out the rights of the proGhadafis to be heard equally. They should be fair in their presentation; the problem is too complex for us to really draw the line between good and evil.
If the oil wells is the golden goose they're all fighting for, including the UK and some senators in the US, it's all hardly about democracy but targets.
I feel guilty watching the news about people embroiled in a civil war.
There's an article in the Financial Times calling for Europeans to wedge in now and influence democracy on Libyans while eyeing for the riches to be gleaned from Libya. What about the UN Security Council - they should have a panel of representation from the Arab countires, rather than being led by the US and the UK.
Whatever the world does, it should only be to pave the way for peace talks and democratic resolutions to be made for
- a court hearing from both sides
- an election for the next leader
- an amended constitution that guarantees equality for all.
In this time of oil shortages, no one should see it as their right to join the piracy for oil in a troubled Libya. Peace is the only convincing start.
This train of thoughts was inspired by a Japanese Haiku poet from the 18 century, at a time when feudal Japan was similarly engaged in Samurai wars and fiefdoms before the advancedment of post-technology industrialization.
The Ruins of Takadachi Fort
Over the warriors, summer grasses wave:
the aftermath of dreams, however brave.
- Basho.

[ksl]

In all fairness Gaddafi shouldn't be held responsible for protecting his own Country, if this was to happen in any Country like US or even UK, it would start with water hoses, then batons, the rubber guns, until it escalates into shooting people.

What is happening is a deliberate attempt to undermine Gaddafi's rule, from more sides than just one!

[JR8]

In all fairness Gaddafi shouldn't be held responsible for protecting his own Country, if this was to happen in any Country like US or even UK, it would start with water hoses, then batons, the rubber guns, until it escalates into shooting people.

What is happening is a deliberate attempt to undermine Gaddafi's rule, from more sides than just one! Has I said before seeds are planted long long ago, for these specific happenings in all of the ME Countries. Though Libya is a star prize, for the winners.

Gaddafi as just been ruled out, and condemned for shooting his own people, when mercenaries are in from many Countries, and they will be shooting at Libyans so that Gaddafi is blamed. I'm not taking sides, at all, as i am not political motivated, though i am looking at the picture from the larger military perspective.

It's called military tactics and part of a planned strategy to topple him, with all Countries good & bad involved how intense and who from western side jumps in will all depend on which tribes are taking the power.

Forget democracy, equality and fairness, as many people seem to think, that's what it's about that's just a smoke screen which is easy to manipulate by the hardcore grps good and bad.

Counter insurgency methods are very often used, to topple governments, maybe it will all come out with wikileaks, eventually

You think is part of a long-planned strategy? Then why do you think the 'opposition' are not better organised?

As I see it started in Tunisia with a man being refused a permit to continue his basic livelihood of having a vegetable stall (he only did it as he could get no other employment). He self-immolated in protest, that started street protests which coincided with Wikileaks releasing a diplomatic cable describing the President's family's extraordinary wealth and mafia like grip on the economy.

Boom!

I also firmly believe that these days what with SMS (no not him! ) mobile phones, e-mail and networking sites, that protesters are much better empowered to organise/mobilise than they ever have been before. The majority of ME countries have been ruled by brutal billionaire dictators since their independence, with the majority of citizens lucky to get even a few crumbs off the table. They are oppressed into submission (it's an old strategy, look at Zimbabwe, people who are intentionally half-starved are incapable of putting up a fight). Once the Egyptians saw what the Tunisians had achieved they believed that they could emulate it, and so on...

What is being played out in Libya appears unusually dirty, and I doubt we will ever know the whole truth of it. I read this morning that British 'military advisors' and MI6 are preparing to go to Benghazi to offer advice to the opposition. God help us that this does not turn into another war in the ME that the UK gets involved in...