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baba_ali
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Post by baba_ali » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 9:20 pm

JR8 wrote:
baba_ali wrote: Over 10k? Wow ... Most Singaporeans would be very "glad" to know this.
Meaning what? I was remunerated over $10k a month, despite having no qualifications back in the early 90's, when that was a shedload of money for a young guy. Your govt gave me a visa. Do you have a problem with that? Why do you think I got paid so much to do something that no local could even approach doing? QED no?


So lets put it clearly , you have never been with average Singaporeans. Am I right to say that? Oh and your group of people , how much is the average salary? Can I guess they are above national average?

Ad hominem.... yawn!

So you been living in Singapore and mixing with a bunch of people who are paid more and think differently?

Yawn

Oh and when you speak about "they" you mean the govt , not the people. Trust me , nobody around my age , 25-30 , here is happy

Why do you stay then, you know where the airport is.


Oh and also are your friends educated in Singapore? I can almost safely guess they are oversea educated.

Strawman, Ad hom, yawn yawn...
First , I am also a foreigner , so its not my govt.

Second , why are you here too if Singapore is such a shitty place for you? I am having a conversation with the lady and you bumped in and showoff how great you were being paid 10k and ask Singaporeans to f.u.c.k.o.f.f if they don't like their own country.

If thats the way people here see Singapore as then I have nothing to add here. I came here to tell my point of view. You can ignore it if you want to but there is no need to flame people. We discuss ideas , not people.

Sorry but if you guys are not opened to conversation then I guess you guys deserve the hatred most people here have about westerners.

My apology to the lady I was having conversation. I am not sure you like what I said but at least you replied in civilised manner , unlike your friend.

Unlike Arnold , I won't be back.

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poodlek
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Post by poodlek » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 9:22 pm

baba_ali wrote:
Over 10k? Wow ... Most Singaporeans would be very "glad" to know this. So lets put it clearly , you have never been with average Singaporeans. Am I right to say that? Oh and your group of people , how much is the average salary? Can I guess they are above national average?

So you been living in Singapore and mixing with a bunch of people who are paid more and think differently? It would be like me go over to India and stay at 1 billion dollar house from Reliance Tech Boss. 99% of people there are below poverty.

I would like to ask , request , that you really mix with the local crowd , not foreigners from China. You may not like them. But at least you know what "is" Singapore and who are the people known as Singaporeans. You are not with them now.

Oh and when you speak about "they" you mean the govt , not the people. Trust me , nobody around my age , 25-30 , here is happy about public housing going over half a million but salaries still in 1980s, except for old people who bought them at 20/30k. We all can't get married in peace.

Oh and also are your friends educated in Singapore? I can almost safely guess they are oversea educated.
My friends are Singapore educated, as far as I know, Chinese Malaysians. I do not know their salaries, as it is not considered a polite question to ask amongst us ang mohs. :wink: I do know they live in an average (three bedroom) HDB flat and have a single average (Honda minivan) car. They have two kids with special needs and one foreign helper. The man once referred to being on the brink of bankruptcy about four years ago. That is as much as I know about their finances and status.

On an average day, I eat alone at a hawker centre when my husband is at work. I spend a fair amount of time observing locals, although not mingling with them per se. I do enjoy talking to the folks that work at the local Starbucks, as with my own persistent friendliness mixed with what I know about the "corporate culture" they're hammering home behind the scenes there I have managed to get them to open up to me. These guys certainly aren't high rollers, and they don't really have a wide perspective of life. They often ask me how I like Singapore and what life and Starbucks are like in Canada, but I know when they get that glazed look in their eyes that they don't always "get" it. I think they see me as some sort of curious anomaly in life. Perhaps I am :-D Anyway I think I have some experience with understanding Singaporeans, although I would not claim myself to be an expert.

What I meant about "they" was not the government. Obviously the government wants to change (or appear to be doing something about the problem of rudeness) or else they wouldn't bother investing money and time into a "courtesy campaign". Or those goofy pubic service reminders on the MRT. What I meant is, if the all the average joes wanted the rudeness to go away, they wouldn't mutter and complain under their breath when they noticed it, they'd stand up and say something. Case in point: in Canada, littering is not a big problem. The reason, IMO, is not because there are fines for it (although there are fines threatened, I've never heard of anyone being cited), it's because more often than not, if someone is witnessed littering, another citizen will pick up their litter and hand it back to them, and scold them. I've seen it been done several times. Also it is seen as a civic minded and virtuous thing to keep our country clean. And there are garbage cans every 10 feet so there's really no excuse (a bit of an exaggeration). Here you have foreign workers to pick up after you, so you don't need to bother. Littering is literally someone else's problem.

People here are not willing to confront the issue of rudeness, and the rudeness is always seen as someone else's problem. I've seen mothers forcing their children to do "kiasu" type rude things, but I'm sure the same mother would complain if someone did it to her--she wouldn't see that the problem begins at home. This is why it will persist.

We are still talking about rudeness, right? Not HDB being expensive? I don't see what that has to do with anything.

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Post by JR8 » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 9:46 pm

baba_ali wrote: First , I am also a foreigner , so its not my govt.

Oh, but you are tub-thumping for them, and SGs citizens aren't you? you're like what we used to call a PAP-bot back in the formative years of the web. A hysterical, but none too bright, young thing sent on a transparent mission to put down any criticism of SG by foreigners.

Second , why are you here too if Singapore is such a shitty place for you?

Hahahahaha 8-) Because I'm a geographic butterfly. 'I come take your money, den I take your women oso' 8-)


I am having a conversation with the lady and you bumped in and showoff how great you were being paid 10k and ask Singaporeans to f.u.c.k.o.f.f if they don't like their own country.

It's a forum, get over it or leave. Also note outright vulgarity is unlikely to be tolerated here.

If thats the way people here see Singapore as then I have nothing to add here. I came here to tell my point of view. You can ignore it if you want to but there is no need to flame people. We discuss ideas , not people.


Haha, yet you flame people for joining the debate and then personally attack posters, rather than the points they are making.


Sorry but if you guys are not opened to conversation then I guess you guys deserve the hatred most people here have about westerners.

Oh issit? 8-) I love it, show me your 'hatred face' man, no I said show me your hatred face man. Go on! :lol:
My apology to the lady I was having conversation. I am not sure you like what I said but at least you replied in civilised manner , unlike your friend.

Haven't worked out how a public forum works eh? No wonder you have low level quals and hate westerners ah?


Unlike Arnold , I won't be back.

Pass the Kleenex

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Post by poodlek » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:30 pm

baba_ali wrote:
JR8 wrote:
baba_ali wrote: Over 10k? Wow ... Most Singaporeans would be very "glad" to know this.
Meaning what? I was remunerated over $10k a month, despite having no qualifications back in the early 90's, when that was a shedload of money for a young guy. Your govt gave me a visa. Do you have a problem with that? Why do you think I got paid so much to do something that no local could even approach doing? QED no?


So lets put it clearly , you have never been with average Singaporeans. Am I right to say that? Oh and your group of people , how much is the average salary? Can I guess they are above national average?

Ad hominem.... yawn!

So you been living in Singapore and mixing with a bunch of people who are paid more and think differently?

Yawn

Oh and when you speak about "they" you mean the govt , not the people. Trust me , nobody around my age , 25-30 , here is happy

Why do you stay then, you know where the airport is.


Oh and also are your friends educated in Singapore? I can almost safely guess they are oversea educated.

Strawman, Ad hom, yawn yawn...
First , I am also a foreigner , so its not my govt.

Second , why are you here too if Singapore is such a shitty place for you? I am having a conversation with the lady and you bumped in and showoff how great you were being paid 10k and ask Singaporeans to f.u.c.k.o.f.f if they don't like their own country.

If thats the way people here see Singapore as then I have nothing to add here. I came here to tell my point of view. You can ignore it if you want to but there is no need to flame people. We discuss ideas , not people.

Sorry but if you guys are not opened to conversation then I guess you guys deserve the hatred most people here have about westerners.

My apology to the lady I was having conversation. I am not sure you like what I said but at least you replied in civilised manner , unlike your friend.

Unlike Arnold , I won't be back.
It's interesting to me that you think I wouldn't like what you said. I don't like or dislike anything you said, and if I did, why should it make a difference to you? If you are speaking from your own personal truth, meaning no offense, then you should assume that none will be taken. I am not Asian so I do not need to save face in a discussion ;-)

Unless you did mean to cause offense with something you said...?
(like perhaps the comment about locals reaction to my husband's salary?? If locals don't like it they can get themselves educated and take my husband's job from him. If they can't get the education here, then go overseas and do it. My husband is far from top of his field...he's just willing to go to a foreign country that's willing to pay him top dollar to come here. Whose fault is that?)

And if someone causes you offense, why not just ignore him? This is an open forum so people will say what they will. You can choose to reply to me and not him--it is your choice. Running away doesn't further understanding for anyone. Don't blame him for ending the conversation.

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Post by aargon » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:45 pm

poodlek wrote: My husband is far from top of his field...he's just willing to go to a foreign country that's willing to pay him top dollar to come here. .
10K a month isnt exactly what i call top dollar. Now if your husband was earning over 20K a month, that would be a different opinion all together. :wink:

People are rude everywhere. I just find Singaporeans irritatingly rude. Its almost like their ignorant of their behaviour. The young, the old, the educated, uneducated, the rich, the poor - its pretty much everyone. Back home, its an arrogant type of rude, exhibited mainly by the young kids. The elders, the well educated all know basic manners. The youth however, are likely to pop a knife into you if you confronted them on manners. Not worth the risk.

All in all, Singapore is a good place to live. I mean if manners is all we have to complain about - as oppose to getting mugged, murdered or raped, then I think Singaporeans have nothing to worry about.

ok lah?
Everybody was KungFu Fighting.....

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Post by poodlek » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:00 pm

aargon wrote:
poodlek wrote: My husband is far from top of his field...he's just willing to go to a foreign country that's willing to pay him top dollar to come here. .
10K a month isnt exactly what i call top dollar. Now if your husband was earning over 20K a month, that would be a different opinion all together. :wink:

People are rude everywhere. I just find Singaporeans irritatingly rude. Its almost like their ignorant of their behaviour. The young, the old, the educated, uneducated, the rich, the poor - its pretty much everyone. Back home, its an arrogant type of rude, exhibited mainly by the young kids. The elders, the well educated all know basic manners. The youth however, are likely to pop a knife into you if you confronted them on manners. Not worth the risk.

All in all, Singapore is a good place to live. I mean if manners is all we have to complain about - as oppose to getting mugged, murdered or raped, then I think Singaporeans have nothing to worry about.

ok lah?
Top dollar is of course subjective--there's always someone who makes more than you, but $10k per month is definitely top dollar in his field for the type of work he's doing. It's twice the going rate in the USA. For that luxury this early in our lives, we're willing to take the good with the bad. Anyway it wasn't meant as a brag, it was meant (I think, it's been so many posts since I mentioned it) to point out that despite wanting to seem efficient and good business managers etc, Singaporeans will make poor judgement calls and way overspend on certain things simply because they don't know any better, and didn't bother to find out. Not that I'm going to be the one to tell them :-P

Agreed on all other points.

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Post by aargon » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:16 pm

what is he? an english teacher? I`m curious now! :D
Everybody was KungFu Fighting.....

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Post by poodlek » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:20 pm

aargon wrote:what is he? an english teacher? I`m curious now! :D
LOL I'll never say (publicly) as he's the only one in Singapore and I've slandered his employers on this forum too many times.

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Post by JR8 » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:25 pm

Quite, and I wasn't suggesting $10k is anything big either. It and my job were nothing within the scheme of things... there were and are people there for which that wouldn't pay a fraction of their rent alone.

My curiosity was more why 'SGns will be glad to hear that'. I.e. coming here to find sour grapes, then finding them, them being bitter.

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Post by ev-disinfection » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:43 pm

Technical job, no training / school here that teaches it, huge marketing budget.....
hmmmm.... project management for some new expensive product??

Hey Poodlek,
Wanna have coffee at starbucks? I am a local, born, bred and studied here in SG... so that when the next hurricane baba blows through, you can say that you HAVE mixed with the locals....lol

JR8, many locals feel threatened by expats coming here to take away our jobs and girls, but my thinking is that expats are here to do the job that we do not have the talent for, be it the oil rigs / offshore jobs, corporate CEO or the people who are hired to clean Singapore up, and i would say that 70% of the girls that the expats fall in love and settle down with, have a lot of baggage already... lol

I love SG, cause it works but is not perfect... but then ...where is?

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Post by poodlek » Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:58 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Technical job, no training / school here that teaches it, huge marketing budget.....
hmmmm.... project management for some new expensive product??

That's not entirely inaccurate.

Hey Poodlek,
Wanna have coffee at starbucks? I am a local, born, bred and studied here in SG... so that when the next hurricane baba blows through, you can say that you HAVE mixed with the locals....lol

You can find me most late afternoons at the sbux at Harbourfront. I'm the white chick who looks (or maybe only feels?) like she's been gestating for about 11 months.

I love SG, cause it works but is not perfect... but then ...where is?

CANADA :-P

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Post by JR8 » Wed, 05 Jan 2011 12:00 am

ev-disinfection wrote:Technical job, no training / school here that teaches it, huge marketing budget.....
hmmmm.... project management for some new expensive product??

Hey Poodlek,
Wanna have coffee at starbucks? I am a local, born, bred and studied here in SG... so that when the next hurricane baba blows through, you can say that you HAVE mixed with the locals....lol

JR8, many locals feel threatened by expats coming here to take away our jobs and girls, but my thinking is that expats are here to do the job that we do not have the talent for, be it the oil rigs / offshore jobs, corporate CEO or the people who are hired to clean Singapore up, and i would say that 70% of the girls that the expats fall in love and settle down with, have a lot of baggage already... lol

I love SG, cause it works but is not perfect... but then ...where is?
Hahaha :)
Yeah I get that locals feel threatened by FT, but then are they not just denying reality? Sour grapes? It reminds me of the popular masses who begrudge bankers who work in the City of London earning 'millions'. So shallow, on so many levels, they expect free bank accounts, credit cards, totally flexible mortgages but then detest the guys at the top who facilitate all of this for them.

Wah careful what you say about local girls that fall in love with expats, my missus has a wardrobe full of Kate Spade handbags that she'd happily lodge in your mouth for less ! :)

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Post by ev-disinfection » Wed, 05 Jan 2011 12:13 am

JR8 wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:Technical job, no training / school here that teaches it, huge marketing budget.....
hmmmm.... project management for some new expensive product??

Hey Poodlek,
Wanna have coffee at starbucks? I am a local, born, bred and studied here in SG... so that when the next hurricane baba blows through, you can say that you HAVE mixed with the locals....lol

JR8, many locals feel threatened by expats coming here to take away our jobs and girls, but my thinking is that expats are here to do the job that we do not have the talent for, be it the oil rigs / offshore jobs, corporate CEO or the people who are hired to clean Singapore up, and i would say that 70% of the girls that the expats fall in love and settle down with, have a lot of baggage already... lol

I love SG, cause it works but is not perfect... but then ...where is?
Hahaha :)
Yeah I get that locals feel threatened by FT, but then are they not just denying reality? Sour grapes? It reminds me of the popular masses who begrudge bankers who work in the City of London earning 'millions'. So shallow, on so many levels, they expect free bank accounts, credit cards, totally flexible mortgages but then detest the guys at the top who facilitate all of this for them.

Wah careful what you say about local girls that fall in love with expats, my missus has a wardrobe full of Kate Spade handbags that she'd happily lodge in your mouth for less ! :)
If i were a banker during the days... i would have gotten the whole bankers association, and made a statement saying that all bankers will cut their pay in half and find a solution to the crisis and paid the press off to just report that statement..... the bankers would have gotten away for the crisis... lol

Your missus is part of the 30 %... hmmmm, but how should i explain about the baggage.... lol

Hey guys, i feel that we should arrange to meet for coffee / drinks, play pool or something..... What do you guys think?

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Post by JR8 » Wed, 05 Jan 2011 12:28 am

Or go down the pub and ...


Party on Wayne, party on Garth!

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Post by longstebe » Wed, 05 Jan 2011 5:30 am

poodlek wrote: . My husband is far from top of his field...he's just willing to go to a foreign country that's willing to pay him top dollar to come here. Whose fault is that?)
.
Oh yes, I like this one.

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