Maid wants to go to Malaysia on her day off

[ecureilx]

PS: You didn't answer my feeble question: do you have a maid ??

You didn't ask me, you asked someone else.

Oops .. sorry

In general though what you describe is most revealing. Thank heavens maids have you to act as their advocate, they are truly blessed.

Nah - I am probably cursed for speaking out my mind and laying the facts ... and I always remind anybody who listens: No sir, they are not to be treated like animals, or treat them shoddy, but somewhere you need to draw the line as it is your interests that will be affected if xxx hits the fan .. And if that sounds cruel - you are better off not having a maid

Yes, and if you cant manage your affairs, and need 'help' to manage your 'domestic help' - better off you don't need a domestic help ..

Maybe a thread drift, but some other forum, I saw employers complain about the maid - and some of them were 'she eats so much rice', 'she needs a weekend off - why does she need a weekend off ?', 'she seems she likes to dress up - I am worried', 'she keeps smiling at our neighbours - I am worried' and so and so .. just to prove that i am not a Cold Hearted Steven, my answer to those also was the same - the problem is not with the maid, the problem is with the employer who doesn't know how to manage with a maid, and better off with being "maid-less" and same went for a colleague who said he is fitting CCTV all over the house to monitor his maid, as he said he is terrified that the maid, with nothing to do at home as the husband and wife are at work - will engage in illegal stuff .. my simple suggestion to have just one cam at the door to monitor entry and exit didn't hold water and when I went on to tell him - probably he doesn't need maid - well, yes, I now have one less friend who is mad at me not sympathizing with him ..

And I hope I didn't touch anybody's raw nerves by being direct ..

[nakatago]

Where did maidinsingapore go? She'd have the best POV in this matter.

[Seasoul]

I didn't know you could hold the maid's passport in Singapore or that it was even a practice. That's what was done in Morocco in the 80s, so the next person who tells me SG is a first world country, I'll know how much to laugh.

Didn't know neither that you were liable and responsible for the maid's whereabouts and activities even on her day off so thanks Ecurail for that - and don;t worry about offending people or whatever, this is a forum, it's meant to host controversy

I think a lot of expats, especially families, hire a maid for the whole week, and I can understand that in that case she is under their responsibility even when they are overseas if she is considered working that day. But I would think on her day off she can do whatever she wants and that wouldn't be the employer's responsibility ?

[sundaymorningstaple]

As you are the maid's (foreign worker) employer (!) you sign a sponsorship letter that confirms that you will be responsible for said foreign worker as long as employed by you. This also mean, like any employer, you are responsible for her welfare and well being and are responsible for her actions while in Singapore (which includes off days as well - just like any/all Work Permit holders). You are also held responsible if she does a runner, gets pregnant, and most anything else. (by law) However, you are also NOT allowed to hold their passports. (by law) But by practice this is normally done as there are numerous cases of employers being done by FDW's. There are probably as many cases of FDW's stealing, getting pregnant, running off, etc. as there are cases of FDW's being abused by errant employers.

[ecureilx]

I didn't know you could hold the maid's passport in Singapore or that it was even a practice. That's what was done in Morocco in the 80s, so the next person who tells me SG is a first world country, I'll know how much to laugh.

No - it is not about being a first world or third world. Unfortunately, not many of the people who come here have the same civic responsibility and people jumping ship, escaping, or plain simply engaging is quite prevalent here - considering this is the most wealthiest country - and if you think rationally, and if you observe the number of people being filtered at the checkpoints, and people caught for overstaying, I would not agree with the measures, but you can't blame those measures ..

Didn't know neither that you were liable and responsible for the maid's whereabouts and activities even on her day off so thanks Ecurail for that - and don;t worry about offending people or whatever, this is a forum, it's meant to host controversy

Well, not many people have common sense or look at things as you and a lot here .. most people get to tend to emotionally cloud their thinking

I think a lot of expats, especially families, hire a maid for the whole week, and I can understand that in that case she is under their responsibility even when they are overseas if she is considered working that day. But I would think on her day off she can do whatever she wants and that wouldn't be the employer's responsibility ?

Well, I too am one of those who would prefer to give a day off for maids, instead of making them work for all 7 days .. and the law says they are entitled to a day off.

Well, the smart employers do something else - they privately negotiate with the maid that, in lieu of the off days, and give them an annual paid vacation back home - rather then being perpetually stressed about the maid being out on her off day, and whether she is with good company or bad company, or has a bf and getting into trouble.

Just to add quickly, there are enough maids who take vocational training on their off days, volunteer for church activities, and some forego their off day in lieu of extra pay .. and those you see on Sunday into other activities are a minority ..

As I said - it is not the employer's problem as to what she does on her off day - but then again, the employer is held ransom by the MOM if the maid gets into any trouble - so - as a prudent employer, while stopping short of electronically tagging the maid - atleast employers worry perpetually as to what their maid's do on their of days .. And a walk down town on Sunday to some popular bars will enlighten your view, when you see them really letting themselves loose .. (and am quick to point out that I am not against them letting their hair loose .. everybody has their own way of relaxing - for some a beer and dance does it .. )

Life isn't fair I guess, but .. comparing to the conditions faced by maids and labourers and such blue collar workers - as compared to the rest of the region .. then again I could be wrong ..

As for the law that you are not allowed to hold the passport - I am not sure - maybe I need to check with my agency friends, to clarify that ..

[poodlek]

As I said - it is not the employer's problem as to what she does on her off day - but then again, the employer is held ransom by the MOM if the maid gets into any trouble - so - as a prudent employer, while stopping short of electronically tagging the maid - atleast employers worry perpetually as to what their maid's do on their of days .. And a walk down town on Sunday to some popular bars will enlighten your view, when you see them really letting themselves loose .. (and am quick to point out that I am not against them letting their hair loose .. everybody has their own way of relaxing - for some a beer and dance does it .. )

Just to play devil's advocate...it seems to me if the maid is the type of person likely to get into trouble (the sort of trouble for which the MOM would hold the employer responsible), she could find it easily enough without leaving the country. Surely there are enough virile young men here willing to exploit and/or get a girl in trouble? I don't see that holding her passport will prevent this from happening. Isn't it better just to thoroughly vet the maid's credentials and history before signing off on her sponsorship?

[ecureilx]

Isn't it better just to thoroughly vet the maid's credentials and history before signing off on her sponsorship?

Which doen't work always, and, not just maids, any body in a foreign country tends to get easily corrupted ..

Well, there is a school of thought that transfer maids are better, as they have prior experience, and have been here, and the other school of thought goes - avoid transfer maids, as most likely they have created some mess and hence they are looking for a transfer. And 9 out of 10 employers are loath to reveal to the next employer details or specifics as to why the maid is seeking a transfer ..

No sir- I am not with any agency Just been sucking up these info ..

And for holding passport, well, that gives one less thing to worry about - as not majorly, but commonly, since Malaysia is an attractive option for suitors, they tend to propose a 'holiday' in Malaysia .. and .. with a passport, the maid can also easily get into some trading activity - like buying / selling SIM Cards / phones .. as these require the passport with the Work Pass ..

Again - I am not painting all maids as messy - but I am being the devil's advocate .. (did I steal your words ?? )

[poodlek]

Isn't it better just to thoroughly vet the maid's credentials and history before signing off on her sponsorship?

Which doen't work always, and, not just maids, any body in a foreign country tends to get easily corrupted ..

Well, there is a school of thought that transfer maids are better, as they have prior experience, and have been here, and the other school of thought goes - avoid transfer maids, as most likely they have created some mess and hence they are looking for a transfer. And 9 out of 10 employers are loath to reveal to the next employer details or specifics as to why the maid is seeking a transfer ..

No sir- I am not with any agency Just been sucking up these info ..

And for holding passport, well, that gives one less thing to worry about - as not majorly, but commonly, since Malaysia is an attractive option for suitors, they tend to propose a 'holiday' in Malaysia .. and .. with a passport, the maid can also easily get into some trading activity - like buying / selling SIM Cards / phones .. as these require the passport with the Work Pass ..

Again - I am not painting all maids as messy - but I am being the devil's advocate .. (did I steal your words ?? )

It seems like there's a risk either way--let the maid get herself into trouble, or get yourself into trouble by holding her passport. In the instance of the OP, however, if she's married to a Malaysian, is she that high of a risk? Perhaps to get pregnant...but that could have easily been assessed before hiring her. I wouldn't think it fair for an employer to hold a passport to mandate whether a married woman can visit with her husband.

[ecureilx]

OP, however, if she's married to a Malaysian, is she that high of a risk? Perhaps to get pregnant...but that could have easily been assessed before hiring her. I wouldn't think it fair for an employer to hold a passport to mandate whether a married woman can visit with her husband.

Well, since I am in an jovial mood, let me barge in with something :

For a start, I don't believe she is married to a Malaysian, then again, I don't know her - and my comments are from some people, who call living together as married - I don't want to go there .. And I don't know MOM's view on Maids marrying Malaysians, while working here, while MOM doesn't encourage the maids to marry Singaporeans

And if she is really married as she claims, to a Malaysian, she should be let off to be with her husband or find another employer - yah, you are right - it is unfair to hold the passport, and the 'Final Solution' - (no relation to "die Endlösung der Judenfrage" ) is to let her find an employer who understands her .. No - that's not a harsh statement but reality sucks .. Yeah ???

I was comparing to a colleague of mine, who had a habit of flying back to Malaysia - KL every weekend, and used to miss the Monday morning meetings - and when she asked the VP to show some compassion - he did show her a lot of compassion and cut her pay off and told her, she need not work on Monday Mornings After all, we are to work, and if the work doesnt' suit our lifestyle, suck it up or leave That's my motto ..

cheers (and I hope and pray that I didn't come off as a heartless bastard .. )

[JR8]

So if the employer is responsible for what the employee does, if the maid kills the employers spouse it's the employer's fault?

No that can't be right.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yeah, that's right, after her release from prison, he'll have to pay for her repatriation!

[JR8]

Yeah, that's right, after her release from prison, he'll have to pay for her repatriation!

Ah but there is a difference between paying for repatriation and being held responsible (and doing time)

[ecureilx]

Yeah, that's right, after her release from prison, he'll have to pay for her repatriation!

No sir - me thinks you are wrong !!!

If the maid is caught for being pregnant, or contracts some 'sickness', it is the employer who has to repatriate her back to her country, and until then, if the maid decides to engage in some moonlighting, or (touch wood) tries to hurt herself - then the medical expenses and her flight is c/o the employer and the employer can't engage another maid until he clears this current maid.

As for superior crimes, such as .. the example mentioned before, or even lesser offences, the Republic of Singapore 'provides' such services FOC - and don't worry - by then - the maid will be a star back home and with a lot of sympathy, some Knight in Shining Armour will sponsor her a flight ticket, and then upon arrival donate some land .. and what not And in jest, some maids have said committing the 'right' offense and pleading that they were setup or conned can actually make them rich enough - atleast it happened in most cases as back home, they are told that they are being exploited in Foreign countries .. and the crime they commit is acceptable and justified .. ..

Disclaimer - don't quote me or take it as Gospel !! Above is what I unofficially heard in the grapevine .. and not picking on any specific country ..

[sundaymorningstaple]

Unfortunately, I didn't have a smilie for :being facetious:

[ecureilx]

Unfortunately, I didn't have a smilie for :being facetious:

Maybe my comments went overboard, but I always have a tough time balancing those who are desperate to get to Singapore, and then complain that Singapore is a country of slave-traders

Why Singapore ?? Why not Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia ..

PS: Exxxtraaaa smileys added to emphasise that it is an off-the-cuff comment