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Filial Piety Revisited

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anneteoh

Filial Piety Revisited

Postby anneteoh » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:44 am

Filial piety is an age old concept of family binding value, which I thought in the old days of feudal times, could be extremely onerous on young shoulders especially in cases of arranged marriages and such like self-sacrifices the young had to make for the elders in the family.

I recently had the opportunity to see how FP is practised in SG today, by most, if not all youngsters. Working adults often give their parents monthly pocket money, take them out for dinner every weekend and take their old folks on holidays, including pocket money for spending on trips abroad.

To me FP seems like a very nice consideration especialy as one approaches retirement and old age.

But FP is unheard of in the West where the individual reigns supreme, even within the family structure. With the current crisis on pensions, annuities and other financial shortfalls faced by the retireds, FP might be a jolly good idea. I mean, imagine getting such returns from your children - all of which goes without saying. A good culture to continue?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 6:52 am

Anne, while you were observing here, did you also take the time to go to the various old folks homes to see all those parents who have been abandoned by their children and never visited nor do the children even pay for their upkeep there after consigning them to the rubbish dump as a reward for bringing them up the best that they could? That's the other side of FP here in Singapore that no one wants to face nor admit too, but it's there for all to see.

Anyway, Hope you have a good CYN, wherever you are and however you practice it. :wink:

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Re: Filial Piety Revisited

Postby Plavt » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 6:57 am

anneteoh wrote:But FP is unheard of in the West where the individual reigns supreme, even within the family structure. With the current crisis on pensions, annuities and other financial shortfalls faced by the retireds, FP might be a jolly good idea. I mean, imagine getting such returns from your children - all of which goes without saying. A good culture to continue?


You clearly live a blinkered life.....

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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 7:08 am

Damn! What happened to my post? :???:

Well here's the gist of it:

anneteoh you are basing your premise on two gross stereotypes:

1. That a benevolent version of filial piety is practiced by 'most if not all youngsters' here in Singapore, and

2. the concept of filial piety is 'unheard of in the West'.

As I understand it, filial piety has more to do with respect and obedience and less to do with pocket money. Money means nothing without respect. I think children in Confucius's day treated their parents exactly as they do today ~ as they were taught to by their parents, regardless of geography.

Honor they mother and father is a universal concept.

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Re: Filial Piety Revisited

Postby nakatago » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 9:46 am

anneteoh wrote:I mean, imagine getting such returns from your children - all of which goes without saying. A good culture to continue?


This is a very dangerous mindset from parents. I know some people who have children just because they want good returns from them in the future and not because they want children to reach their full potential. They start really early to depend on the children. These children, in turn, fail to establish lives for themselves which further prevents them from properly taking care of their parents and doom their children's futures as well.

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Postby Saint » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 1:10 pm

How did the OP manage to post a thread as a guest :?

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Postby poodlek » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 5:48 pm

Just a question: do people get old age pension here in Singapore?

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Postby JayCee » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 5:52 pm

poodlek wrote:Just a question: do people get old age pension here in Singapore?


CPF

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Re: Filial Piety Revisited

Postby intellectualsmuse » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 6:08 pm

nakatago wrote:
anneteoh wrote:I mean, imagine getting such returns from your children - all of which goes without saying. A good culture to continue?


I know some people who have children just because they want good returns from them in the future and not because they want children to reach their full potential. They start really early to depend on the children. These children, in turn, fail to establish lives for themselves which further prevents them from properly taking care of their parents and doom their children's futures as well.


Wow! RROI -(Reproductive Return on Investment?)

Cost of raising child: $266,698 (Source:http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raising-child-calculator) (Assumption1: You send the kid to college)

Assume kid grows up and makes 4800$ per month

Assume kid is super dedicated and gives you 2000 $ per month for 40 years =2000*12*40= 960000

So Profit=693302 (960000-266698)

Hence ROI=2.5%

Seems very low from a pure "Return" perspective! Not to mention that I haven't factored in Time Value of Money and stuff....

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Postby curiousgeorge » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 6:21 pm

I think anneteoh is getting Filial piety confused with the Maintenance of Parents act in Singapore. Giving the parents pocket money is required by law in Singapore, under threat of order from a Tribunal.


And to say filial piety is unheard of in the west...my god, I guess the OP bases all opinion on hollywood movies!?

I am fuming at that attitude, given the house I bought for my mother, the mortgage payments I make for my sister, the carer I pay for my Great Uncle...and that is without any Maintenance of Parents Act!

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Postby tyianchang » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 6:52 pm

[quote="Saint"]How did the OP manage to post a thread as a guest :?[/quote

You're right there, Saint. There'd been some awfully stange things going on for me at this forum this morning. Someone's scammed me an advert titled 'Dont be deceived by these infestations' from Rentokill. I don't know how they had access to my email address.
The same culprit is messing things up and I had to fake a new registration to respond. Perhaps it can be cleared up and my user name restored. But I'm quite shocked by the few events going on since I returned a few days ago.
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Postby tyianchang » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 7:47 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Anne, while you were observing here, did you also take the time to go to the various old folks homes to see all those parents who have been abandoned by their children and never visited nor do the children even pay for their upkeep there after consigning them to the rubbish dump as a reward for bringing them up the best that they could? That's the other side of FP here in Singapore that no one wants to face nor admit too, but it's there for all to see.

Anyway, Hope you have a good CYN, wherever you are and however you practice it. :wink:


Drat! I've just lost a few paragraphs of meaning talk.

Kong Xi Fa Chai SMS and family, and all in this forum.
Haha, I have to find out what date CNY falls on. I've just returned from a coach tour of Europe with 28 relations from SG and now back in the UK。

Practice? If it's of FP, I think I need a second chance though one can't prevent one's parents' early demise. But my point is about the irony in life generally. It's often the case that we can't appreciate what we have but wish for what we don't have.

I trust you have seen much of SG and I know there must be old folks not cared for by their family and that's very sad, though like all else in life, there could be many reasons for it. Don't take me wrong, I would find it preferable to look into the negatives as a way forward myself as that would be a more realistic starting point than posing the positives.

But on the face of the current problems we face, like the frequenct spates of violence (most recent - bomb explosion killing 36 in Moscow ) and the financial crisis due to inflationary trends against monetary value leading to pension crisis for the elderly, I thought FP should be a good practice to reinvigorate. Youngsters imbued with the sensitive issues concerning FP should be less easily influenced by outisde ideologies and peer groups.

I think SG presents a ratio of 7:3 of FP against that of non FP? ?

As Curious George had pointed out, it's mandatory in SG - so is that a necessary legal requirement to ensure the elderly are cared for or is it an imposition on the children? As you'd said, many old folks are abandoned in SG - doesn't the govt follow their cases up with their children? Would that be considered an interference?
Last edited by tyianchang on Tue, 25 Jan 2011 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 7:59 pm

tyianchang wrote: But on the face of the current problems we face, like the frequenct spates of violence (most recent - bomb explosion killing 36 in Moscow ) and the financial crisis due to inflationary trends against monetary value leading to pension crisis for the elderly, I thought FP should be a good practice to reinvigorate. Youngsters imbued with the sensitive issues concerning FP should be less easily influenced by outisde ideologies and peer groups.

I think SG presents a ratio of 7:3 of FP against that of non FP? ?

As Curious George had pointed out, it's mandatory in SG - so is that a necessary legal requirement to ensure the elderly are cared for or is it an imposition on the children? As you'd said, many old folks are abandoned in SG - doesn't the govt follow their cases up with their children? Would that be considered an interference?


:???:

I know you have a point here, but the life of me I can't find it...

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 8:22 pm

:lol:

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Postby tyianchang » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 8:26 pm

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:Damn! What happened to my post? :???:

Well here's the gist of it:

anneteoh you are basing your premise on two gross stereotypes:

1. That a benevolent version of filial piety is practiced by 'most if not all youngsters' here in Singapore, and

2. the concept of filial piety is 'unheard of in the West'.

As I understand it, filial piety has more to do with respect and obedience and less to do with pocket money. Money means nothing without respect. I think children in Confucius's day treated their parents exactly as they do today ~ as they were taught to by their parents, regardless of geography.

Honor they mother and father is a universal concept.


Hi MHB, I was prevented from replying as somehow someone had messed up my user name etc . So I had to get a different name to enter the forum and respond to the posts.

As far as I know FP is also related to the maintenance of the parents in Chinese culture. If you remember, there wasn't any pension schemes or social welfare in pre-revolutioany China.

It would be nice if all Chinese children have the virtue prescribed in the Analects of Confucius; most do, I presume but however much that's retained, the nuances have shifted e.g. children talk to their parents as peers on equal footing and would argue. In my time, arguements would be considered unvirtuous.

You're right about respect. But what it should entail is relative e.g. from the expectations of the older folks the younger generation for example. This is especially more so if the children come from mixed cultures.

Indeed, honour thy mother and thy father is written in stone. I agree there's much respect for parents in the West too, in some cases, more so than with some Chinese families; but it's usually unheard of that working children give money to their parents in the West. That what I meant. The pension system etc ensure that so it's usually the other way round - esp nowadays when many children continue to live with their parents after finishing school and working.

I know moeny does not equal respect but people do fight over money and most of us would rather keep the dough to ourselves than give it away. I'm saying that when children have the thought of giving their parents some money every month, take them out etc, show such love and care - it must be a very nice thing to have in our culture.

This isn't meant to be a generalisation but a comment on the general trend so no offence. But as Curious George pointed out, he is a FP practitioner and that's a thing to be proud of.
tyianchang


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