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Rising anti-foreigner sentiment

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 3:17 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:How are resale prices determined? By the going price. When the most expensive HDB in Singapore is bought by an Indonesian paying
close to $1 million, what do you think that does to prices across the board?



No, it determined by the asking price. Most Singaporean are not selling at fire sales where they would have to take whatever they can get. Most are opportunists so set their prices very high. Eventually somebody will pay the price.

One Indonesian buying is not going to affect the entire market, neither will 15% foreign buyer, which is more like the max that the government claims are foreign buyers, about a month ago in the local birdcage liner. If 17 out of 20 buyers are local and the price is high. Then it would appear that the locals themselves are doing the ramping up of prices.

I would agree, however, that it is foreigners that drive up the private housing rental market. Companies here, both local and MNC, bring in foreigners and they have to have a place to stay. Again, too often we see local owners who have just sat on their condos empty for months on end in order to hold out for a higher amount - usually a corporate lease. The auction like tactics of the local real estate brokers in conjunction with the owners doesn't help matters either. If there were honour among thieves, it would be a different story.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 3:25 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:[..]and foreigners earning more than locals for the same job.

Why anybody would like to hire a foreingner (with statistically more hassle too) and pay her/him more for the same job!? :shock:
Don't shoot, I'm friendly :)

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Postby ksl » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 3:47 pm

Many local HDB owners have been abusing the HDB rules for subletting! NEW PAPER yesterday.

Yesterdays New Paper ! HDB's have been rented out illegally, it appears mainland Chinese have been renting HDB's and subletting bedrooms, with bunk beds at 200$ per bed.

These Chinese have contracts on more than one HDB, and can make over 1000$ a month in subletting, some have 3 or 4 HDB's on contract and sublet not rooms but bunk beds, making it a high profit activity.

HDB Rules that are legal:

You must meet a 3 to 5 year minimum occupation period, depending on whether or not the flat is subsidised, and when the flat was purchased.

You must obtain HDB approval

As a flat owner subletting your flat, you will be responsible, among other things, for making sure there is no overcrowding.

ON RENTING OUT ROOMS:

You are allowed to sublet your bedrooms if you own a 3 room or bigger flat.
No prior approval from HDB is required
But from Feb 1st 2010, flat owners must register with HDB within 7 days of subletting the rooms.
Max number of bedrooms allowed for subletting and max number of occupants allowedd in each flat.
3 Room Flat: 1 bedroom 6 people
4 Room Flat or bigger: 2 bedroom 9 people

WOW I have 3 bedroom that says over 12 people legally, that's 2400$ a month in legal rental money.

Penalties for illegal subletting:
HDB may impose a penalty or take back the flat.

Interesting article showing HDB have in fact taken back many flats.

Surely this kind of behaviour will push up prices in the HDB sector.

I know some locals living behind me, in high rise sold off at 480K to purchase a condo at 600K

I think HDB rules that show you can sublet rooms will push up HDB prices has those HDB's with rooms available can generating legal income. There are over 800k HDB's and it's very difficult to enforce these rules, if the people are friends which are visiting...Some are shift workers so when the HDB's are raided fewer occupants are in the flats.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 4:29 pm

x9200 wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:[..]and foreigners earning more than locals for the same job.

Why anybody would like to hire a foreigner (with statistically more hassle too) and pay her/him more for the same job!? :shock:
Don't shoot, I'm friendly :)
It's the quality and experience of the worker that matters, in the 2k plus commission range of employment the ability to converse in English and Chinese is a must, unless you are targeting a specific race like Arabic or Malay. Chinese being the majority language. No company would be prepared to lose a talented skilled person, so i'm sure Singaporean or Foreigner, doesn't really matter, it's what you can bring to the company that matters.

Singaporeans generally refuse to meet the targets and still expect to be kept on the payroll, they don't want to work weekends, and they don't want to be flexible that is due mostly because they cannot achive targets set and they know it, so they was given the chance because of giving false information at interview.

Companies can get foreign workers for 1.2K though they cannot speak English and have difficulty finding there way around, they work 12 hrs a day 6 days a week but they can be intelligent and think for themselves.

It is imperative that the lower paid Singaporean is allowed to upgrade their skills, at the companies expense, with the help of government subsidies...My belief in what WIMH is trying to achieve in teaching logical approach to problem solving is in fact a major necessity in the unskilled market, the actual experience of using logic is lacking.

Companies will pay for a talented workforce, so a foreigner with commonsense approach to doing his daily task, is worth every penny

The cost of living is really shooting up in Singapore and I do support the local Singaporean in the right for job training.....Only they themselves need to participate to improve their chances of job security. I very often have to pass on SOP's to all drivers, to reduce the cost of maintenance and accidents, as they all believe its okay to run an amber traffic light. Th e amount of driver accidents have a direct cost on our insurance premiums.

Definitely more logical thinking and commonsense approaches, is very important. I feel the unskilled labour market has been totally neglected here, which pushes the youth into rebellion and crime. It would be very interesting to see the size of this unskilled workforce, I'm sure it is very significant when it comes to voting
Last edited by ksl on Fri, 10 Dec 2010 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 4:31 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:How are resale prices determined? By the going price.

No, it determined by the asking price.

Wrong. A transaction does not take place until there is a willing buyer as well as seller. You can ask any price you want but if nobody will buy, no transaction takes place. The going price, ie the last transacted price, is the market value.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:One Indonesian buying is not going to affect the entire market

Yes, but we are talking about perceptions here. These are the transactions that make headlines and form the man in the street's perceptions. Like it or not you have to deal with Singaporeans' perceptions of foreigners, just as we have to deal with foreigners' perceptions of Singapreans, rightly or wrongly.

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Postby donova.n » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 4:39 pm

the locals just want to find fault with us foreigners even if it has nothing to do with us. i mean look its evident that we come here solely to work. not many come with their families in fact many of us come here alone. am i going to buy a 4 room hdb? why the hell would i!

i come here alone, i work here alone hence it makes money sense to rent a room or a small apartment.

these locals are just sore im having a cushy job instead of them and that im bedding their women and they're not.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 5:32 pm

Ksl, so this is NOT the same job.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 5:34 pm

The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 5:42 pm

x9200 wrote:Why anybody would like to hire a foreingner (with statistically more hassle too) and pay her/him more for the same job!? :shock:
Don't shoot, I'm friendly :)

Friendly X-man, personally I don't think companies are cost-dumb enough to pay an expat more for the same job a local could do. But expats are the ones creating this perception. From another thread on this forum:

Artemias wrote:I know Indian/Filipino expats who earn more than the locals do though(same job). :wink:


Source: ftopic60292-0-asc-60.html

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 6:15 pm

donova.n wrote:these locals are just sore im having a cushy job instead of them and that im bedding their women and they're not.

Damn, i was starting to like you Donovan.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 6:29 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:Friendly X-man, personally I don't think companies are cost-dumb enough to pay an expat more for the same job a local could do. But expats are the ones creating this perception. From another thread on this forum:

The perception is created by some narrow-minded people not by the expact. A bit difficult to blame somebody for performing better on the same position.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 6:36 pm

x9200 wrote:WIMH, your new avatar seems to violate SE's IP rights :)




LOL :D

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Postby ksl » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 6:40 pm

x9200 wrote:Ksl, so this is NOT the same job.
Two different discussions on at the same time is a little confusing, one on property prices rises the other on local sentiment.

I tend to agree with WIMH that perception is key! Todays New Paper shows headlines of Huge Man Attacks tiny woman, The Caucasian man is already the target of the press, it appears the press is instigating trouble if you ask me and ignoring the facts of what was going on. Even though the Caucasian isn't arrested, he is judged for apprehending a suspect pickpocket, who tried to steal his mobile phone from his pocket.

This is not the first or last case of selling news papers at the cost of foreigners V's Singaporeans rather a political time bomb, but who's at fault really?
Ksl, so this is NOT the same job.
Not sure I quite understand!

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 6:48 pm

ksl wrote:
Ksl, so this is NOT the same job.
Not sure I quite understand!

The position is the same but the performance is different so the person paid better probably does a better job.
Yes, this is all about perception.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 7:14 pm

donova.n wrote:the locals just want to find fault with us foreigners even if it has nothing to do with us. i mean look its evident that we come here solely to work. not many come with their families in fact many of us come here alone. am i going to buy a 4 room hdb? why the hell would i!

For the fact I think you are wrong. Many come with the families. Many to settle down here. Objectively there is nothing wrong with this as the gahment supposingly controls it.


i come here alone, i work here alone hence it makes money sense to rent a room or a small apartment.

these locals are just sore im having a cushy job instead of them and that im bedding their women and they're not.

Acting a bit schizophrenic on my side: Put yourself in their shoes. This is their country and they probably don't understand what makes FT better paid and even if they do it is not really a comfortable feeling to be actually sacrificed for far fetched economy benefits of your nation. Sorry Jason but judging from what you wrote above you would probably be as sore as they are in similar situation.


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