Singapore Expats Forum

Renounce SC OR interrupt studies to return and do NS….

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Koalabear
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Postby Koalabear » Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:35 am

twotribez wrote:I am late to reply this but I was in exactly the same position as you now face in 2001.

I had 1 year left but mindef reject my extension. Till now I regret my decision. I should not have renounced and gone back to serve. As I was born in Singapore and having gone there every year without fail since I was 8 years old. I was very attached to Singapore. Even had Singapore girlfriend. We broke off when I came back to Australia for Uni.

Now, I find myself wanting to go back but have been rejected for employment passes. I even enquired if I could serve and their answer is that if you are no more Singaporean, you cannot serve.

My younger brother ended up going back to serve. He kept his SG citizenship and australian citizenship until he finished serving. Even after 3 to 4 years after serving he refused to renounce his Australia. Immigration was pressuring him to pick one. In the end he chose Australian passport as I heard it was hard to get back. He then applied for employment pass and he had no problems getting it. This is also the same for my father, he renounced but because both had serve NS, they will grant you employment pass.

I am the only one who can't go back to work and it is sad as I love Singapore and that single immature decision I made 10 years ago has cost me dearly.

However what I don't understand is why a person who left so young that did not enjoy any benefits from the country is not allowed to return simply because they did not server NS. I heard it costs about 400k to train an SG soldier. Isn't this a waste of money when they renounce? You can't even use them for reservist anymore. People like myself, I save them the 400k yet we are treated like outsiders and cannot come back too work.

Honestly at 21, a lot of us guys are not mature enough to make that decision just yet. Think about 21 during your Uni days? Mostly involves fun and socialising.

All I can see is that it must be just the principle they are holding onto. I really hope it changes one day so I can return and help the population to grow....

Wonder if I do marry a singaporean, can I go back to work? Many questions....

However I would say, serve your NS. Singapore will always be home. Grass is always greener but for myself, it was always home and I should have served.

hope this helps.


$400k to train s soldier??? LOL where did you get that number from??

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Postby twotribez » Tue, 19 Apr 2011 9:29 pm

I heard from an uncle who was a colonel but may have been wrong. Makes sense that it costs that much though. Maybe even more. Factor in all the cost of training, equipment etc.

Not blaming the govt, just trying to understand why they would not grant a 1 year extension. I don't believe it was a lot to ask. They could have said yes and asked for a bond. They don't give much reason, thats all. Internet was not so pervasive last time so it wasn't as easy to find answers, I really had no idea I would not be able to come back and work. I don't blame my parents either. Mistake made was mine and mine alone.

I am still proud I was born there and proud of what the Singaporean govt has achieved. Mr Lee sure was a great leader. No one in the world has achieved what he has.

But yes people at 21 are still not mature. Parents did not do anything wrong, its society. As times have passed, more emphasis is placed on education. Thats all parents want for their children these days. That is why they are more babied in todays society. The whole world is changing... even generation after me are pampered even more. Even being in the work force now for so long, its still so expensive to buy a house... Previous generations had it tough but times today are also tough. Just different. Every generation has its own problems to deal with and its because of how society has evolved.

Its the internet age, kids don't hang out and go out like I used too. They are all glued to the internet. They are missing out on a lot. I am sure I missed out on alot on what my parents did as well.

I am 33 by the way. So have you decided whether to serve or not? Because if you love Singapore, especially you have realised that at a crucial time. I suggest taking this opportunity to serve. Only 2.5 years. But you horizons and opportunities will be better. Another thing, you are Chinese, in Australia we will always be second class citizens. Plus you will have a law degree.

What the govt has done is stick to their principles, if you fulfill your duty you will be allowed back to work even if you renounce. This is a stable govt, they make no concessions which is good as well. As they say things are done by the book.

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Postby JCL99 » Tue, 19 Apr 2011 10:21 pm

Leaning towards it but still really unsure!

What seems strange is that if i go back to serve, i will be doing so as an Australian, as after 21 i have to renounce my singapore citizenship - which means 1 quarter of the way through my NS - strange no?

Can someone enlighten me?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 20 Apr 2011 4:50 am

JCL99 wrote:Leaning towards it but still really unsure!

What seems strange is that if i go back to serve, i will be doing so as an Australian, as after 21 i have to renounce my singapore citizenship - which means 1 quarter of the way through my NS - strange no?

Can someone enlighten me?


You will receive a letter at the age of 21 to decide which way you wanna go.
If you enter the NS before 21, the letter will still be send out to you at 21. You will have to reply the same. You are still a Sger while you are in NS once completed, you renounce SG citizenship immediately. Do not worry if you decide this route , they will chase after you immediately once you completed NS.
There is nothing strange as you are still a Sger while you are in NS
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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 20 Apr 2011 5:03 am

twotribez wrote:
Not blaming the govt, just trying to understand why they would not grant a 1 year extension. I don't believe it was a lot to ask. They could have said yes and asked for a bond. They don't give much reason, thats all. Internet was not so pervasive last time so it wasn't as easy to find answers, I really had no idea I would not be able to come back and work. I don't blame my parents either. Mistake made was mine and mine alone.

You sound like a broken record to me. There is nothing you can do

I am still proud I was born there and proud of what the Singaporean govt has achieved. Mr Lee sure was a great leader. No one in the world has achieved what he has.

Let' not go into politics if you have not live here half of your life. Window dressing is the breakfast of every politician

But yes people at 21 are still not mature. Parents did not do anything wrong, its society. As times have passed, more emphasis is placed on education. Thats all parents want for their children these days. That is why they are more babied in todays society. The whole world is changing... even generation after me are pampered even more. Even being in the work force now for so long, its still so expensive to buy a house... Previous generations had it tough but times today are also tough. Just different. Every generation has its own problems to deal with and its because of how society has evolved.

Its the internet age, kids don't hang out and go out like I used too. They are all glued to the internet. They are missing out on a lot. I am sure I missed out on alot on what my parents did as well.

I am 33 by the way. So have you decided whether to serve or not? Because if you love Singapore, especially you have realised that at a crucial time. I suggest taking this opportunity to serve. Only 2.5 years. But you horizons and opportunities will be better. Another thing, you are Chinese, in Australia we will always be second class citizens. Plus you will have a law degree.

I am Indonesian Chinese and an Ozzie too unless you are living in the suburb of Melbourne, I do not think so. It is who you mixed with

What the govt has done is stick to their principles, if you fulfill your duty you will be allowed back to work even if you renounce. This is a stable govt, they make no concessions which is good as well. As they say things are done by the book.

Your point is ??



Look, I am over the fifty now and have kids just about your age too. I know how you feel. What I did is have an informed discussion with my kids on the pros and cons. From then on, once we took that option, my kids knew there will be no turning back, hence no regrets. Your thoughts are nothing new. There are others that are in worse predicament than you. You make a clean break with SG. Some cannot even do that just because making a small mistake by stepping onto the minefield after a long run. Be grateful and move on, mate.
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Postby Koalabear » Wed, 20 Apr 2011 9:46 am

$400k to train an avg solidier is total BS flat out. Been there, done that, calculated that and if its really $400k to train a soldier, I think Military expense alone exceeds GDP.

All the physical infrastructure are long in place. The only extra costs I can think of per head is +3 more meals per day, +100 5.56mm rounds per year, + $6000 allowance per year.....

There is a very simple reason why MINDEF scheme day and night with policies to trap people in NS. It is very GOOD BUSINESS for Singapore INC. Try finding a 18 yr old chap on the open labor market willing to those shit for $6000/year lol.
Last edited by Koalabear on Wed, 20 Apr 2011 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby twotribez » Wed, 20 Apr 2011 9:50 am

Sounding like a broken record maybe. But doesn't life make it worth living when there's hope? Things change. I am doing well in Melbourne so its not like I put my life on hold. Just that glimmer of hope may keep it interesting.

Maybe its not realistic but hey, did anyone think that going to the moon could be possible?

All I am doing is advising him based on my life experiences thats all.

As for equality here. Its not as bad as countries like Indonesia but it does exist. I am merely stating the fact that if he worked in Singapore, he will be seen as an equal more so than here. I see it in the corporate world here and also notice that SG friends who studied here are able to get better jobs when they are in Singapore, even though their results are not that crash hot. Could be because SG is a multinational HUB so more opportunities.

Again just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck with the choice you make.

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Stop Calculating

Postby Koalabear » Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:09 am

I can't stand those 2nd citizen argument. There is discrimination EVERYWHERE like it or not. You see it everyday in rental listings of Singapore.

Immigrants have to work twice as hard as locals to earn the same recognition. Its a fact of life. At a billion $ market cap food company Im working at right now, 70% of the staff entered through network *cough* nepotism and the 30% like me has to get in through hoops like tests and interviews and case studies crap to get in. I could have easily found a job in Singapore but I stayed and roughed it out and never regretted. If you can provide value to a place, they will recognize your merit, just not at equal degree compared to locals.

However, the real benefit of NS for me is the new perspective I've gotten after interacting with different strata of society. To this day I still dream of the cock stuff with buddies in the army and will not hesitate to do it a few weeks more during holidays.

Forget about calculating tangible benefits and costs now because the benefits of serving Singapore INC cannot be priced in dollars and cents. If you are spending so much time calculating these shit now I have to say forget about serving Singapore INC because it will not be your best interest to serve without heart.

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Postby JCL99 » Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:16 am

Do you think person X (my situation) who returns just before turning 21, in order to complete NS, without any obligation to do so, and with the sole intention of always renouncing SG citizenship once NS duties are discharged will be treated the same as person Y who is in a similar situation, albeit they complete their NS at 18, but their intention to renounce their SC is only manifested later on at age 21?

Am i unclear, do u understand what im getting at?

My worry is that doing NS with the intention of always renouncing SC - so as to be looked favourably upon once i renounce allowing me to obtain an employment pass/working visa, will somehow make the sg govt want to make an example of me...

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 21 Apr 2011 4:27 am

JCL99 wrote:Do you think person X (my situation) who returns just before turning 21, in order to complete NS, without any obligation to do so, and with the sole intention of always renouncing SG citizenship once NS duties are discharged will be treated the same as person Y who is in a similar situation, albeit they complete their NS at 18, but their intention to renounce their SC is only manifested later on at age 21?

You are very confused my young padawan. NS child will begin their NS stint at 18 NOT complete it by 18. Only regulars will start at 15 when you join RINCO or SAFEC. I think RINCO is no longer there. It will take One Year 9 months approx to complete for fit men.
If you wish to serve the NS before 21 and renounce later when you turn 21/22, you can do so now. No one serves before 18.

Am i unclear, do u understand what im getting at?

My worry is that doing NS with the intention of always renouncing SC - so as to be looked favourably upon once i renounce allowing me to obtain an employment pass/working visa, will somehow make the sg govt want to make an example of me...

Yes, that is true, as you have been seen as contributing to the National Security of SG, for that SG Gahmen bow down at you. There is nothing the Gahmen wants to do that will hurt you nor makig an example of you if you just follow the protocol. You are certainly no BIG SHOT NOR WHITE HORSE candidate that the Gahmen will make an example of the child if the parent screws up. Why I said this is because you will definitely not come to this forum seeking for answers if you are in that category. The parents of this category has been FOREWARNED AND FOREARMED of the repercussion for making all the wrong moves.......
You watch too much horror movies and reading between the lines which is unneccessary and a waste of brain juice
So...... like I said before, serve before 21 then renounce SG citizenship = employment in SG later in life

Do not serve and renounce at 21 = NO Employment but Social Visit

This is as crystal clear as it gets.



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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 21 Apr 2011 4:35 am

twotribez wrote:Sounding like a broken record maybe. But doesn't life make it worth living when there's hope? Things change. I am doing well in Melbourne so its not like I put my life on hold. Just that glimmer of hope may keep it interesting.

Maybe its not realistic but hey, did anyone think that going to the moon could be possible?

All I am doing is advising him based on my life experiences thats all.

As for equality here. Its not as bad as countries like Indonesia but it does exist.


First of all, I served the SAF in the 70s, although I am Indonesian Chinese but I did the NS stint and became a regular after that. You do not know what you are talking about.
The Constitution is already set in stone therefore nothing will change on this matter. Law can be revise but not the Constitution.
Your comparison is totally out.
Have you ever live in Indonesia at all, I mean literally live there not the tour thing ? Or you just believe everything that came out from the news ? If you have not, I think is best to reserve your comment to yourself.
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Postby ev-disinfection » Thu, 21 Apr 2011 6:04 pm

Capek Deh... ](*,)

Selamat Sore Pak MS,
I think that twotribez regretted but have moved on.
And i am sure that he would be a good SGer, if he is a SGer now.

@JCL99 -- MS is the wisest, when it comes to these matters, you will have to decide on what you want to do. And yes, SGers who have lived abroad are more attractive to the local gals. :D

I would advise for you to renounce your Au, and do the 2 - 2.5 years in SG then renounce SG, go back and get your Au, study and then come back to work here in SG.

But the ball is in your court.


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