The Most Rejected EP

[kimtaymour]

Hi Everyone,

My side of story is a very long one ... I am holding the best record in EP rejection and 2 appeal rejected but all these are like about exactly 2 years ago... then now in this year 2010 a new employer applied and the EP was rejected and by coincidence in my b'day!! 14-10 so again the same employer very much interested in me applied (thru EPOL) 2 months later and got rejected (rejection however are very fast like within 15 minute) ... how frustrating

Not sure what went wrong and what has been the unfortunate circumstances but now the employer is preparing the appeal and I wanna give it the best shot.

A friend of mine told me that appeal depends very much on the creativity of the employer and employee on what to submit and according to that MOM decides whether they grant the EP or not.

Can any one gives me any good idea of what should the employer submit for MOM when filing the appeal ??

Once its rejected (the appeal) what can be the next step is there like a 2nd appeal ? or meeting up the prosecutor judge (a certain title that a friend told me long long time ago can recall it)

Oh yea am trying to move from a main competitor company hope this point can help or make me stand out of the crowd...

Oh yea SMS knows my story VERY WELL !

Will appreciate any input in the soonest time possible and please shade some light on this Daaaaaaaaaaaaark path

many thx

[kimtaymour]

Oh yeah is the Job Description (JD) important to file it along ? or not that necessary ?

hope to see any reply people

[kimtaymour]

plz people some answers ...

[beppi]

Appealing for appeal's sake, i.e. without anything new that was not included in your original application, is a waste of time. You won't change the authorities mind by just saying "Look at it again, pleeeeeease!"
Since the rejections seem to be due to you, not the employer, it also makes no sense to let the employer write an appeal and include only new items from their side.
I guess the only thing you can do is trying to find out what the reason for the rejections is, e.g. by going to MOM personally and talking to the officer in charge. They are not obligated to tell you, but sometimes do.
Then you may be able to figure out how to change your application in a way that invalidates this reason.
If not, or if they don't tell you anything, it's probably time to look for greener pastures elsewhere. As disappointing as it may seem now, the Singapore authorities decide who can and who cannot work or live here!

[the lynx]

beppi may be right. Most of the time it is NOT about the employers but rather the potential employees.

I was made to understand that ICA and MOM actually run background checks on each applicant before giving principal approval for further processes. Did you run into any trouble with law especially with regards to immigration in Singapore or other countries prior to your application? That can actually put a black mark in your records.

Another proof that they run background checks lie in their selective exemption on certain applicants from prohibition to get married to Singaporean or PRs.

I may be right or wrong in this so please correcct me if I do.

But you should be prepared to try looking for greener pastures elsewhere - just in case. All the best, mate!

[Strong Eagle]

You leave out a lot of information.

a) What class of EP are you trying for? If P1 and above $7000, then it won't be your educational credentials, but if less, your degree needs to be from a recognized institution, and not done as a correspondence course.

b) Asking about being 'creative' and 'is a job description needed' send up big red flags for me. The employer needs to describe the job with enough precision to make it clear what your job duties will be AND they need to demonstrate why you, and not a local, is needed to fill the position. Frankly, it sounds like they want you for a run of the mill position and have no way to justify you.

c) If you were rejected in 15 minutes, then you or the company has been flagged as undesirable. Considering that you were rejected two years ago, and quickly rejected again, you are on the 'no fly' list as far as MOM is concerned.

As others have noted, there is no point in appealing unless there is a material change in circumstance... for you... new certifications, additional education, additional experience, something that makes you more desirable. For the company... a more precise job description, and a more precise reason why you are the person to fill it... maybe your CV doesn't support their assertions. Maybe the job description is so out of line with the money they are willing to pay MOM knows the whole thing is a joke.

As I said, there is a lot left unsaid in your questions. Do you have a criminal record? Previous immigration offenses? Undischarged indebtedness? Uni not on the approved list? What kind of job? What sort of a past employment history?

I could be wrong, and my guess is it will be a long time... if ever... that you get a pass.

[kimtaymour]

very good points Lynx and SE well I start:

I have no criminal record not in SG nor in any other country (I am currently wrkign out my Certificate of Good Conduct from the Malaysia ministry of foreign Affairs hope to get it ASAP)

The company that wants to hire me is a manufacturer so a big co. and good record am sure ... their main market is the middle est and africa if not to say their regular customers.

now my salary is 5000 SGD so I guess I'll go under the EP - P2 except if MOM have other thinking.

the job position is BDM (Business Development Manager)

for my education my degree is from Napier University - Edinburgh (anyone heard about it ?) its a B.Sc in Network Computing ... I did a Full Time study mode in a Malaysian University and the collaborating uni is NU.

Now the thing is I studied in Malaysia and that university did gave me a Degree too (i'll include it and pass it to MOM when I go to see the officer - that is if they accept). practically I got 2 Bachelor Degree!

So beside this I remain very much confused on the rejection and why is it to happen so fast. I doubt my education but not necessary.

for marrying a singaporean and PRs well its not in my mind now but who knows I may and I may not.


SE what do u mean the "no fly list ?"

Can a BDM get a 5000SGD or is it too much ?

Oh yeah in the EP application I considered the NU Degree awarded (Is that ok or I should have put the Malaysia's one? )

Also I just realised that the HR(very uncompetent sadly) wrote that duration of work with curent company till 14-10-10 which is wrong and am still working with it once my EP goes well then i'll quit. Now I am afraid MOM thinks am jobless since 14-10 (in fact that was my first rejection with the same co.) ... Is there a way to rectify it ? when we see them ?

I really doubt any local can speak all 3 language fluently (arabic,french, somalian) and German are they ? I bet no ! (not bragging but being realistic )

will they accept if i pass them my CV too ?

ur help is very much appreciated. many many THX !

[ksl]

My 2 cents would be, the rejection is based on your degree and the job application of Business Development Manager. I just cannot see for the life of me, how or where your experience comes in as a business development manager. Surely there are hundreds of Singaporeans that could take this position? So if you want to convince them, you need to be more specific in what you can deliver within that field of employment, that Singaporeans cannot. This maybe communication in a language that isn't common to Singaporeans on a business level, the target group of your audience look for something special that you can contribute within the business development field, maybe towards tourism to increase Tourism for example between Singapore and your home Country and the Countries in where you have specialised language skills. Get the Company to back you up based on your level of contacts you have within the Malaysian., Arabic and Somalian sector, this is what you need to sell them.

Though the biggest problem is how does a computer networking degree, make you into a skilled Business Development Manager? You may need to create a role for a computer networking developer, within the company for a specific task in the specialised areas you wish to approach with your language skills for the Company....use your imagination in what you can deliver over the next 3 to 5 years.....Will there be a connection between these Countries you can represent for Tourism or trading for example and where does networking development fit in to business management..

[kimtaymour]

KSL great advise !

But maybe i missed out to add this info ... I am currently working in Malaysia in a Company that does the same business (manufacturing & trading exporting prodcuts) ... somehow a competitor in fact a MAIN Competitor so can that give me a +1 when I see the MOM ?

Second my current position is Project & Business Development Assistant Manager for the last 2 years so there where my experience comes from to take the BDM Job

hope that can help as an added info

To me its a miracle that can make my EP go well

[ksl]

KSL great advise !

But maybe i missed out to add this info ... I am currently working in Malaysia in a Company that does the same business (manufacturing & trading exporting prodcuts) ... somehow a competitor in fact a MAIN Competitor so can that give me a +1 when I see the MOM ?

Second my current position is Project & Business Development Assistant Manager for the last 2 years so there where my experience comes from to take the BDM Job

hope that can help as an added info

To me its a miracle that can make my EP go well

It's the detailed explanation of your skill set, and experience, with your future goals and contributions to this Country, that will be evaluated, so you must sell your best experience to MOM and also back up your past experience. The languages are a plus, but your company needs to be clear on the direction they want you for. It must spell out to MOM that Singaporeans are in limited supply for the position on offer, and that you require the opportunity to deliver growth for this company, so that Singaporeans can be employed.

Is there any quota issue with the company on foreign employment?

You shouldn't apply until all your documentation is in order! With an alternative appeal ready by your company, they need to stress just how important it is, that they get your language skills, and progress of expansion will need to be supplied on EP renewal if they succeed in getting you in. Miracles are happening every day of the week, in this Country for many people!

[kimtaymour]

Is there any quota issue with the company on foreign employment?

You shouldn't apply until all your documentation is in order! With an alternative appeal ready by your company, they need to stress just how important it is, that they get your language skills, and progress of expansion will need to be supplied on EP renewal if they succeed in getting you in. Miracles are happening every day of the week, in this Country for many people!

About the quota I am not sure, but I have been told that for EP there is no quota so I don't have to worry about. Also I believe the company should not have any quota problem as its a BIG CO. again this is just my belief -

Personally i think if really there is a quota when applying to EP then the HR should have sort it out though I don't trust a but the competence/ability of their HR Dept.

If only one of the moderator can be their HR

The co have already applied for the Appeal and its in process now they have wrote a good letter and signed off by the GM. going to see the mom with a senior guy from the company hope it helps.

KSL a question

1) can I write a letter from my side explaining my thought and the futur contribution to Singapore and the Company ? or they won't entertain it ?

2) Can I tell them that when applying online at the emplyment part it has been written by the HR am with the current company till 14-10 and that is not the case and because I am still serving with them till date ?

3) When we meet them should I be given the right to speak will the mom officer take it into consideration ? or its straight gonna pass from right to left ear ? My idea was to tell that I got so much contacts and standby customersthat need manufacturer contact to order in tons and that can increase singapore's export tremendously

[ksl]

Question 1: I don't expect it will help, though it will not do any harm either providing it is short and to the point.

Question 2: Inform them in writing and hand it over, explaining HR left out those details.

Question 3: Again no harm in trying but keep it short and to the point, no theatrics.

Your HR should do the talking so let him explain what you need to say and let him hand over your short contribution you may get the opportunity to say a little. But keep it short and sweet.

I think SMS would have more idea than me on this point. There are no guarantees, and it all depends on the day, how convincing you are, that a Singaporean could not be found to take on the new projects, and i doubt there are many that can speak both Arabic and Somalian.

[kimtaymour]

Great matey !

I will write in a short letter and explain directly what I need to say. I may put in some real fact figure like monthly turnover and export (in Tons) and as what you've said its no harm trying so I 'm flipping over all of my cards at this point of time.

its not the HR who's coming rather its a senior manager in marketing since the GM can't come and make it so he appointed him. nwell that guy he better be loaded up and have his ammunitions lined up.

For Luck !