Outstanding Salary Payment from Previous Employer‏

poorsoul · Post by **poorsoul** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:55 am

I have worked with this company since August as a Admin Executive. Under the employment contract that I have signed with them, if either party decided to terminate the contract during the probation, a month of notice must be given. On December 2010, I was told by the Asst Manager,(under the instruction of the Senior Manager) that I failed to meet their expectations.

As they do not have any ground to terminate me, I was told to resign on my own accord. At that moment, I have asked if I would need to fulfill my one month notice. He told me that I would not need to turn up to work as they will buy off my notice period. No official letter was given though. I know that, under general employment terms, if the company decided to buy off the notice period of the staff, they will have to make immediate payment, or not least that 7 days. As such, I have asked the the company on the payment date of my salary. I was told that they will only pay me on the end of the December. I told them to try to expedite the payment as I was worried that they will try to delay my payment. As such, almost everyday I tried to contact them to expedite the payment but to no avail.

On end December 2010, I have got to know from them that 3 vouchers (SGD$100 each) under my care were lost. I must clarify this first, I have never take these vouchers for my personal use. I really don't know what happened to the first 2 vouchers. For all I know, every vouchers that I received, I have sent out. This is not the first time during my employment there that I have sent something to the staff but they said they have not received it!

As for the last piece of the voucher, I received it 2 days before I was told to leave. On the next day I was on Medical Leave and the next day, I was told to go. When I was told to leave, I have leaved the last voucher in my drawer. I leaved with empty hand on that day as I was escorted out.

Whatever it is, I accepted that all were lost in my possession and I have told them that I will buy back the vouchers and send all $300 it back to them. In fact, I have already sent the vouchers back to them. I was told by them thru sms (no official letter) that they are not going to pay me the salary as they intended to dismiss me thru 'unethical conduct'. How can they, on end of December, decided to terminate me while they are suppose to pay my salary on December? Furthermore, no internal enquiry was done to determine that there is indeed an unethical conduct. I suspect that all along, they have intended not to pay my salary as they have dragged this for quite some times. As I really did not steal these vouchers, I am not worried even if they decided to make a police report. I have sent numerous emails to the Sr Manager but she did not replied me at all!!

As my salary and position has exceeded the requirements in the Employment Act, Ministry of Manpower is unable to assist me in recovering my salary. I was told by the officer from the Ministry of Manpower that the only option available to me is to seek legal help. I did tried to seek legal help but was told that the legal fees might, in the end, be more than what that I could recover from the company. I was really on the losing end.

I hope you guys understand that for a typical middle group income earner like me, a one month salary is very important. I have got bills to pay and creditors knocking at my door everyday asking me to make payment. I really hope anyone that are able to advise on how recover this salary arrears which is rightfully mine.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:25 am

poorsoul wrote:I have worked with this company since August as a Admin Executive. Under the employment contract that I have signed with them, if either party decided to terminate the contract during the probation, a month of notice must be given. On December 2010, I was told by the Asst Manager,(under the instruction of the Senior Manager) that I failed to meet their expectations.

As they do not have any ground to terminate me, I was told to resign on my own accord. At that moment, I have asked if I would need to fulfill my one month notice. He told me that I would not need to turn up to work as they will buy off my notice period. No official letter was given though. I know that, under general employment terms, if the company decided to buy off the notice period of the staff, they will have to make immediate payment, or not least that 7 days. As such, I have asked the the company on the payment date of my salary. I was told that they will only pay me on the end of the December. I told them to try to expedite the payment as I was worried that they will try to delay my payment. As such, almost everyday I tried to contact them to expedite the payment but to no avail.

On end December 2010, I have got to know from them that 3 vouchers (SGD$100 each) under my care were lost. I must clarify this first, I have never take these vouchers for my personal use. I really don't know what happened to the first 2 vouchers. For all I know, every vouchers that I received, I have sent out. This is not the first time during my employment there that I have sent something to the staff but they said they have not received it!

As for the last piece of the voucher, I received it 2 days before I was told to leave. On the next day I was on Medical Leave and the next day, I was told to go. When I was told to leave, I have leaved the last voucher in my drawer. I leaved with empty hand on that day as I was escorted out.

Whatever it is, I accepted that all were lost in my possession and I have told them that I will buy back the vouchers and send all $300 it back to them. In fact, I have already sent the vouchers back to them. I was told by them thru sms (no official letter) that they are not going to pay me the salary as they intended to dismiss me thru 'unethical conduct'. How can they, on end of December, decided to terminate me while they are suppose to pay my salary on December? Furthermore, no internal enquiry was done to determine that there is indeed an unethical conduct. I suspect that all along, they have intended not to pay my salary as they have dragged this for quite some times. As I really did not steal these vouchers, I am not worried even if they decided to make a police report. I have sent numerous emails to the Sr Manager but she did not replied me at all!!

As my salary and position has exceeded the requirements in the Employment Act, Ministry of Manpower is unable to assist me in recovering my salary. I was told by the officer from the Ministry of Manpower that the only option available to me is to seek legal help. I did tried to seek legal help but was told that the legal fees might, in the end, be more than what that I could recover from the company. I was really on the losing end.

I hope you guys understand that for a typical middle group income earner like me, a one month salary is very important. I have got bills to pay and creditors knocking at my door everyday asking me to make payment. I really hope anyone that are able to advise on how recover this salary arrears which is rightfully mine.

Frankly, based on what you have written, both of you would seem to be in the wrong. Your own comments (bolded) seem to contradict each other. Frankly, if you have offered to reimburse and/or returned the vouchers, you have admitted to wrongdoing by default. Therefore, they have the right to terminate you with cause (no notice is needed). As you have nothing in writing at all about being given 'salary in lieu' you have nothing except a lesson to be very careful with valuables entrusted to you while in your workplace. You legal fees will far outstrip your salary gained if you win, but you will probably lose and be that much further in the hole.

Walk away with a lesson learned. Never take anybody's word for anything. Always get it signed in writing.

poorsoul · Post by **poorsoul** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:38 am

the only reason that I have sent the vouchers back to the company is that it's only a $300 kind of thing and i really hope to get my pay back..

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:31 pm

So if you stole $300 dollars from the company, they should trust you? Steal $300 from me, I'll terminate you on the spot! For a lot less that than actually. They were giving you the option to resign so you did not have a black mark on your employment history for being terminated. Pursue this and not only will you not get the month's salary, but you will also get a black mark on your resume that will follow you throughout your life as you will be labeled as a thief. They have the proof. You were supposed to send the vouchers somewhere and you pocketed them instead. Then you sent the vouchers back to them. I'm afraid you have dug a hole you can't climb out of. If they leave it as it is, you will be lucky as they were only trying to help you to keep a clean employment history by asking you to resign without having to give a month's notice or pay a month's notice in lieu of - for doing that, they would not file a police report.

poorsoul · Post by **poorsoul** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 3:04 pm

I'll say it again. I did not pocket these vouchers. I have sent it out to the respective personnel. In fact, this is not the first time that this happened. Earlier, I have also experienced this once, I have gave it personally by hand to the employee, then the next week she dare to complain to the manager that they have not received it. At that moment, everybody point finger to me. After further probing, the staff admitted that she had actually forgotten that I have gave it to her. And I was not terminated because of this ok. At the point when I was told to go, it was supposed for some performance matters. I was promised at that point that the in lieu payment will be paid to me.

In fact, let me say it again, I don't mind them making a police report. I believe, I have never do it, hence I am not worry about it. The problem is, I really need the money to pay off some bills.

Please do not make any allegations if you are unsure of the actual situations.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 4:04 pm

That is why it is so important to study English and learn to read and write well......

Go back and read your first post. Especially the lines that I bolded.

Now,

Please do not make any allegations if you are unsure of the actual situations.

.....go back and read my last post which starts: So if..... This is not a accusation, this is a theoretical statement. English is so important to get the nuances correct. Just like Mandarin, where it's so important to get the tonal qualities correct.

So, did you or didn't you return the vouchers? I'm still puzzled how you could return what you did not have? In any case, your forgetfulness would have had a direct impact on your performance.

So back to your original query, to sue the employer for the notice pay, when your termination is questionable, would probably cost more than your monthly salary. I would have suggested that you try the Small Claims Tribunal but, upon checking, they do not handle Employment matters so that would mean going to the civil court. That would mean lawyers and costs of which you might not recover, in addition to the salaries you claim are owed to you.

I don't know of any other legal means to recover, other than the courts.

JayCee · Post by **JayCee** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 6:08 pm

How could you send back vouchers to the company if you say you no longer had them? That's not physically possible. The only way you could have them is if you didn't in fact send them out before (either because you pocketed them or for some other reason like you forgot).

Something smells fishy to me

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 6:36 pm

Y'all are being rather hard on the OP. I get that this is a person that may not have been aware that vouchers might be stolen, and has attempted to make amends.

That the OP's English is not that of a native speaker, I suggest that you might err on the side of communications issues, rather than going for the jugular.

sand_ste · Post by **sand_ste** » Wed, 12 Jan 2011 8:56 pm

JayCee wrote:How could you send back vouchers to the company if you say you no longer had them? That's not physically possible. The only way you could have them is if you didn't in fact send them out before (either because you pocketed them or for some other reason like you forgot).

Something smells fishy to me

i think what he was trying to say is:

- he has lost 1st and 2nd voucher
- he has given the 3rd voucher back but noone acknowledge it

and thus, he wanted to give it all back with cold hard cash of $300.

i think...

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:05 am

sand_ste wrote:
JayCee wrote:How could you send back vouchers to the company if you say you no longer had them? That's not physically possible. The only way you could have them is if you didn't in fact send them out before (either because you pocketed them or for some other reason like you forgot).

Something smells fishy to me
i think what he was trying to say is:

- he has lost 1st and 2nd voucher
- he has given the 3rd voucher back but noone acknowledge it

and thus, he wanted to give it all back with cold hard cash of $300.

i think...

That's what I wanted to think as well, except in the first post she wrote the following:

As for the last piece of the voucher, I received it 2 days before I was told to leave. On the next day I was on Medical Leave and the next day, I was told to go. When I was told to leave, I have leaved the last voucher in my drawer. I leaved with empty hand on that day as I was escorted out.

Which means she couldn't have given back the third voucher either as they already had it, theoretically.

There is definitely a communications error and if this thread is any indication, then dog knows what kind of communications errors she has had with her employer. What they actually told her may not even resemble what she is trying, rather unsuccessfully, to relate to us. I don't guess we'll ever know for sure.

poorsoul · Post by **poorsoul** » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 8:44 am

sorry, my fault for not explaining this clearly. it's some takashimaya vouchers. i went back down to takashimaya to buy back the vouchers and send it back to the company..

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 9:15 am

Okay. That clears it up substantially.

My former advice still stands. You can take the employer to civil court and stand to lose both the costs of hiring a lawyer AND not get the final salary. As you had pointed out, There were some forgetful traits and strange happenings of which you seem to acknowledge but do not know why they have happened. They asked you resign instead of them terminating you. If you resigned, and don't have a letter from the employer staying your requirement of working out a month's notice, then technically, "you" would have to pay salary in lieu of notice as it is "you" who resigned. They now have been nice by allowing you to go without the need for notice even though it was you who resigned. So they now have you between a rock & and hard place. Without anything in writing....... But, if you really want to gamble, go for it.

sand_ste · Post by **sand_ste** » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 2:19 pm

poorsoul wrote:sorry, my fault for not explaining this clearly. it's some takashimaya vouchers. i went back down to takashimaya to buy back the vouchers and send it back to the company..

its just $300 vouchers... i dont think you deserve to be sacked just because some shopping vouchers...

well that shows how "good" your company is... i believe u can find a better one in future time.

premierse · Post by **premierse** » Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:36 pm

poorsoul,
1. I think you can ask your family member to help you to get through the bills, and i hope you've had join another company and have your salary paid.
(i suggest in the first line because you need the funds immediately to pay for it)

2. As what others have suggested you, it's not worth your time to 'fight' with the company, because you don't have any proof of what you had been told for your one-month notice and that you had sent the vouchers.

If you'd insisted to 'fight' them, you'll probably lose twice of your salary (one is your have-to-be-paid, and the other one is because you didn't give any resign-notice) and also you have to pay for the lawyer?

Hope you can get through this and always be careful in such case.

-premierse-

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