Singapore Expats Forum

Living in Phuket

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 6:27 am

ozchick wrote:...thing that I cringe at are the sleazy old white guys with the young Asian girls...


'Sleazy'? Each side of the couples you see have found a common meeting ground. For her, it's money and someone who treats her decently. For him, it's sex and someone to cuddle. Maybe it's make believe and...

If he's sleazy, then she is sleazy as well... it takes two to tango. And why judge others at all who have voluntarily created the relationship? Skip the judgments and MYOB, and the world is a much nicer place.

User avatar
Mary Hatch Bailey
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: Thu, 06 Oct 2005
Location: Bedford Falls

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 7:44 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
ozchick wrote:...thing that I cringe at are the sleazy old white guys with the young Asian girls...


'Sleazy'? Each side of the couples you see have found a common meeting ground. For her, it's money and someone who treats her decently. For him, it's sex and someone to cuddle. Maybe it's make believe and...

If he's sleazy, then she is sleazy as well... it takes two to tango. And why judge others at all who have voluntarily created the relationship? Skip the judgments and MYOB, and the world is a much nicer place.


It's not that easy SE [-X

If the relationship is as you describe, then he is taking advantage of her and exploiting her poverty, ignorance and lack of self-worth for sexual favors. There is no balance of power, and that's what makes it wrong. If someone wanted to treat her 'decently' they wouldn't perpetuate her life as a prostitute, they would convince her that her worth lies in her brain not her body.

Plavt
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4289
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Plavt » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 9:03 am

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote: If someone wanted to treat her 'decently' they wouldn't perpetuate her life as a prostitute, they would convince her that her worth lies in her brain not her body.


Just how would anybody manage that when ivariably such young girls come from a society where poverty and ignorance rules even though I and many others agree. :( :(

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34259
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 12:30 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
ozchick wrote:...thing that I cringe at sleazy old white guys with the young Asian girls...


'Sleazy'? Each side of the couples you see have found a common meeting ground. For her, it's money and someone who treats her decently. For him, it's sex and someone to cuddle. Maybe it's make believe and...
.


Interesting comments being made here. The above statements are open ended and could pertain to every couple on the globe for all we know. Could even apply in the reverse. As far as sleazy is concerned, it's only so in the eyes of the onlooker. If both are satisfied with the relationship, who's to say when it become sleazy? At what age difference do that makes it sleazy? 1 years difference? 2? 5? 15? or 25? Does is matter if the ages are reversed? Or is it a double standard? Witness the beachboys in Bali? Gigolos aren't just a feature of western movies. Is it bad when it's a 20 year old with a 40 year old man? If so, why isn't is bad when a 60 year old woman i with an 80 year old man? They will be one of them someday if all goes right. And today, they have just about as much chance an anybody else. In fact, I'd say today, they have a better than average chance than "normal" couples looking a current divorce statistics.

I grant you, most east-west marriages fail within 2 years, but the rest? The ones that I know (and as I'm in one without the age differences) have lasted decades just like mine has. Regardless of the girls background or the guys money. Oh, wait a minute, that sound like we are talking about a lot of marriages in any major cities. Or for that matter, arranged marriages in a lot of very large countries. The girl is looking to escape from poverty and the guy is looking for a youth rejuvenation program or a trophy wife, or eye candy. Or, as SE points out, someone to cuddle with who doesn't have their sights on a career that will cause her to neglect her husband.

Everybody had their different needs, they rest of us shouldn't condemn them because their needs are different than ours.

Of course that's just my skewed POV. :wink:

User avatar
Mary Hatch Bailey
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: Thu, 06 Oct 2005
Location: Bedford Falls

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 1:08 pm

Plavt wrote:
Mary Hatch Bailey wrote: If someone wanted to treat her 'decently' they wouldn't perpetuate her life as a prostitute, they would convince her that her worth lies in her brain not her body.


Just how would anybody manage that when ivariably such young girls come from a society where poverty and ignorance rules even though I and many others agree. :( :(


So because it's hard we shouldn't bother trying?

User avatar
Mary Hatch Bailey
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: Thu, 06 Oct 2005
Location: Bedford Falls

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 1:26 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote: If both are satisfied with the relationship, who's to say when it become sleazy? At what age difference do that makes it sleazy? 1 years difference? 2? 5? 15? or 25? Does is matter if the ages are reversed? Or is it a double standard? Witness the beachboys in Bali? Gigolos aren't just a feature of western movies. Is it bad when it's a 20 year old with a 40 year old man? If so, why isn't is bad when a 60 year old woman i with an 80 year old man? They will be one of them someday if all goes right. And today, they have just about as much chance an anybody else. In fact, I'd say today, they have a better than average chance than "normal" couples looking a current divorce statistics.

I grant you, most east-west marriages fail within 2 years, but the rest? The ones that I know (and as I'm in one without the age differences) have lasted decades just like mine has. Regardless of the girls background or the guys money. Oh, wait a minute, that sound like we are talking about a lot of marriages in any major cities. Or for that matter, arranged marriages in a lot of very large countries. The girl is looking to escape from poverty and the guy is looking for a youth rejuvenation program or a trophy wife, or eye candy. Or, as SE points out, someone to cuddle with who doesn't have their sights on a career that will cause her to neglect her husband.


It's not the race difference or the age difference, it's the power difference. A rich person who takes such clear advantage advantage of a poor, uneducated person is not harmless or benign. The corporate equivalent is baby formula companies convincing poor african women that formula is better than breast milk.

Everybody had their different needs, they rest of us shouldn't condemn them because their needs are different than ours.


The rest of us should very much condemn them if laws are broken or someone is being hurt. To take it to the extreme, a pedophile has needs too. The rule should not be 'it's OK, everyone has different needs' but rather: 'everyone is entitled to meet their own needs as long as they don't hurt anyone else. Those of us with daughters need only ask ourselves if we would be happy if they were to compromise their future and values for a bowl of noodles and a $50. Or for that matter if we'd be happy to see them objectify themselves by teetering around in stilettos and half covered in a mini-skirt when he's wearing running shoes and a stained polo shirt that can't cover his beer gut.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9160
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 1:43 pm

It is not about the difference in power neither. It is all about true intentions.

User avatar
longstebe
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu, 24 Sep 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby longstebe » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 1:53 pm

So ladies, what your saying is every Asian women with a older gentleman is wrong and you will judge them.

I've seen university students in Thailand having relationships with older Asian gentleman, is this sleazy?

I also know of plenty of middle aged women who would love to meet a westerner of any age, is this sleazy?

Whats to say the young Asian lady is very smart and taking full advantage of there older husband, is this ok?

You lot amaze me, IMHO your are mostly jealous and won't admit to it.

Another thing, if you where to walk around the mall with your 20yr old son, I can judge you and think it's sleazy.

My point is you don't know peoples situations so what gives you the right to judge.

Plavt
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4289
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Plavt » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 1:53 pm

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:
Plavt wrote:
Mary Hatch Bailey wrote: If someone wanted to treat her 'decently' they wouldn't perpetuate her life as a prostitute, they would convince her that her worth lies in her brain not her body.


Just how would anybody manage that when ivariably such young girls come from a society where poverty and ignorance rules even though I and many others agree. :( :(


So because it's hard we shouldn't bother trying?


I didn't say we shouldn't but the fact is in the vast majority of cases it is, shame to say, a waste of time not too mention how much funding is necessary. There are way too many regions in the world where young women are subject to abject poverty. Do you think such people give a dam about morals, education or even self-respect? I think the question answers itself.

I agree with your point it is not simply a question of age differences as sms assumes.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 2:00 pm

Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
ozchick wrote:...thing that I cringe at are the sleazy old white guys with the young Asian girls...


'Sleazy'? Each side of the couples you see have found a common meeting ground. For her, it's money and someone who treats her decently. For him, it's sex and someone to cuddle. Maybe it's make believe and...

If he's sleazy, then she is sleazy as well... it takes two to tango. And why judge others at all who have voluntarily created the relationship? Skip the judgments and MYOB, and the world is a much nicer place.


It's not that easy SE [-X

If the relationship is as you describe, then he is taking advantage of her and exploiting her poverty, ignorance and lack of self-worth for sexual favors. There is no balance of power, and that's what makes it wrong. If someone wanted to treat her 'decently' they wouldn't perpetuate her life as a prostitute, they would convince her that her worth lies in her brain not her body.


It's still not that easy. Why is sex 'exploitation' whereas putting her to work in a clothing factory or retail store for long hours and low pay is not exploitation?

And what kind of relationship are we talking about? A one night stand, picked up in one of the many bars? Or an older guy that has hooked up with a younger woman, each getting what they need?

And what is the 'correct' age differential wherein it is no longer 'sleaze' and 'exploitation' and becomes a relationship? 3 years? 10 years? 20 years?

The situation is much more complicated than calling some older white guy sleazy and applying wholesale the term 'exploitation'. I have older acquaintances living in Thailand that have been 'exploiting' their much younger Thai wives for many years.

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Postby nakatago » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 2:06 pm

While 'sleazy' is still a very debatable assessment, I think "creepy" would be in better consideration to describe the situation. Think about someone being young enough to be a daughter (or granddaughter!) while having some of yourself would certainly put thoughts running...

:?

User avatar
Mary Hatch Bailey
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: Thu, 06 Oct 2005
Location: Bedford Falls

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 2:22 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Mary Hatch Bailey wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
ozchick wrote:...thing that I cringe at are the sleazy old white guys with the young Asian girls...


'Sleazy'? Each side of the couples you see have found a common meeting ground. For her, it's money and someone who treats her decently. For him, it's sex and someone to cuddle. Maybe it's make believe and...

If he's sleazy, then she is sleazy as well... it takes two to tango. And why judge others at all who have voluntarily created the relationship? Skip the judgments and MYOB, and the world is a much nicer place.


It's not that easy SE [-X

If the relationship is as you describe, then he is taking advantage of her and exploiting her poverty, ignorance and lack of self-worth for sexual favors. There is no balance of power, and that's what makes it wrong. If someone wanted to treat her 'decently' they wouldn't perpetuate her life as a prostitute, they would convince her that her worth lies in her brain not her body.


It's still not that easy. Why is sex 'exploitation' whereas putting her to work in a clothing factory or retail store for long hours and low pay is not exploitation?


Wait! Why do we have to find only one thing to be outraged by?? :o Those are all forms of exploitation if she is treated unfairly and motivated by ignorance or grinding poverty.

And what kind of relationship are we talking about? A one night stand, picked up in one of the many bars? Or an older guy that has hooked up with a younger woman, each getting what they need?

And what is the 'correct' age differential wherein it is no longer 'sleaze' and 'exploitation' and becomes a relationship? 3 years? 10 years? 20 years?

The situation is much more complicated than calling some older white guy sleazy and applying wholesale the term 'exploitation'. I have older acquaintances living in Thailand that have been 'exploiting' their much younger Thai wives for many years.


Not sure about the others, but I'm referring very specifically to the commercial exchange of sex for money (food, clothing, shelter). I live spitting distance from Orchard Towers. I see the meet-up, the exchange of terms and the aftermath with great regularity. As long as it's legal, I don't care about the age difference, but I'm not sure I'd have a lot of admiration for a man or woman that was in a relationship with someone that could be their grandson or daughter.

User avatar
longstebe
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu, 24 Sep 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby longstebe » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 2:40 pm

Now I'm confused.

Are you now saying you only have a problem with paying for sex?

For the people who think it's sleazy or creepy, (paying for sex) the women or men are providing a service in return for money, imagine what they could or would be doing if it were not to be. Next time your car or house is broken into don't come crying on here.

Also, many older guys who have not long been divorced and travel to SE Asia to find love and get it, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
The question is, what would you do if you found yourself washed up at age 60, alone.

I know where I would be.

And I'm sure that goes for women too.

User avatar
Mary Hatch Bailey
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: Thu, 06 Oct 2005
Location: Bedford Falls

Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 2:55 pm

longstebe wrote:So ladies, what your saying is every Asian women with a older gentleman is wrong and you will judge them.


No one is saying that and race has nothing to do with it.

I've seen university students in Thailand having relationships with older Asian gentleman, is this sleazy?


Could be, who knows?

I also know of plenty of middle aged women who would love to meet a westerner of any age, is this sleazy?

Could be. How long is a piece of (g) string ?

Whats to say the young Asian lady is very smart and taking full advantage of there older husband, is this ok?

Again ~ who knows. You've tried to set up scenarios that would refute an argument that was never made :roll:

You lot amaze me, IMHO your are mostly jealous and won't admit to it.


Jealous of an 18 (cough, cough) year old prostitute who has to support a family of fat-ass ne-er-do-wells in {fill in home country here} by giving blow jobs to some sweaty old man in a back room of a two-bit beer hall?

Another thing, if you where to walk around the mall with your 20yr old son, I can judge you and think it's sleazy.

Except that he's 18, he looks exactly like me so no one wouldn't think he was my son, he's is not dressed like a slut and more importantly ~ you're right. I can't control what other people think.

My point is you don't know peoples situations so what gives you the right to judge.


Some actions are so heinous, they shout down a person's 'situation'. If I see someone kick a dog, I really don't care about the situation. When I see a maid stooped by a dining table without a chair and spoon-feeding an eight year old while the family fills their gobs ~ that's all the information I need. What gives me the right to judge is the rising gorge I feel when I see someone being taken advantage of, that's what gives me and others the right. Not all judgement is bad. History is full of revered people who have stepped up when outraged and made judgements to change the world for the better: Abraham Lincoln, Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks, Mother Theresa, Nellie Bly, Oskar Schindler.

User avatar
Mary Hatch Bailey
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: Thu, 06 Oct 2005
Location: Bedford Falls

Re: Living in Phuket

Postby Mary Hatch Bailey » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 3:12 pm

Plavt wrote:There are way too many regions in the world where young women are subject to abject poverty. Do you think such people give a dam about morals, education or even self-respect? I think the question answers itself.


It does and the answer is 'Yes'! :D It is the human condition to want to do the right thing, to aspire to learn to respect one's self.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests