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Need Advice!!- Change Job while just got the EP for 1 week

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e4teens
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Need Advice!!- Change Job while just got the EP for 1 week

Postby e4teens » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 5:09 pm

Hi Expats:

I have encountered a difficult situation that I wish to get some advice from you guys.

Here is the situation:

I have got the job around early last year 2010 under EP, however, after 3 months of probation time, I left them as the job nature was not suitable for me. My EP was cancelled after that, then recently, I finally found a job, and they have accepted the offer, with EP application done. (Received the Approval in Principle letter.AIP ). However, one of the company that I had an interview before finally decided to offer me a job as well, with better rank and higher Pay, and now I feel the new offer is more attractive, so I am thinking of changing to them.

But, I am not sure with my situation, what should I do with my EP application? as I just got it around 1 week with my current employer, and if I wish to change to the new employer, what should be the procedure?

Can I request the new employer to process my EP application first while I still hold the EP under my current employer, until I got the AIP from my new employer then I can inform my current employer for the resignation?

Will the record of my short stay with the previous 2 employers effects the new EP application?

I sincerely hope that I can get some advice from those who got the experience like this before.

Thank you

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Postby revhappy » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 7:07 pm

As you have already accepted the offer with the employer, you need to worry about what the severance terms would be. Your employer might ask you to pay the notice period amount upfront or may be more. It could get very rough.

Its not fun playing musical chairs when you are in foreign soil. Remember a bird in hand is better than 2 in bush? You might end up neither here nor there or get "run out" as they say in cricket, if you know what cricket is.

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Postby e4teens » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 7:37 pm

Hi revhappy:

Thank you for the reply. What you said indeed has the point, and I will definitely watch out for that possibility.

No one likes to change job, it is just the role and offer that I was truly interested in has come too late while I have been in and out of country many times after the first EP got cancelled. :)

Once again, thank you for the reminder.

regards

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Postby 30rocks » Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:38 pm

Interesting topic. I am on EP p2 for a month now , and also got one company interested in me and intend to offer me a role, but I am not sure if I can accept or not? I only need to notify my current employer 1 week in advance according to the agreement, but I also want to make sure that if I can let the new employer to apply the EP for me first then inform the current employer once i got the AIP letter from the new employer?

anyone got some insight on that?

:D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 05 Jan 2011 11:59 pm

Regardless of what your contract might say, according to IRAS, you must notify your employer 1 month in advance if you are going to quit. This is the law and they do not have to remit your EP/WP/S pass until such time as your Tax Clearance (IR-21) has been filed and has been cleared. If you do a dodge there, you are screwed in Singapore. Full Stop. You can be blacklisted and rightly so.

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Postby 30rocks » Fri, 07 Jan 2011 4:27 pm

Hi sms:

Thanks for the insight. indeed necessary to think twice before doing this. thank you.

but how about if after 8 months or 1 year? if I wish to change the job, what should be the procedure? should I resign, then let the current Employer to cancel my EP then apply again through new employer? or can I let new Employer to apply the EP for me first while I still hold EP under the current employer?

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Postby carlsum1986 » Fri, 07 Jan 2011 4:30 pm

30rocks wrote:Hi sms:

Thanks for the insight. indeed necessary to think twice before doing this. thank you.

but how about if after 8 months or 1 year? if I wish to change the job, what should be the procedure? should I resign, then let the current Employer to cancel my EP then apply again through new employer? or can I let new Employer to apply the EP for me first while I still hold EP under the current employer?


yes I would like to know the procedure to your above situation since I may be considering changing jobs

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 07 Jan 2011 7:09 pm

In all cases, a foreigner must give 1 month's notice (minimum) as far as IRAS is concerned.

This means, effectively, anybody who is on any type of work visa including a Work Permit if said individual earned more than 20K/year. S, !, P2, P1 & PEP's earn from a minimum of 21,600/years up so all must file tax clearance if their gross income for the year is in excess of 20K. For partial year tax clearance if you earned more than 20K the previous year, your employer still has to file the IR-21.

If the IR-21 if filed manually it can take up to a month to be processed. If it is filed online, in will be done in 15 days or less (normally 8-12 days so far this year), but the employer is required to file the tax clearance ONE MONTH before the departure of said employee. Additionally, as soon as you give your notice, your employer is required BY LAW to withhold any and all salary until such time as tax clearance is given. This sucks if you give tender your resignation a couple of days before payday if you are on a monthly payroll, as the employer is required to withhold the currently due payroll as well as the last payroll until given the clearance by IRAS. So make damned sure you turn in your resignation AFTER your payroll has been confirmed as being deposited into your bank account!

The employer has to pay the taxes due and deduct said taxes from your withheld salaries & benefits. Then the balance of salaries and any other remuneration can be remitted. Woe be the employer who does not do this. Minimum fine of $1000 per instance for the employer.

Another reason for the one month notice is to give the employee ample time to clear his bank accounts, Power/Water supply, Cable/Internet, telecoms and other facilities that require notice as well.

sms

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 07 Jan 2011 7:16 pm

30rocks

If you are leaving your employer anyway, apply for the new job and EP before giving notice. But obviously this will have to be okay with your NEW employer. This is not always do-able as new employers tend to always want you to start yesterday! :? So, if the job is worth it, and you don't mind gambling, resign with proper notice and have the new employer apply for the IPA and pray to all your gods that you get the new IPA without any hassles before your old job notice runs out! :)

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Postby Grumpy77 » Fri, 07 Jan 2011 7:39 pm

I'll tell you - as a foreign boss, running an office here, I toss most CV's that have the 'odour' of job-hopping, locals do it a lot and for sure any foreigner that has jumped from job to job will not even get a glance from me.

It takes 6-12 months before a new employee starts paying back for the on-boarding and training put in. Why would I look at someone that doesn't show any inclination to allow my company to get a good return?

I'm not alone on this, all my 'boss-type' friends agree, it takes a stunning CV to get an interview if there is a succession of short-time jobs on it. No long-tenure in the past will mean that I'll just be going through a re-hire soon, so why bother - I'll just keep looking now!

Take care with your history, it will follow you forever!

Good luck.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:24 pm

^^^^^^

+1

I always look at CV's with short job duration with great suspicion. Either can't complete or no loyalty at all. Either way, it's a red flag.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 07 Jan 2011 11:40 pm

As a former recruiter on this island, fully 80% of the local CV's I used to get, never made it past the circular file or delete button for the same reasons. For that matter, most of the CV's from Asian neighbours found their way to the same file for the same reason. Singapore doesn't have a corner of the market I'm sad to say.

The only exceptions I make there are if they are working construction or O&G construction. And, I suspect, SE makes the same exceptions as well for senior level Project Managers. :wink:

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Postby 30rocks » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 11:47 pm

Hi sms, and se, and Grumpy77:

Thank you for the insight information, it is useful and will be careful on all the consequence.

I also understand the concern regarding to the short duration of the employment, but it is my humble opinion that it is not fair hold such prejudice on those who has shorter working duration unless you actually hear the reason behind, since, I have seen some were working on yearly contract basis, and did not extend further, some of them were because the company simply closed down, or got laid off due to their financially difficulties.

In my case, I gave up a good job from my own country for a job here in SG that they promised for international exposure and will allow me to handle challenging assignment. However, after almost 2 months passed, I am the only one got no job at all in the team. It is hard to feel easy to be the only one who got no assignment at all while your team mates are all very occupied. I indeed request for the job assignment, even my line manager felt my situation, and request it on my behalf, but somehow the management person is not willing to assign.

I don't know what's the reason behind, maybe the management person changes his mind of this employment and want to push me out or...? but similar as Grumpy77's opinion that if it takes 6 - 12 months to actually see the value of a employee, so, how can they reach this conclusion about me by only 1 month?

I like to work in Singapore, as much as I like this country, therefore, I really want to make sure the proper way to change job, and also as secure as possible :D

SMS
Regarding to your instruction, does it mean that, if the new employer is ok with it, I can request the new employer to apply EP for me first and hand in the resignation and serve notice with the current employer ONLY AFTER I make sure that I got the new EP approved with the new employer?

and once noticed is served with the current employer, old EP card will be returned, then go receive the new EP card with the new IAP letter issued by the new employer?

Thank you all, :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 12:25 am

30rocks wrote:Hi sms, and se, and Grumpy77:

Thank you for the insight information, it is useful and will be careful on all the consequence.

I also understand the concern regarding to the short duration of the employment, but it is my humble opinion that it is not fair hold such prejudice on those who has shorter working duration unless you actually hear the reason behind, since, I have seen some were working on yearly contract basis, and did not extend further, some of them were because the company simply closed down, or got laid off due to their financially difficulties.

In my case, I gave up a good job from my own country for a job here in SG that they promised for international exposure and will allow me to handle challenging assignment. However, after almost 2 months passed, I am the only one got no job at all in the team. It is hard to feel easy to be the only one who got no assignment at all while your team mates are all very occupied. I indeed request for the job assignment, even my line manager felt my situation, and request it on my behalf, but somehow the management person is not willing to assign.

I don't know what's the reason behind, maybe the management person changes his mind of this employment and want to push me out or...? but similar as Grumpy77's opinion that if it takes 6 - 12 months to actually see the value of a employee, so, how can they reach this conclusion about me by only 1 month?

So after two months, you expect them to have vetted you to the point that you just claimed should tak 6-12 months? Seems like you operate with two different sets of standards. Additionally, in your initial post you did not indicate that your employer was trying to get rid of you. Now you are. Which is it? If you works much the same way as you give us data, I might understand your current employer's reluctance to give you free rein.

I like to work in Singapore, as much as I like this country, therefore, I really want to make sure the proper way to change job, and also as secure as possible :D

SMS
Regarding to your instruction, does it mean that, if the new employer is ok with it, I can request the new employer to apply EP for me first and hand in the resignation and serve notice with the current employer ONLY AFTER I make sure that I got the new EP approved with the new employer?

and once noticed is served with the current employer, old EP card will be returned, then go receive the new EP card with the new IAP letter issued by the new employer?

Correct


Thank you all, :D

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Postby 30rocks » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 1:27 am

Hi SMS:

Thank you very much for the reply.

:)


I think you mis-understood my point regarding to the management person might want to get rid of me. That was only my assumption regarding to the possible reason why. My apology for the confusion.

I also would like to apologize for not giving enough detail regarding to my situation. Normally during the initial 3 months probation period, all of my team member told me that an assignment will be given as a pilot assignment, and allow us to get involved into the working style with clients. but so far I am the ONLY one who has not been granted such opportunity, and no one in my team, even line manager knows why. Everyday, I voluntarily help my colleagues to process their paper work, or reading related articles on internet, other than that, I am very free everyday.

Please understand that I am not having any double standard or against anyone, What I was trying to say was, if 6-12 months will be able to see the value of a employee, what kind of value can I demonstrate after the first 3 months of probation period? hence after 6 - 12 months?


Once again, thank you all very much for the insight, warning and suggestion, and it is really a pleasure to express my situation to someone who can give me a straight answer as you all.

:)


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