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UK Tier 1 visa - flawed

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UK Tier 1 visa - flawed

Postby revhappy » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 3:06 pm

Although this shouldn't probably come here, I found this very intriguing and hence thought of posting it here.

I had a look at the UK Tier 1 visa(was earlier known as HSMP) points calculator system.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply ... t#23127617

You need 80 points to get through and I was shocked when I noticed that I got only 75 points.

The reason is the number of points of previous earnings. They have a multiplier system for each country band where the previous earnings were made. Funnily Singapore falls in the same band as UK and hence the multiplier is 1. Whereas India falls in a band with countries like Zambia and Zimbabwe :shock: and the multiplier is 5.3

My salary in India was half of what I am making here, but with a multiplier of 5 times I easily qualify.

Is that a big loop hole? Now I know why so many Indians find it very easy to go to the UK.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 4:53 pm

Oh please don't get me started on UK :roll: :lol: Its been flawed for 200 years at least. :wink: You should be smiling. Just don't get entangled in the system and you will have a good happy life.

It's a paradise holiday for terrorists, they can never be found....they the government have to wait for them to leave the Country first, to prevent them getting back in. That is true! because the whole UK system doesn't work, you can virtually disappear

You don't even have to inform anyone you move from one city to another, how crazy is that? There is no tracking system at all, unless they have implemented it since i left.

Most of the government agencies are subcontracted out, it's a big disaster, you have difficulty communicating with a telephone, if they refuse to talk to you, that means if you raise your voice, they put the phone down. Now look at me, you have got me all worked up! You haven't been talking to SMS by any chance :P :roll: I have to take deep breaths now.

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Postby revhappy » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 5:41 pm

Sorry about that KSL :wink:

I just couldnt help posting it because the other day I was complaining on some thread that the previous earnings requirement for PEP visa is 7k SGD/month and that is constant without taking into account which country that earning is from, which I felt wasn't smart.

When I saw that UK have this country classification, I was quite happy but then after looking at how the countries were classified I was totally shocked I mean you dont need to be PHD from London School of Economics to see that the classification is totally crap.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 6:26 pm

revhappy wrote:Sorry about that KSL :wink:

I just couldn't help posting it because the other day I was complaining on some thread that the previous earnings requirement for PEP visa is 7k SGD/month and that is constant without taking into account which country that earning is from, which I felt wasn't smart.

When I saw that UK have this country classification, I was quite happy but then after looking at how the countries were classified I was totally shocked I mean you dont need to be PHD from London School of Economics to see that the classification is totally crap.


No worries really, I've given up on UK long ago, though it's my Country and a beautiful place. What makes England is the richness of its Culture and heritage from all races, that was the true words of my mother, god bless her....

I think Singapore and the 7k a month is just a number out of the blue, anyone that can earn 7k a month, doesn't really need an education which isn't quite true....

My point is that legal registered Companies, doing illegal money laundering in all Countries can document an employees earnings of 7k, which opens the doors in Singapore to more illegal activities.

Not much thought went into the planning or screening processes, the clever cyber criminals, and ex KGB agents have infiltrated many Countries.

The UK well organised crime rings are big time in slavery and prostitution which the UK had very little of before, it gets worse, with the larger expansion of Europe, yet bad planning has allowed these things to happen.

Singapore does it's best on the experience it has, it needs to be very careful of subversion, I would hate to see Singapore fall into the wrong hands because of it.

Knowing how Governments work on military strategies around the world, is not just for James Bond, these things really are happening on a daily basis, by criminal gangs and spy's, of which you would never really get to know about until it was too late.

A little like the Russian spy's living a normal life in the USA....people are surprised when it happens, but it happens in every Country every day, the way to change politics, is to infiltrate and work from the inside.

The UK have had its fair share of spies, National Security should be number one concern, yet planning and implementation of immigration and foreign worker policies are so sloppy in UK. Lack of communication in UK between departments, causes chaos.

Funny when I think how the Japanese took Singapore, because the Commander in charge of British Forces had all the guns pointing out to sea...as got to be one of the biggest flops in British History, why probably because the guy in charge was an academic, with no military combat experience.

Singapore needs to tighten controls and vetting that's for sure, the risks of letting people just come here to produce babies, and become citizens can be a dangerous path to take for Singapore's security and future, in 30 years to come

Oops sorry my mind was wondering off topic!

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 15 Nov 2010 10:01 am

revhappy wrote:When I saw that UK have this country classification, I was quite happy but then after looking at how the countries were classified I was totally shocked I mean you dont need to be PHD from London School of Economics to see that the classification is totally crap.

Do the PhDs from the London School of Economics say it is a total crap?

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 15 Nov 2010 1:41 pm

I'm not a PhD from LSE, which is probably why I don't think it is totally crap :) I agree that there should be some way to equalize the vast differences in pay in different countries, akin to the concept of Purchasing Power Parity or the Big Mac rule which measures roughly how much a dollar can buy in different countries.

Perhaps a fairer way is to use the salary one has been offered to work in the UK. This would be an actual figure rather than an imputed wage. The private sector can then work out how much an individual worker is worth to the economy. Would that make more sense?

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Postby ksl » Mon, 15 Nov 2010 2:01 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:I'm not a PhD from LSE, which is probably why I don't think it is totally crap :) I agree that there should be some way to equalize the vast differences in pay in different countries, akin to the concept of Purchasing Power Parity or the Big Mac rule which measures roughly how much a dollar can buy in different countries.

Perhaps a fairer way is to use the salary one has been offered to work in the UK. This would be an actual figure rather than an imputed wage. The private sector can hen work out how much an individual worker is worth to the economy. Would that make more sense?
Agreed a much more logical way of looking at it, and probably the only way that makes sense, I vote for you to take over the role of kicking some butt in the UK, just like the Iron Maiden did in her time :?
Last edited by ksl on Mon, 15 Nov 2010 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 15 Nov 2010 2:12 pm

Maybe I am naive but all the ppl involved in the creation of such particular law can not be just idiots meaning there must be some reasons behind. If I do not see the reasons I'd rather say this is me who misses some dimensions or a perspectiv. For this particular case and the earlier one it is rather obvious that multiplying the salary numbers is not enough to get the right image. The whole socio-historical part/context is almost certainly a factor. The given numbers make some sens for me (even without this extra-dimension) but I am also not a PhD of LSE :)

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 15 Nov 2010 3:32 pm

x9200 wrote:Maybe I am naive but all the ppl involved in the creation of such particular law can not be just idiots meaning there must be some reasons behind. If I do not see the reasons I'd rather say this is me who misses some dimensions or a perspective.

I like your even-mindedness. One reason for assigning weightage to different countries could be that one can get a visa without landing a job yet. Or it simplifies the administrative process by using a fixed multiplier table ratherthan liaising with thousands of employers to verify the salary figure submitted, though if an applicant lies about his new salary then he would probably lie about his past salary too so I can't see this being a logical reason.

The difficulty with using a fixed multiplier, though the concept is good, is the challenge of keeping the figures up to date in real time. With different rates at which wages, inflation, and currency exchange rates fluctuate from country to country from year to year, plus the time lag before individual governments publish statistics, it must be a nightmare balancing the entire basket of indicators. Simplicity has an elegance to it that somehow this method seems to lack.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 8:44 am

It is always a compromise even if the factors were regularly updated.
India does not seem to fit to the band D at least by common perception and I am curious whether this socio-historical factor is here in place. Many countries offer some privileges to their former colonies.

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Postby revhappy » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 11:33 am

x9200 wrote:It is always a compromise even if the factors were regularly updated.
India does not seem to fit to the band D at least by common perception


Same case with China. I mean look at Beijing and Shanghai. How different is pay in these cities from Singapore? I wouldn't think average salary in Singapore is 5 times that of Beijing. Same case with Mumbai or Bangalore. Even if it was there is no point looking at the average, considering these are the worlds most populous cities, emerging giants and there will be tonnes of people who will be making much much more than the average salary, with mediocre skills. If UK needs really talented people from these countries they need to up the bar.

Another reason why Singapore shouldnt belong to band 1 is because of the lower taxes here. People in Australia or Canada with same skills will be expected to get minimum of 30% higher salary than SGers owing to tax alone but in reality they would probably get 50% higher due to the higher cost of living in those countries. So again SG cannot be in the same band as the other developed countries.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 17 Nov 2010 12:25 pm

My thoughts are on the passport and qualifications rather than earnings, as you are dealing with immigration, not the bank of England.

The multiplier appears to be on wealth of Countries and population. Immigration probably take everyone on a case by case application, so a letter detailing your experience would carry more weight than earnings.

You can also look at it another way, this method of online criteria is an obstacle course, and if you cannot solve obstacles what good are you!

Imagine how many academics with better grades fail at the first hurdle, as they cannot apply common sense, so they just do not apply.

It's the same here in Singapore too, many cases are taken on a case by case scenario, the online matching is just an obstacle course to over come if possible. Convincing ICA for an opportunity is the problem, as we are all guests and shouldn't take anything for granted so they tell me, when i discussed with them.

So basically don't get on their nerves and don't argue, be polite and respectful but convincing that you have something unique to offer the Country.


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