Tyianchang, your post was offensive and insulting, on a myriad of levels. You really make a complete joke out of yourself calling anyone to task over their statements when you make deliberately inflammatory posts like that.
tyianchang wrote:
This isuue had been thrashed out upteen times but really, I am sorry if your feeling of being slighted has gripped you so deeply.
What are you talking about? Where did I say I felt slighted - about FP or anything else? I said I was annoyed that the issue was being glossed over and these discussions too often turn into a black and white, "them vs us" argument, which it has...
tyianchang wrote:
1. It is true that FP as in the Confucian sense and a cotinuous practice among most Chinese, but not all, is 'unheard of' among the average person in the west. That this is fact, is gleaned from schools and among the public and supported by the infrastructure in western countries where pensions and other forms of social security provide the aged ( though this is being undermined more and more so) and retireds with regular incomes and other benefits such as socail welfare and NHS ( some ameneded to being opened to privatisation currently). You might feel slighted for no rhyme or reason other than having some false sense of superiorty. But the fact is, children do not contribute towards their parents' retirement income in the west. Or in SG where there's CPF.
How many people have you sampled to come to the conclusion that Filial Peity, as practiced by Chinese, is unheard of in the West? You are claiming to have "gleaned" this from the public and from some school system. Where is that, exactly? Good grief... And again, with the accusation that I feel slighted. Based on what - and how would you know anyway?
I do not appreciate you claiming I have a false sense of superiority. Over whom do you think I have this feeling? Just you, or all of China? (Please, who is the one behaving like they are slighted here?
) What a ridiculous idea that is, and the fact that you resorted to such a personal and baseless insult says more about you than it does about me. To use your words and all.
tyianchang wrote:
When in time of needs, some parents might not get anything from tehir children; though that rests on individual cases. It's a shame that unacceptably harsh words are constantly used to debase the Chinese community everywhere by some of you either explicitly or by implications.
It's true some children do not take care of their elderly or needy parents. Every country has terrible cases of this. Are you suggesting this does not happen in Chinese culture?
I must say there is real irony in the fact that you take extreme offense to anything you perceive as an insult to China, but have no problem whatsoever in insulting all Western countries with debasing statements and derogatory comments (about people's behavior towards their parents etc) without even thinking about how others on the forum may perceive these statements.
You want to draw lines between Chinese Singaporeans and Chinese from China, but you apparently do not know that "Western countries" are not the same place. Very ironic show of ignorance really.
tyianchang wrote:
2. I have thought over the news in your link and these are my concerns.
a. It's not right for any groups to ASK (not demand) for more to be given than others. I can accept your expression of 'disgust' ( even though, the context of parents' losing their children's lives make it rather incredulous)((to someone with human sensitivities;)) but obviously empathies need to transcend identification with race for some, if not many.
So now you insinuate I don't even have human sensitivities? Oh well, isn't that just delightful?
I have already said in an earlier post that losing a child is a tragic and horrific ordeal. I feel very badly for these parents, as a mother myself, and I cannot begin to comprehend their grief - I sincerely hope none of us ever has to experience that. A parent's love for their child transcends all languages, culture, religions or whatever other differences people may have. Certainly anyone who is a parent themselves knows that what these poor people are going through must be worse than any kind of hell.
What I found disgusting was the suggestion that these parents had lost more than other parents and should be compensated more for it. I find it an outrageous suggestion that some people are more "valuable" (for want of a better word) than others. You may not be aware of this, but it is a huge part of New Zealand culture to hold egalitarian values. I'm not going to be naive and say this happens all the time or that you will never find snobs or jerks in New Zealand, but egalitarianism is a very important concept to New Zealanders. Perhaps it may be as important as the traditional concept of filial peity clearly is to you. For this reason, people here have taken *huge* offense at Chinese parents are asking for more money than other parents.
Their story is tragic, but so is the story of Jayden Andrews-Howland, also an only child, tragically killed when his bus was hit by falling masonry. Who is anyone to suggest his mother has not lost as much as other mothers?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christc ... ws-Howland
Then there is the story of the young woman, who only just became a mother, whose baby was killed by falling furniture. Is her child not as important as others?
Every one of these stories are awful, but I cannot accept that one person's child is a greater loss to their parents than another.
tyianchang wrote:
b. The quoted speech from Mr Lei does not seem fit in the whole context -and I would like to make further enqueries with the Chinese embassy about this. I'd send a photocopy and ask for verification and explanation in the light of your complaint.
c. From my own expereince with the Chinese, they would not ask for anything. For the embassy to ask for more than the others, it's new to me. And I want to know the truth. Currently, my suspicions are
1. the spokesman might be corrupted
2. there's a new assertiveness regarding material reimbursements
3. the Chinese govt might not know the details or the spokeman acted for the family rather than the country.
As a general rule, I don't believe until proven.
Your argument here is only connected to my op by implication. FP is only possible in the consideration of the treament of children towards their parents; and not even Confucius can decree how children should treat their parents. For you to use the op as a political tool in this context certainly lacks parity; FP comes from bottom up and not top down, except in cases of what goes round comes round.
It may surprise you to hear that I did think about these points as well. Yes, the embassy official who claimed to speak for the parents may well be corrupted. Yes, this could all be nonsense and blown out of proportion by the journalist. However, when a story is printed in international media, and the official is named and directly quoted, would this not be a sure lawsuit and not worth the selling of a few extra papers? There has been no retraction, no apology, no statement of clarification. There has been wide spread outrage though.
New Zealand is a tiny country at the bottom of the world. It bows down to relative super powers like China, going to (sometimes ludicrous) lengths to secure trade deals and bring foreign students in. That was clear in the thinly-veiled threat from the Chinese embassy spokesman when he suggested Chinese students may consider not coming to New Zealand in the future, should New Zealand not consider offering better compensation... If anything, this story would have been down-played as a political move.
tyianchang wrote:
It's necessary to find out if the Chinese govt considers FP as an additional payment when students or foreign nationals lost their lives in any eathquakes in China. Which would be FAIR enough then.
Again, I agree with this and wondered it myself. So I looked it up.
According to media reports, when children were killed in their school building by the earthquake in Sichuan just two years ago, their devastated parents were apparently *arrested* for asking for answers from the Chinese government about the state of their school building:
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18184
The parents were even told by the government they could not hold memorial services for their children:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rials.html
tyianchang wrote:
Lastly, I'm not Annie and we recognise persistent personal insults with delberate misuse of names as racist. This, unfortunately, reflects on you more than anything else. It all begins with self-respect and there're thousands of enlightened people reading this forum so do yourself a service. LOL
Thousands of enlightened people read this forum?
Well. I don't have any access to data that may dispute this claim, but I would find it surprising.
I apologise for the incorrect spelling of your nick. It was not my intention to be disrespectful. Had I known an accidental additional letter would cause such turmoil and grief, I would have been much more careful. I apologise if this error has incorrectly caused you to believe me a racist. I also unreservedly apologise for any offense this may have caused your family, your country, and to any of the readers who may be of Chinese origin or have Chinese family members. It was an innocent error and certainly not intended as a racist retort. I have noticed that I also mis-spelled "Asian" in that same post. I will amend that at the same time, in the hopes that our many avid followers will see that I am nothing close to a racist ignoramus in desperate need of self respect...
Sheesh. What a start to the day! I need a coffee now.
Multiple edits for grammar and spelling glitches...
As life goes on anyway.
