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Rising anti-foreigner sentiment

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 7:30 pm

x9200 wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:[..]and foreigners earning more than locals for the same job.

Why anybody would like to hire a foreingner (with statistically more hassle too) and pay her/him more for the same job!? :shock:
Don't shoot, I'm friendly :)


SMS.... time to pass the rod over man 8-)

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Postby donova.n » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 9:30 pm

good argument.
i just feel instead of hating us foreigners they should see it that we help bring jobs into the country. if tomorrow all of us were to return home, many companies will close operations then these pockets of locals will lose their jobs too. maybe the proportion of foreigners in the company maybe a little high, but it also gives employment to the locals in smaller numbers. if we go home, they can go home too. no need to hate.

@WiMH did i step on your toes? :(

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:20 pm

donova.n wrote:good argument.
i just feel instead of hating us foreigners they should see it that we help bring jobs into the country. if tomorrow all of us were to return home, many companies will close operations then these pockets of locals will lose their jobs too. maybe the proportion of foreigners in the company maybe a little high, but it also gives employment to the locals in smaller numbers. if we go home, they can go home too. no need to hate.

@WiMH did i step on your toes? :(


You sentiments are exactly the same as those expressed numerous times by the PM here as well as some other lesser political figures here. What you espouse is correct but as WIMH also states, it is perception in the eyes of the local heartlander that is causing the grief and it's also the heartlander that's gonna vote with his perceived thoughts/anger rather the the facts no matter how many times they are stated. With elections due soon, and I'm guessing within the next 4 to 5 months tops, the government is having it's hands full as they are afraid of the opposition gaining ground due to "perception".

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:36 pm

JayCee wrote:Let me ask you the same question - do you have any figures to back up your 'suspicion' that it's more than 7%?

Ok here we go... three sets of figures from four different sources:

- In Q4 2009, Singapore PRs bought 15% of private homes, and foreigners bought another 12% for a total of 27%.
- Of the 7374 private units sold in H1 2009, 2305 caveats were lodged by foreigners and PRs, comprising 31% of the total.
- In Q2 2010, foreigners and PRs accounted for 23.7% of the private market.

I guess it's safe to say that foreigners account for more than 7% of the private property market. The figure ranges from 24%-31%, ie a quarter to a third of the total. Are you saying that this has no impact on prices?

JayCee wrote:It's greedy Singaporeans who take out 5 mortgages to buy condos that they can rent to foreigners who are driving the prices up

Your turn to back up this assertion :wink:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:50 pm

donova.n wrote:i just feel instead of hating us foreigners they should see it that we help bring jobs into the country. if tomorrow all of us were to return home, many companies will close operations then these pockets of locals will lose their jobs too. maybe the proportion of foreigners in the company maybe a little high, but it also gives employment to the locals in smaller numbers. if we go home, they can go home too. no need to hate.

@WiMH did i step on your toes? :(

Donovan, many Singaporeans don't hate foreigners and welcome you for more than economic reasons, so please don't paint us all with the same brush. Personally I don't like foreigners who use local women for sex, that's all, and your "bedding their women" comment made you sound like one of these players. I hope I'm wrong.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:55 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:it is perception in the eyes of the local heartlander that is causing the grief and it's also the heartlander that's gonna vote with his perceived thoughts/anger rather the the facts no matter how many times they are stated.

SMS, I knew you would understand the importance of perception. At the same time the more I read on the private property market, the more convinced I am that foreigners driving up prices is not merely a perception but has basis in fact. I have no problem with this as it is a part and parcel of an open economy, but it's certainly fodder for the xenophobes.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 12:30 am

I should have quantified as I wasn't referring to the private market but the perception that foreigners (PR's) were driving up the HDB resale market, which is what the newspaper article was about.

There isn't a COV on the private market, but there is on the HDB market and 15% PR purchases isn't going to cause the rise and continued height of the current HDB market. Which, by the way, hasn't been affected at all by the curbing measures recently enacted by the powers that be. It's the PR's that the locals are up in arms against. It's the PR's that are taking a beating on the subsidy front and it's the would be PR's who are being rejected in droves. All because of fear on the part of the PAP.

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Postby donova.n » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 12:57 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
donova.n wrote:i just feel instead of hating us foreigners they should see it that we help bring jobs into the country. if tomorrow all of us were to return home, many companies will close operations then these pockets of locals will lose their jobs too. maybe the proportion of foreigners in the company maybe a little high, but it also gives employment to the locals in smaller numbers. if we go home, they can go home too. no need to hate.

@WiMH did i step on your toes? :(

Donovan, many Singaporeans don't hate foreigners and welcome you for more than economic reasons, so please don't paint us all with the same brush. Personally I don't like foreigners who use local women for sex, that's all, and your "bedding their women" comment made you sound like one of these players. I hope I'm wrong.


i wish i was as lucky as my peers but no i have a gf who i love and always try to coax into working in singapore with me (knowing how easy it is to get employment). sometimes if i feel the locals just want to hunt me with a pitch fork then i guess i would just take something sensitive and rub the salt in their wounds. thing is, we foreigners bring growth so please dont curse all of us. if we all go home, the country just collapses in an instant.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 1:13 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I should have quantified as I wasn't referring to the private market but the perception that foreigners (PR's) were driving up the HDB resale market, which is what the newspaper article was about.

There isn't a COV on the private market, but there is on the HDB market and 15% PR purchases isn't going to cause the rise and continued height of the current HDB market.

15% seems a low estimate. Figures on the HDB resale market:

- ERA which has 41% share of the HDB resale market estimates that 40% of buyers are PRs
- Propnex figures put 20% of buyers as PRs
- C&H Realty data shows that 50% of buyers are PRs

So market data suggests that PRs make up 20%-50% of the HDB resale market. Taking the average for the 3 agencies, PRs form 37% of the HDB resale market, more than one-third. Would you still say PRs have no impact on prices?

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 1:27 am

donova.n wrote:sometimes if i feel the locals just want to hunt me with a pitch fork then i guess i would just take something sensitive and rub the salt in their wounds. thing is, we foreigners bring growth so please dont curse all of us.

I know how you feel about being hunted with a pitch fork, since on this forum I sit on the wrong side of the fork. Thing is, we locals house, feed, transport and befriend you while you're here so please don't curse all of us either. Calling out specific incidents with individual idiots is fine, but damning the entire population with one broad stroke is not. This applies to both sides. Here's to world peace O:)

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 2:03 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
donova.n wrote:sometimes if i feel the locals just want to hunt me with a pitch fork then i guess i would just take something sensitive and rub the salt in their wounds. thing is, we foreigners bring growth so please dont curse all of us.

I know how you feel about being hunted with a pitch fork, since on this forum I sit on the wrong side of the fork. Thing is, we locals house, feed, transport and befriend you while you're here so please don't curse all of us either. Calling out specific incidents with individual idiots is fine, but damning the entire population with one broad stroke is not. This applies to both sides. Here's to world peace O:)


But then you are suggesting that characterising a behaviour is not acceptable. I disagree. There is a big difference between simply highlighting a national habit, and 'damning the entire population'. Unless you are a typically thin skinned Singaporean of course :wink:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 6:52 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:I should have quantified as I wasn't referring to the private market but the perception that foreigners (PR's) were driving up the HDB resale market, which is what the newspaper article was about.

There isn't a COV on the private market, but there is on the HDB market and 15% PR purchases isn't going to cause the rise and continued height of the current HDB market.

15% seems a low estimate. Figures on the HDB resale market:

- ERA which has 41% share of the HDB resale market estimates that 40% of buyers are PRs
- Propnex figures put 20% of buyers as PRs
- C&H Realty data shows that 50% of buyers are PRs

So market data suggests that PRs make up 20%-50% of the HDB resale market. Taking the average for the 3 agencies, PRs form 37% of the HDB resale market, more than one-third. Would you still say PRs have no impact on prices?


I wouldn't take anything quoted by a real estate firm as the gospel, would you? I even have my doubts about the info from Government agencies but I'd put more into the article as it was through either HDB or SingStat (wish I could find it and quote it). But if you wanna say 20 or 30 %, go ahead. We'll just have to agree to disagree. It's strange that 3 realtors come up with three different estimates. All are based only on their own sales I reckon.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 7:07 am

I find this discussion intriguing and fascinating. I think this FT issues goes beyond HDB or private housing. It has more to it that one can meet the eye.
I have sharing with you some collected from local papers and white papers.

(Quote removed due to copyright issues)

2.The goal is to maintain the population of Singapore, which for a long time stood between 3-4 million, it is rather likely that the public vitriol against the FT policy would be more subdued. It would take either a brave man or a soothsayer to conclude economic decline would as a result ensue, if Singapore’s population stabilizes around the circa 4 million figure. Even the example used by MM Lee in his speech on Japan’s falling population and the future impact on its economy was instructive – it was based on a dire economic situation in Japan contingent on a declining population, not a stable one.

3.http://singapore2025.files.wordpress.co ... 08/mmb.jpg

4.Debate and concerns of many Singaporeans have arguably moved beyond those covered by the ST report’s ambit. In fact, MM Lee hinted at this himself, although these were not expatiated upon in the aforementioned ST article. After reporting that the total fertility rate (TFR) was 1.91, 1.19 and 1.14 for the Malay, Indian and Chinese communities respectively, MM Lee was quoted as saying, “If we continue this way without the new immigrants and PRs and their children doing national service, the composition of the Singapore Armed Forces [SAF] will change. So please remember that.”
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 7:47 am

re: 6.
That's why Harry has a personal guard of gurkhas issit? Can't trust his own countrymen?

How strange.

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Postby longstebe » Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:29 am

@WiMH did i step on your toes? :([/quote]
Donovan, many Singaporeans don't hate foreigners and welcome you for more than economic reasons, so please don't paint us all with the same brush. Personally I don't like foreigners who use local women for sex, that's all, and your "bedding their women" comment made you sound like one of these players. I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

WIMH, just out of interest, can you elaborate on your comment about the foreigners using local women for sex.


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