S Pass or Employment Pass with spent conviction in UK

[Possibility]

I am a British citizen with a conviction in 1999 for which I served a 100 hours community service. Under UK law, this conviction is considered spent and does not have to be decalred.

I have been working for alomost 10 years and I am currently doing my MBA and thinking of applying for jobs in Singapore.

A question that is always asked when applying for a working visa is “Have you ever been convicted in a court of law in any country?”

[ksl]

It doesn't pay to tell lies in Singapore that's for sure!

You have as much chance at succeeding as anyone else with a criminal record, don't worry about it, others managed to get EP without telling lies

[JR8]

There is no concept of a spent crime in Singapore, (but then again neither is there in the United States). So your record is just that in SGs eyes.

Contrary to what someone posted on another thread a week or so ago, as far as is knowable SG embassies do not carry out 'random criminal record checks in the country of origin on [everyday] applicants for visas'.

That said, honesty is going to be the best route. As you do not want to get on the wrong side of the SG authorities if you ever wish to visit or stay in the country.

[ecureilx]

There is no concept of a spent crime in Singapore, (but then again neither is there in the United States). So your record is just that in SGs eyes.

Contrary to what someone posted on another thread a week or so ago, as far as is knowable SG embassies do not carry out 'random criminal record checks in the country of origin on [everyday] applicants for visas'.

That said, honesty is going to be the best route. As you do not want to get on the wrong side of the SG authorities if you ever wish to visit or stay in the country.

well Said

[roberteric]

Nobody here knows what they're talking about. Online forums are the best place to get bad information.

Don't disclose your criminal record. There IS a concept of a "spent crime" in Singapore. And when a record is spent in Singapore, it's as if it never existed. I'm sure that if it's spent in the UK, it's spent in Singapore. In fact, Singapore is quite liberal with the list of crimes that can be spent – but that doesn't matter because the crime was committed in the UK, not Singapore.

Here is a guide on getting crimes spent in Singapore: http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/rscr/help.htm

Here is the relevant statute:
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/ ... =part&sl=1

If you read the statute, you'll see that "offenses" aren't even considered "crimes" unless you have to register the offense with the police. The list of "offenses" that have to be registered are all pretty serious (and some are gross, like bestiality). Read the schedules to the statute at the second link, above, to see which crimes have to be registered.

[JR8]

Nobody here knows what they're talking about.

On the forum in general, or just this topic?

Online forums are the best place to get bad information.

Thanks heavens then that you've arrived here, with your first post to boot. Everyone can feel reassured that you know what you're talking about.

Don't disclose your criminal record. There IS a concept of a "spent crime" in Singapore. And when a record is spent in Singapore, it's as if it never existed.

I was interested to see that this is true. +1 to you, new boy. Although it applies to what one might consider petty crime, by SG standards anyway. It certainly does not apply to the US. And I'd be interested to see the statute for 'spent records' in UK law. If you happen to have a link do pass it along, as this question re: records is also asked a great deal re: visiting the US on the Visa Waiver Scheme/ESTA

I'm sure that if it's spent in the UK, it's spent in Singapore.

How so? Are you suggesting that both countries have the same laws? Rather thin ice, no?

In fact, Singapore is quite liberal with the list of crimes that can be spent – but that doesn't matter because the crime was committed in the UK, not Singapore.

Well quite. How does Singapore law relate to crimes committed in the UK?

[ecureilx]

I was interested to see that this is true. +1 to you, new boy. Although it applies to what one might consider petty crime, by SG standards anyway. It certainly does not apply to the US. And I'd be interested to see the statute for 'spent records' in UK law. If you happen to have a link do pass it along, as this question re: records is also asked a great deal re: visiting the US on the Visa Waiver Scheme/ESTA

And I remember that recently Russell Brandt was refused entry in Japan, when he flew in with Katie Perry, due to his past record of 'possession ..'

Singapore has to be more lenient I guess After all, Singapore has only laws to hang those with drugs .. if convicted of trafficking ...





Coat, Hat Umbrella ..

[JR8]

I was interested to see that this is true. +1 to you, new boy. Although it applies to what one might consider petty crime, by SG standards anyway. It certainly does not apply to the US. And I'd be interested to see the statute for 'spent records' in UK law. If you happen to have a link do pass it along, as this question re: records is also asked a great deal re: visiting the US on the Visa Waiver Scheme/ESTA

And I remember that recently Russell Brandt was refused entry in Japan, when he flew in with Katie Perry, due to his past record of 'possession ..'

Singapore has to be more lenient I guess After all, Singapore has only laws to hang those with drugs .. if convicted of trafficking ...


Coat, Hat Umbrella ..

No it is a good point.

Thank heavens the UK doesn't wish to prosecute drugs crimes. Otherwise most celebs would have a record, and they'd never get to go to the US.

Perhaps our new visitor, the fount of all cast-iron legal-eagle wisdom, has an opinion on UK or indeed SGn convictions versus 'Moral turpitude' under US law?

[BillyB]

Nobody here knows what they're talking about. Online forums are the best place to get bad information.

Don't disclose your criminal record. There IS a concept of a "spent crime" in Singapore. And when a record is spent in Singapore, it's as if it never existed. I'm sure that if it's spent in the UK, it's spent in Singapore. In fact, Singapore is quite liberal with the list of crimes that can be spent – but that doesn't matter because the crime was committed in the UK, not Singapore.

Here is a guide on getting crimes spent in Singapore: http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/rscr/help.htm

Here is the relevant statute:
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/ ... =part&sl=1

If you read the statute, you'll see that "offenses" aren't even considered "crimes" unless you have to register the offense with the police. The list of "offenses" that have to be registered are all pretty serious (and some are gross, like bestiality). Read the schedules to the statute at the second link, above, to see which crimes have to be registered.

Read and understand the question on the visa form properly before you make stupid, misinformed comments that could potentially jeopardise someone's chance of employment. “Have you EVER been convicted in a court of law in ANY country?”

[Mad Scientist]

Nobody here knows what they're talking about. Online forums are the best place to get bad information.

What a load of rubbish ? Are you a lawyer in this country ?
OP is applying thru MOM. and the application states explicitly about conviction. Yeah, maybe he can get away with this on his application but what about renewal. Do you want him to look over his shoulder everytime this question pop up.
Even having dodgy and distant learning degrees can be prosecuted later in life.

OP read this

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic ... conviction

This person did based on our advise and he was welcome here

[JR8]

Hehehe... I was waiting for the legal-eagle to construct his own funeral pyre... but what the hell, stick it to him MS

[roberteric]

Well, I certainly sounded like a jerk. Sorry about that, but I guess the shoe fits.

I am a lawyer in Singapore; I'm qualified in New York, though, not Singapore. Nevertheless, I am familiar with Singapore and UK law to an extent. You should know, though, that my postings here cannot be construed as definitive legal advice because we do not have a client-lawyer relationship. I'm just trying to help people understand the law.

The UK Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, under which convictions can be spent, is here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/53.

Here are some explanatory notes because it is dense legislation:
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/Road_Traff ... enders_Act

Singapore law hews very close to UK law, except in political matters. (At all costs to citizens' "rights," the PAP has in place laws to ensure their continual grip on power.) My guess is that the concept of a "spent conviction" in Singapore is modeled on the UK concept because many, many laws in Singapore are modeled on UK laws.

If your conviction has been spent in the UK and has been deleted from your record, you are creating unnecessary hassles by disclosing it to MOM. It seems that records of crimes in the UK for which the sentence of community service is imposed are spent after 5 years and deleted after 10. If you wonder whether the record has been deleted (or whether it was ever centrally recorded in the first place), request from the UK a criminal background check. If you cannot see your conviction on there, then neither can MOM. There is not some secret database containing information about you that you don't have access to but MOM does. This isn't Oceania (from 1984). If your conviction has not been deleted, then seek the help of a local UK lawyer because it should have been deleted. If for whatever reason you were called into MOM to answer for not disclosing your conviction, just tell them it was spent and deleted, so you thought you had never "been convicted in a court of law." I can't imagine that situation materializing; I just can't see them going through that much work for such a minor issue.

If you still want to disclose, you'll probably get your EP as other forum participants have received EPs despite ancient drug convictions. Russell Brand was denied entry to Japan, but according to Wikipedia he has been arrested 12 times and most recently in 2010 for battery. Possession of drugs 12 years ago is hardly an equivalent rap sheet.
-----


My story is that I was convicted in the US in 2010 for trespassing and drunk and disorderly conduct after I went home to the wrong house after a night at the bars (yes, I struggle with alcoholism). My convictions are not spent. I disclosed them when I applied for my EP in 2011, and my EP was approved on the 7th day.

So, as you can see, I'm a jerk, alcoholic lawyer. Many lawyers are.

[BillyB]

Can say with 100% conviction that you know what you are talking about??

Singapore, in my opinion, is very meticulous in form filling and a stickler for minor details. The question clearly states what they are looking for - "have you ever been convicted in a court of law in any Country". If they wanted to skirt round facts, they would include small print and exceptions.

It's better to disclose exactly what the MOM require in the first instance, rather than have it bite you on the arse in the future.

[Mad Scientist]

If you are referring to this

The legal system of Singapore is based on the English common law system. Major areas of law – particularly administrative law, contract law, equity and trust law, property law and tort law – are largely judge-made, though certain aspects have now been modified to some extent by statutes. However, other areas of law, such as criminal law, company law and family law, are almost completely statutory in nature.

Apart from referring to relevant Singaporean cases, judges continue to refer to English case law where the issues pertain to a traditional common-law area of law, or involve the interpretation of Singaporean statutes based on English enactments or English statutes applicable in Singapore. These days, there is also a greater tendency to consider decisions of important Commonwealth jurisdictions such as Australia and Canada, particularly if they take a different approach from English law.

Certain Singapore statutes are not based on English enactments but on legislation from other jurisdictions. In such situations, court decisions from those jurisdictions on the original legislation are often examined. Thus, Indian law is sometimes consulted in the interpretation of the Evidence Act[1] and the Penal Code,[2] which were based on Indian statutes.

On the other hand, where the interpretation of the Constitution of Singapore is concerned, courts remain reluctant to take into account foreign legal materials on the basis that a constitution should primarily be interpreted within its own four walls rather than in the light of analogies from other jurisdictions; and because economic, political, social and other conditions in foreign countries are perceived to be different.

Certain laws such as the Internal Security Act[3] (which authorizes detention without trial in certain circumstances) and the Societies Act[4] (which regulates the formation of associations) that were enacted during British rule in Singapore remain in the statute book, and both corporal and capital punishment are still in use.

OR this

Rendering Criminal Records as Spent

5 A person who has a record that becomes spent is deemed to have no record of that conviction and need not disclose the record when asked about his criminal record. If asked whether he has a “criminal record”

[Blackbirdie]

Well, I certainly sounded like a jerk. Sorry about that, but I guess the shoe fits.

I am a lawyer in Singapore; I'm qualified in New York, though, not Singapore. Nevertheless, I am familiar with Singapore and UK law to an extent. You should know, though, that my postings here cannot be construed as definitive legal advice because we do not have a client-lawyer relationship. I'm just trying to help people understand the law.

The UK Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, under which convictions can be spent, is here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/53.

Here are some explanatory notes because it is dense legislation:
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/Road_Traff ... enders_Act

Singapore law hews very close to UK law, except in political matters. (At all costs to citizens' "rights," the PAP has in place laws to ensure their continual grip on power.) My guess is that the concept of a "spent conviction" in Singapore is modeled on the UK concept because many, many laws in Singapore are modeled on UK laws.

If your conviction has been spent in the UK and has been deleted from your record, you are creating unnecessary hassles by disclosing it to MOM. It seems that records of crimes in the UK for which the sentence of community service is imposed are spent after 5 years and deleted after 10. If you wonder whether the record has been deleted (or whether it was ever centrally recorded in the first place), request from the UK a criminal background check. If you cannot see your conviction on there, then neither can MOM. There is not some secret database containing information about you that you don't have access to but MOM does. This isn't Oceania (from 1984). If your conviction has not been deleted, then seek the help of a local UK lawyer because it should have been deleted. If for whatever reason you were called into MOM to answer for not disclosing your conviction, just tell them it was spent and deleted, so you thought you had never "been convicted in a court of law." I can't imagine that situation materializing; I just can't see them going through that much work for such a minor issue.

If you still want to disclose, you'll probably get your EP as other forum participants have received EPs despite ancient drug convictions. Russell Brand was denied entry to Japan, but according to Wikipedia he has been arrested 12 times and most recently in 2010 for battery. Possession of drugs 12 years ago is hardly an equivalent rap sheet.
-----


My story is that I was convicted in the US in 2010 for trespassing and drunk and disorderly conduct after I went home to the wrong house after a night at the bars (yes, I struggle with alcoholism). My convictions are not spent. I disclosed them when I applied for my EP in 2011, and my EP was approved on the 7th day.

So, as you can see, I'm a jerk, alcoholic lawyer. Many lawyers are.

Hi, I don't know will u help me by giving me advice.
I would like to ask is, about 9years back, I was put in prison due to possession of drugs for 6months+, back then I was 20 only. Would like to know, am I considered with a criminal record? Am I allow to check on my own background with the police?
I'm planning to move on to aussie or UK, am thinking will I have any issues in applying a visa? Will the police clearance certificate shows what type of crimes that we have committed? Or they will just show, 'have criminal record'?
Hope you can advise. cos so far I've checked spf webby, its like we cannot anyhow to ask for Police clearance certificate.