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Filial Piety Revisited

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 2:40 pm

beppi wrote:Let's also mention the recent scientific results showing that having more money doesn't lead to more fulfilled lives (independent of culture, there is no correlation) and we have all the East-West stereotypes in one thread!


:lol: Are you sure about that? I think if we thought hard we could come up with some more :-D

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 4:59 pm

k1w1 wrote:Yes, she has since had to admit that her torrent of emotional abuse was not the best way to motivate her child - but only because it backfired on her.


Exactly. What an asshole. She should be in prison.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 5:38 pm

I'm curious how it back-fired. Can anyone give a single sentence summary?

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:06 pm

JR8 wrote:I'm curious how it back-fired. Can anyone give a single sentence summary?


I didn't read the book, but from the interview I took that her daughter rebelled on her on the point of taking violin (or piano, I don't remember which) lessons, and she eventually was made to see that she was capable of making her own choices, and that parents sometimes have to choose their battles.

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:16 pm

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:
k1w1 wrote:Yes, she has since had to admit that her torrent of emotional abuse was not the best way to motivate her child - but only because it backfired on her.


Exactly. What an asshole. She should be in prison.


I don't disagree that she sounds like a heinous b!tch but I think imprisoning her is a little harsh. I wouldn't use her methods myself but I don't think they should be judged too harshly from an outsider's perspective.

I work in an industry where the whole family is often involved in the work. I have seen this type of parenting in practice in many families of Chinese origin, as well as families from former Soviet countries. FWIW, although at the time it seems the children are being terrorized, they grow up to be extremely successful (most often much more successful than their American/Western/Latin counterparts) and emotionally well-adjusted. I don't know how it works, but somehow it does. They love their parents and hold no resentment towards them for ill-treatment. So who am I to judge their parenting style, as long as they are not breaking any laws?

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:19 pm

No, I think what is at issue is that she believes that her harsh/criminal tactics of raising her daughters was worth their perceived success. Obviously I don't think there is ever a good reason to call a 7 year old 'garbage', refuse to let them go on a playdates for their entire childhood and refuse hand drawn birthday cards and dismiss then as 'junk'. But let's all clap for them when they perform at Carnegie Hall :roll:

It back fired because no matter how much back-peddling she does and morning 'news' shows she appears on ~ the death theats still come rolling in. Surprise, surprise.

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:25 pm

poodlek wrote:They love their parents and hold no resentment towards them for ill-treatment. So who am I to judge their parenting style, as long as they are not breaking any laws?


Respectfully: Bullsh*t! Systematic bullying of your children, refusing to give them bathroom breaks, telling them that being #1 in the 3rd grade is the only acceptable outcome, not allowing them to go on sleepovers ~ is disgusting and will breed resentment. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of their lives. If you want to equate Amy Chua's tactics with someone you've observed, go right ahead, but that is one slippery slope.

We should all judge, otherwise society has let those poor girls down. They need to know what happened to them wasn't right.

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:39 pm

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:
poodlek wrote:They love their parents and hold no resentment towards them for ill-treatment. So who am I to judge their parenting style, as long as they are not breaking any laws?


Respectfully: Bullsh*t! Systematic bullying of your children, refusing to give them bathroom breaks, telling them that being #1 in the 3rd grade is the only acceptable outcome, not allowing them to go on sleepovers ~ is disgusting and will breed resentment. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of their lives. If you want to equate Amy Chua's tactics with someone you've observed, go right ahead, but that is one slippery slope.

We should all judge, otherwise society has let those poor girls down. They need to know what happened to them wasn't right.


I'm not speaking for her kids, I'm only speaking for the families I know. And it's not too different, really. I don't speak Russian or Chinese, so I can't know what they are saying to their children, but I have observed denying bathroom breaks and demanding absolute excellence from small children. I have had the opportunity to know some of them from childhood into early adulthood and beyond, and have heard stories from adults to corroborate what I think I have observed. I don't make the comparison lightly. The issue for me here is that "society" is the lens through which we are viewing these practices, and maybe in Amy Chua's instance, society has shaped her children as well, making her parenting practices less effective. But there are instances outside of Western society where these things are not only perfectly acceptable, they are highly effective. What is considered child abuse is a social construct, and it's not the same across the board. So if in their society, the children don't consider themselves to be abused, why would they harbour resentment?

If you want to get really inflamed about "right" and "wrong" parenting, I suggest you pick up a copy of the book The Sambia: Ritual and Gender in New Guinea and see how that stacks up against Western ideals.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:49 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:How about I toss some fresh kindling on the smoldering fire...... :devil:


Well done, it worked! :)

Image

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:51 pm

JR8 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:How about I toss some fresh kindling on the smoldering fire...... :devil:


Well done, it worked! :)

Image


LOL who's fighting?? I thought we were having a civilized discussion!

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:56 pm

JR8 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:How about I toss some fresh kindling on the smoldering fire...... :devil:


Well done, it worked! :)

Image


Men are so weird. Whose fighting?

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 8:57 pm

I'm joking hehehe...

Do carry on!

edit to add: Can you not make the connection between the quoted comment from SMS and the image I posted? Jeez, women, no sense of humour! [that's a joke by the way!]

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 9:06 pm

JR8 wrote:I'm joking hehehe...

Do carry on!

edit to add: Can you not make the connection between the quoted comment from SMS and the image I posted? Jeez, women, no sense of humour! [that's a joke by the way!]


Dork! :-P

I was going to call SMS's submission troll bait, but so far the troll has not been baited... oh well, I'm still entertained :-)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 9:09 pm

That IS an image of women in a civilized discussion. They still got clothes on AND they aren't ripped & torn! :cool:

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 02 Feb 2011 9:30 pm

TL;DR. that said, Amy chua now has had to emphasize that "how I was humbled by a 13 year old " is part of her book's title.

Also, was kinda hoping for a cat fight. "Son, I am disappoint." /meme reference

:P :twisted:


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