Business idea.

[Shark.]

Okay so i'l lay my thoughts on the table..

I'm thinking about setting up a bar in Singapore , simple design , just Pool , Music and of course the bar itself ...

Now with a bit of hard work and struggle , i should be able to raise enough capital to finance it...

My questions are simple , I understand the idea has been used a million times over in Singapore , i would obviously personalize my bar but no thought have risen on that yet.

I understand that you guys are very knowledgeable when it comes to things like this so i'm asking for advice and opinions.

1. Do you think it's a profitable idea ? ( obviously depending on the location).

2.Are there any age restrictions on Permits such as Liquor and food ? .. e.g Are people under the age of 20 likely to be accepted?

Also , i will probably be bringing in a partner/investor in the business, and they are Singaporean citizens.

I'm looking for open thoughts, Advice and opinions on the matter, and please do tell it like it is , the truth is sometimes harsh.

So what do you think?

Thanks.

[sundaymorningstaple]

New bars & pubs open and fail on a monthly basis in this town. One more opening and failure wont be noticed. Unless you have several million to invest on a large scale, I cannot see it being profitable if you have to bring in partners who will obviously want a share of the profits. Oh, you'll have to quit your day job as well, which means you will stay drunk a lot and what little share you get, will end up in the urinal. If it's your money and you are looking for something to do, you might be okay as long as you don't have to make a living. Without a concept you are doomed to failure. Even with a concept the odds are against you in the long term.

Course, other will disagree with me, but this is just my POV.

[Shark.]

Hey you're being honest , i appreciate that , just know that i am serious about it , i think i will wait for a few other replies.

Also if anyone has done anything similar in the past , some tips would be handy , advice etc.

[ecureilx]

Answers in a nutshell - And SMS was not far off anyway ..

I'm thinking about setting up a bar in Singapore , simple design , just Pool , Music and of course the bar itself ...

Well, that about sums up 99% of the bars- what is your differentiator ?? And in my few years mopping floors in bars, there is a trade-off - pool table occupies space, and that space can be used to put more tables / seats .. And the prime winner is location, location, location and location ..

My questions are simple , I understand the idea has been used a million times over in Singapore , i would obviously personalize my bar but no thought have risen on that yet.

You need to fix that first, as the 'concept' - even if it means no-frills, should be fixed and workable - not change on the fly .. and the music too - rock, pop, RnB, country, soul, blue-grass .. there is no one size fit all, except those bars that caters to the Sunday Drinkers in a few certain locations where any music goes ..

I understand that you guys are very knowledgeable when it comes to things like this so i'm asking for advice and opinions.

Dunno about the others, but as a newbie - I AM FLATTERED MATE

1. Do you think it's a profitable idea ? ( obviously depending on the location).

Somebody told me - to start a bar, take 50,000 $ and flush it down the toilet, and then if you feel no remorse, do it again, and if you still don't feel bad - you are ready to start one ..

2.Are there any age restrictions on Permits such as Liquor and food ? ..

Yes, the Police Licensing is very strict for liquor, and enough bars have been planned, furniture bought, and credit established with suppliers, and with a missing license, had to call in the liquodators .. I know a few personally

Food - NEA needs to check the premises, and certify it as well.

e.g Are people under the age of 20 likely to be accepted?

You are kidding right ??? don't tell me you are in your teens ??? Pray, legally speaking, if you are caught inside a bar with or without alcohol in your hand, you can still create enough trouble for the licensee - now how would you run a bar if you can't even be inside ??

Also , i will probably be bringing in a partner/investor in the business, and they are Singaporean citizens.

Good idea - spread the losses ..

I'm looking for open thoughts, Advice and opinions on the matter, and please do tell it like it is , the truth is sometimes harsh.

Ok - here I go - I have worked for about 3 years plus in bars, invested in a bar that went belly up in 3 months and lost about 30,000 $ and now limit myself to an occasional drink in the bar - though my dream of an ideal bar still floats around once in a while.

If you want to start one - you should go at a start up capital of atleast 300,000 or more - considering average rental for a decent place can set you back atleast 15,000 or more, and you need to bunk in 5 months rental as standby, and then put up money for suppliers, and add in the furniture, that is not a bad number - and remember: the more you dump, the more you need to make sure your place is filled - the smaller it is, the lesser stress you have ..

Most of the successful bars started off at 300,000 or higher as initial: those below that - yah, they do run, but it is a hand to mouth existance, and a continuous downpour or a government remark that the economy maybe going downhill is enough to keep customers away ..

I personally am close with a few bar operators - more than as a customer - and wouldn't mind doing a reference - but the key thing in bars is - you got to have money to make money. A rare few started small and grew big. Most started big and became medium / small - unless there is some xyz affair to keep dumping money or it is OPM (other people's money)

Final word: YOU NEED TO BE DAMN FREAKING LUCKY AND LUCKY LIKE HELL TO MAKE IT IN THE BAR BUSINESS I MEAN LOADS AND LOADS OF LUCK ..

Cheers

[Shark.]

Wow , thanks for that informative reply ..

I'm just shy of 20 so what i'm saying is the gov likely to give someone like me a permit.

Now i haven't pulled all my thought together about details , simply because i don't want to even think bout it too much if it's very unlikely .. but i'm pretty sure i can pull unique ideas into it.

I didn't really prepare an estimate but i was thinking around the 100,000 S$ to start-up...

and i understand it's alot of work etc , but i'm not afraid of hard work , especially if it will pay off.

There's also the matter of a VISA , but I've read a few great posts on this forum and i don't think it will be too difficult.

[Clever Eagle]

Hey Shark,

Ecureilx is very right.

Couple of things you need to think about:
(1) How you are going to differentiate yourself from the other bars. Unique idea might not mean that people will be sold on it.
(2) Rental is going to be very costly. Its a chicken and egg thing. If you want good location, rental are high and vice versa
(3) Even if you obtain a license, you will also need to know what kind of alcohol/ drinks to purchase- this again is additional costs
(4) While I have no doubt you have the energy and motivation, you must also be prepared to lose all. After all, thousands have started before you and have failed.

Not that I am bursting your bubble, but you really need to consider it very carefully.

[Shark.]

Yep , all very valid points.

I've decided to go about it less now , maybe it isn't a wise choice.

I have doubts i will obtain a licence at my age, maybe not even a VISA.

I think the idea would be based around music though, myself , i love music .. ranging through lots of types of genre , also my taste isn't " popular" .. meaning not from the music charts like most clubs/bars... Still really good music.

So my idea was to base it around that , e.g a big screen that shoots the music video , plenty of seating etc , pool tables.... the sort of place that is nice to hang out , not just to get drunk.

I am also familiar with what alcohol i would need etc.

[curiousgeorge]

Yep , all very valid points.



I have doubts i will obtain a licence at my age, maybe not even a VISA.
You need a Visa? You mean you are not PR or citizen? Then for a business like this you will need EntrePass, but if you look at the MOM website it says "examples of businesses that will not be considered for EntrePass include...bars, nightclubs. http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... fault.aspx

I think the idea would be based around music though, myself , i love music .. ranging through lots of types of genre , also my taste isn't " popular" .. meaning not from the music charts like most clubs/bars... Still really good music
If you are doing a 'music concept' like Hard Rock Cafe then that needs to be your focus...even those concept bars that exist have a hard time...how will you ever be successful if your taste isn't popular?!

So my idea was to base it around that , e.g a big screen that shoots the music video , plenty of seating etc , pool tables.... the sort of place that is nice to hang out , not just to get drunk.
People "hanging out" don't make money. Spend what, $1 on pool every 20 mins?! For a business to succeed you need either high turnover of pple, or high spending pple. Not scabby students lounging around making one bottle of beer last for four hours.

Wow, another bar with music videos...many $$$ for licensing of the music videos...must pay COMPASS, must pay RIPS, must pay PEL...must pay pay pay to get this kind of venutre off the ground.

Nothing you have suggested is very original, its all been done (and failed) before. Sorry my friend, this isn't a business idea, this is a pipe dream.

I am also familiar with what alcohol i would need etc.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I am also familiar with what alcohol i would need etc.

Yep, from the posts you have made thus far, I'd say you are tooo familiar with what alcohol you would need.

[Shark.]

Yeah , obviously i havn't given it much detail atall , just a few thoughts , thats why i started this thread.

And agree that it isn't what i want , it's what brings customers in ... and SMS .. cheap shot !

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yep. But we tend to do that when the opportunity presents itself.

[lighter1]

if you have enough capital, get a rooftop bar. That is much more popular for working class now.

Is better for you to buy over or invest into others bar when you dont know a lot of things. Or else when you face any problem, you wont know how to slove it and you also dont have the contacts for many things.

think about it carefully, really cost a bomb and takes a long time to recover your capital.

[jaheer]

Some of the replies above are valid,,,you need to give them a serious thinking..

There are few areas you need to do plenty of homework b4 you start this business...

1)A detail business plan (how/what you are going to do?)
2)Business strategies (how do you build and grow your business?)
3)Legal aspects (can and not / do and don'ts)
4)Finances ($$ for investment, how do u secure? how do you diversify?)
5)Competitions (How do you circumvent /marriage/ avoid? )
6)Contacts (It is a relationship business...how many COIs you know of help and can spread your business around?)

The list can go on and on....If you are new to business/investment world, do not put all your eggs in one basket.Instead learn to diversify.

Good luck and best wishes

[sundaymorningstaple]

tic...toc...tic...toc....

[aster]

So what do you think?

Have you decided to open a bar? Just curious as I'm up for helping out by dropping by for a beer. Happy hour all night by just mentioning "SingaporeExpats.com", right?