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Drink driving

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ecureilx
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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 20 May 2011 1:29 pm

bgd wrote:
InTheBlue wrote:There aren't many traffic police and very few, if any, random checks.


That's been my observation as well, however I have come across quite a number of expats who have been caught. TP must lurk somewhere.


The expats are not aware of Singapore's traffic ops .. they cops will hide at expressway exits, and occasionally, block the whole expressway, so you got nowhere to hide ..

And often, wait in plain sight at the exit of ST James .. and Clark quay .. when you are out of the car park, you can do nothing other than to go towards them ..

Not rocket science man .. :D :D

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Postby BillyB » Fri, 20 May 2011 1:49 pm

ecureilx wrote:
bgd wrote:
InTheBlue wrote:There aren't many traffic police and very few, if any, random checks.


That's been my observation as well, however I have come across quite a number of expats who have been caught. TP must lurk somewhere.


The expats are not aware of Singapore's traffic ops .. they cops will hide at expressway exits, and occasionally, block the whole expressway, so you got nowhere to hide ..

And often, wait in plain sight at the exit of ST James .. and Clark quay .. when you are out of the car park, you can do nothing other than to go towards them ..

Not rocket science man .. :D :D


I'll have a rant on this topic:

Drink driving is a disgrace, especially when you lose someone close to you from some p*ssed up idiot who takes the law into their own hands. It's happened to my family and my girlfriends family. And usually it's to save a few $ on a taxi ride home or parking charges.

I'd personally throw the book at people who get caught and make it a 'proper' offense that sits on your record and employers are aware of rather than some 'traffic offense' that can be palmed off as a mistake.

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Old topic but new info

Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 20 Aug 2012 4:59 pm

I've recently been dealing with employees who have Australian DUI's on their record - we can't get them into the US for training (or Canada). In the case of the USA it comes under their general catch all moral turpitude clause - the Australian govt definitely shares info with the USA as well so if the OP is wondering 'Will Singapore disclose my DUI to another country, particularly the USA, when I'm applying for a visa even though a DUI is not a criminal offense' - the answer - IMHO - is tilting towards probably yes and it will impact your visa application. (A year ago I'd have said no but IRL experience has shown this not to be the case now).

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Postby bloodhound123 » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 6:47 pm

Hi ohhshoreoildude- I read that under US immigration laws, a DUI/DWI doesnt come under the "crime involving moral turpitude" and is not grounds for visa ineligiblity. However a DUI involving aggravated circumstances/consequences like accident/injury, resisting arrest, misdeamenour with the cops etc would come under "crime involving moral turpitude".

Were the subjects that you were dealing had any such added charges? Or did these DUI charges involved high levels of alcohol to put them under "crime involving moral turpitude" bucket? I am just wondering because I know a few ppl who had their US visa approved recently( in the last 10 months or so) with DUI convictions.

Also I heard that if the offence is very recent ( within the last 1 year of the visa application) waiver would not be applied and visa would be rejected right away by the Visa Officer.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 9:15 pm

bloodhound123 wrote:Hi ohhshoreoildude- I read that under US immigration laws, a DUI/DWI doesnt come under the "crime involving moral turpitude" and is not grounds for visa ineligiblity. However a DUI involving aggravated circumstances/consequences like accident/injury, resisting arrest, misdeamenour with the cops etc would come under "crime involving moral turpitude".

Were the subjects that you were dealing had any such added charges? Or did these DUI charges involved high levels of alcohol to put them under "crime involving moral turpitude" bucket? I am just wondering because I know a few ppl who had their US visa approved recently( in the last 10 months or so) with DUI convictions.

Also I heard that if the offence is very recent ( within the last 1 year of the visa application) waiver would not be applied and visa would be rejected right away by the Visa Officer.


The DUI's I'm familiar with were pretty standard. Normal DUI's of 0.8 or something. We couldn't get a visa for the guy.

All I know is that it adds complications to the point where it's often not worth hiring someone with a DUI if you plan to send them to Canada or the USA for work or training purposes - the law and the enforcement is too variable (I was OSOD).

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Postby bloodhound123 » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 9:39 pm

Doesnt character references from community members/community service help alleviate the case? These actions sort of portray the decreased likelihood of someone commiting this crime again in US/Canada ? I know that the visa approval is highly dependent on the visa officer and what he/she makes of the offence, but just wondering ???

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:25 pm

bloodhound123 wrote:Doesnt character references from community members/community service help alleviate the case? These actions sort of portray the decreased likelihood of someone commiting this crime again in US/Canada ? I know that the visa approval is highly dependent on the visa officer and what he/she makes of the offence, but just wondering ???


Not at the visa stage. Maybe at the sentencing stage.

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Postby bloodhound123 » Thu, 18 Jul 2013 2:36 pm

Thank you OSOD for sharing your experience dealing with ppl having DUI records.

I had a DUI in Singapore a few months back and there is nothing that a community service or a good character reference that can help at the sentencing stage. The DUI proceeding happens in a suborindate court along with hundreds of other traffic offenders - no license, insurance etc. And the sentence is given in less than a minute by the judge. I was only slightly over the limit and was given a fine, a licence disqualification + a warning and judge gave me the penalty within a few seconds.

I informed MOM immediately and they came back to me acknowledging my declaration and said they would not require any documents now and that they would need to be furnished only in the even of a new application. I informed ICA too as I had applied for PR last year and they too said the same thing. I know my PR is going to get rejected for sure owing to this.

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Postby PNGMK » Fri, 19 Jul 2013 3:29 am

bloodhound123 wrote:Thank you OSOD for sharing your experience dealing with ppl having DUI records.

I had a DUI in Singapore a few months back and there is nothing that a community service or a good character reference that can help at the sentencing stage. The DUI proceeding happens in a suborindate court along with hundreds of other traffic offenders - no license, insurance etc. And the sentence is given in less than a minute by the judge. I was only slightly over the limit and was given a fine, a licence disqualification + a warning and judge gave me the penalty within a few seconds.

I informed MOM immediately and they came back to me acknowledging my declaration and said they would not require any documents now and that they would need to be furnished only in the even of a new application. I informed ICA too as I had applied for PR last year and they too said the same thing. I know my PR is going to get rejected for sure owing to this.


I'd not assume that can't get PR or your work permit renewed. But let us know please. We also need some hard data on whether this affects visas for other countries and if you can share that in the future please do. Unfortunately people on forums try to talk the effect of DUI down (it's not a criminal offence etc) whereas I have seen real people really hurt their future life with a DUI - even a 20 year old one!

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Postby bloodhound123 » Fri, 19 Jul 2013 9:49 am

Sure. I will update everybody on my PR status and ep renewals in future. BTW DUI in Singapore is a criminal offense and you get fingerprinted at the police station.

From my limited search on web I found out that Canada is the only country which is extremely strict about DUIs. Their immigration law clearly states folks with DUI are criminally inadmissible to canada. US seems to be the next most stringent when it comes to this though their law states that DUI is not grounds to deny entry and I have read lots of other forums where people have been able to get into US with old DUis easily.

Are you referring to Canadian visa when it comes to 20year old DUI?

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Postby bloodhound123 » Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:13 am

Also you said Australia and Singapore share info about DUIs with USA. I am sure they do. Didn't the people that you were dealing with not declare this on the visa applications? If that's the case it is going to look really bad and could result in a permanent bar from entering US or Canada.

One perplexing question on the US visa form is the question is the "Crime involving moral turpitude". In the department of state document circulated among consular offices it states that drunk or reckless driving is not a crime involving moral turpitude. So wondering if folks answered no to that question. However in another circular it states that ppl with drunk driving records within the last 3 years should be referred to a psychiatrist to affirm that there is no harmful behavior that is likely to recur.

But as you mentioned the law and the enforcement is highly variable. Have read about lots of cases whose waivers were rejected if applying for one during their sentencing period ( license disqualification period ).

I know for sure that this is going to impact my future career.

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Postby PNGMK » Fri, 19 Jul 2013 2:19 pm

Bloodhound....

Canada is a problem for sure; you'e right. I've known people have their whole life plan of immigrating there derailed a month before because the hubby got done on a DUI.

The USA seems to be a problem if you self declare... and if you don't declare you're relying on your idea that DUI should not be a crime of moral turpitude and having a lot of time between the DUI and going into the USA is important for sure and then of course it really comes down to the actual border entry guy - even having a pre approved visa is not a guarantee.

The UK/Australia/Singapore etc seem to be a lot less strict.

Thanks for clarifying that you consider DUI in Singapore to be a criminal offence. I believe it is one in Australia as well but the reporting system (for criminal backgrounds) may not always show it.

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Postby bloodhound123 » Fri, 19 Jul 2013 3:12 pm

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail ... i-offenses

This link might be helpful. This is from the US customs and border patrol and is quite recent.

But as you said it is up to the discretion of the customs officer to give you entry permit. The 20 ur old DUI case looks quite surprising to me. Was it for US or Canada. With Canada I can understand, but with US I thought it should be ok as long as the guy is not a true alcoholic who has been drinking heavily for 1o to 20 years.

Singapore is a lot less stric when it come to single DUI offenses. After I got my DUI I spoke to the firm which handles work permits for my firm and they said that they have seen hundreds of DUI applications go through without any problem if it is a minor one - guess no prison term involved. It generally gets referred to ministry of home affairs and takes a few extra weeks of processing.

I read that the traffic law system mirrors the ones in UK/Australia. In Singapore it is a criminal offense and you get registered in the criminal database through fingerprinting. Why would it not show up in background checks?

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Postby PNGMK » Fri, 19 Jul 2013 3:33 pm

bloodhound123 wrote:https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/402/~/entering-the-u.s.-and-canada-with-dui-offenses

This link might be helpful. This is from the US customs and border patrol and is quite recent.

But as you said it is up to the discretion of the customs officer to give you entry permit. The 20 ur old DUI case looks quite surprising to me. Was it for US or Canada. With Canada I can understand, but with US I thought it should be ok as long as the guy is not a true alcoholic who has been drinking heavily for 1o to 20 years.

Singapore is a lot less stric when it come to single DUI offenses. After I got my DUI I spoke to the firm which handles work permits for my firm and they said that they have seen hundreds of DUI applications go through without any problem if it is a minor one - guess no prison term involved. It generally gets referred to ministry of home affairs and takes a few extra weeks of processing.

I read that the traffic law system mirrors the ones in UK/Australia. In Singapore it is a criminal offense and you get registered in the criminal database through fingerprinting. Why would it not show up in background checks?


Well thanks for that.

In Australia some offenses can be struck off or expire (it's complicated) so you can eventually have a clean criminal clearance cert.

The 20 year old case was Canada but I have another friend who has been worrying about this for the USA and your link is helpful.

Thanks for the intel from the law firm.

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Postby bloodhound123 » Fri, 19 Jul 2013 3:57 pm

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/foru ... al-issues/ - this is some famous immigration law firm in US and they have some good newsletters and posts which your friends might want to peruse through.

http://www.murthy.com/2012/10/01/dos-po ... g-records/

I have seen discussions on forums in UK and other countries that don't require a visa to visit US and a lot fo them do travel on the visa waiver program with DUI. However us embassy London clearly states that anyone with an arrest record should apply for a visa. I am getting a feeling that consular offices across the world and the us customs are not on the same page. This one is an interesting and an informative read

http://www.justanswer.com/immigration-l ... icted.html


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