NS exemption for SG baby born and to be raised overseas

[perplexed]

Dear All

Would really welcome your thoughts.

Our family are Singaporeans, and we have been residing in Australia for the past 2 years-under a temporary residence visa, and are only now eligible for PR with the application in progress. But my hubby and I have have been out of SG for 6 years in total (UK and Aus)

Our son is a few mths old and was born in Australia and is a SG citizen-we had to register him as SG by descent or he would have been stateless. He holds a SG passport-unused for any travel so far.

We hope that he will be able to be exempt from NS, as our long term plan is to remain in Australia. I have no issues of him serving NS if we go back to SG, but that seems unlikely. And if he serves, he would have no close relatives in SG as his grandparents if alive, would be in their 90s then.

we are likely to get our Aus PR in a few months, and after 2 years, we will be eligible for Aus citizenship.

I have read previous helpful posts here on how to do so including the "guide to NS issues". I am aware he already has benefited from SG citizenship by virtue of acquiring the citizenship and his passport.

My questions:
1. Should we avoid claiming the baby bonus-as evidence he did not further benefit from SG citizenship

2. Should we be superKiasu and not travel out of Aus for the next 2.5 yrs or so, until he has an Oz passport and can travel with that, to show that he did not further benefit from SG citizenship. We have to decide, as we can apply for Aus PR either onshore or offshore (latter is about $1K cheaper)

3. Hubby and I are really reluctant to renounce our SG citizenship, esp if it means it is unlikely I can ever return to SG to work. Hate cutting those ties, as I worry about my parents when they get frail. Hubby also has more faith in the SG healthcare system. Do we really have to? On the other hand, if they do not let the kid be exempted and he refused to return , the worry is whether our CPF gets locked in.

If it is better to renounce our SG citizenship, is it better to do so ASAP when we are eligible for Aus citizenship in 2 plus years, rather renounce when our son is nearing 11/13.

4. Once we write in to the ICA and Mindef about our son's intention to renounce his citizenship (in about 2 plus years), should we start to remove whatever savings we still have in SG? We do not have any property or HDB flat. Really paranoid now...

4. Does our kindergarten aged Singaporean daughter born in the UK have to state her intention to renounce too, to show that we as a family are emigrating, or is SG not bothered about her daughters, only sons.

Thanks heaps in advance. It is such a minefield and we really do not want to severe ties with SG if we can help it, but really can't imagine him being away from family.

[sundaymorningstaple]

There is a heap of information with regard to your predicament in the Strictly Speaking forum. Links to several threads are appended herewith for your digestion (or indigestion after reading them).

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic72326.html

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic68009.html

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic70081.html

sms

[beppi]

If it is better to renounce our SG citizenship, is it better to do so ASAP when we are eligible for Aus citizenship in 2 plus years, rather renounce when our son is nearing 11/13.

Whether it is better or not is a moot point: Keeping your Singapore citizenship after acquiring another one is illegal (and as such, we cannot recommend it here, due to very sensible forum rules).
Not informing the Singapore authorities, or even lying to them (e.g. on the Singapore passport renewal form, where you have to declare that you have no other citizenship) will get you into more trouble than it's worth.
Acquiring the AUS citizenship ensures that you will not be able to live or work in Singapore again. Your son, however, is allowed double citizenship and cannot renounce his Singapore one until he has served his NS duties. There seems to be a way to avoid NS (complicated and full of pitfalls), but I don't know enough to comment (other threads about the topic on this forum have recently been deleted). If you choose that way, he also will never be able to live or work in Singapore again.
The message is: You're either Singaporean (with all strings and whistles) - or you are not.
Choose wisely!

[perplexed]

SMS-Thanks for the links. I had already read them and am aware that using the SG passport seems fine before the age of 11 etc. But I was wondering if we should be superKS and not use it at all.

Beppi-the Singaporean in me is ever so law abiding. If we were to acquire Aus citizenship, we would renounce our SG citizenship. Hence the dilemma. I have about 20 years of working life ahead of me, ageing parents in SG and can't gaze into the crystal ball.

We have decided not to claim the baby bonus.

Hubby and I can't agree about the NS issue-he thinks the boy should serve. But my concern is howhe would cope away from friends and family, in a culture that is not entirely familiar. As it is, I have tried to only speak Mandrin to the boy's older sister, but she replies only in English, and asks me what her spanish name is (thanks to Dora the Explorer). Like that where got chance?

[beppi]

Don't worry, by the time your boy is of NS age, he will jump at any opportunity to get away from parents and anything else familiar.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I am probably the wrong one to give advice here as I'm also pro-NS. As I'm ex-military, I firmly believe all males (and truth be know, females as well) should do a stint in some form of National Service. Having said that, given the choice, I opted for Singapore as that way my son (who has just had his NS physical on Tuesday) had less of a chance of seeing actual combat. Unlike my own country that cannot seem to keep out of wars at all, in fact creates them if they cannot find one!

But personally, if your son is fit, it's only 21 months out of his life and the networks he will create and the self sufficiency he will learn is of immeasurable benefit whether gotten here or in Australia or any other country for that matter. How will he survive? Like the millions of other boys who have done national service in one form or another throughout the world. Most did not have the benefit of being able to come home to mommy at the end of the day or end of the week. It's a time for a young man to grow up and learn to untie the apron strings and actually BE a man. Most do fine. By the way, youngsters are much more adept at assimilating in different cultures than old folk are. You worry too much. But again, show me a mother who doesn't!

I'm afraid I have to go with your husband on this one. Don't burn any bridges until you have to.

[Koalabear]

I beg to differ. I will follow protocols to the T and chart a course for him to skip NS legally. He can always choose to serve if he changes his mind later (before he renounces his citizenship at 21) but he cannot choose not to to serve once you did not file intent on renounciation.

[Koalabear]

Dear All

Would really welcome your thoughts.

Our family are Singaporeans, and we have been residing in Australia for the past 2 years-under a temporary residence visa, and are only now eligible for PR with the application in progress. But my hubby and I have have been out of SG for 6 years in total (UK and Aus)

Our son is a few mths old and was born in Australia and is a SG citizen-we had to register him as SG by descent or he would have been stateless. He holds a SG passport-unused for any travel so far.

We hope that he will be able to be exempt from NS, as our long term plan is to remain in Australia. I have no issues of him serving NS if we go back to SG, but that seems unlikely. And if he serves, he would have no close relatives in SG as his grandparents if alive, would be in their 90s then.

we are likely to get our Aus PR in a few months, and after 2 years, we will be eligible for Aus citizenship.

I have read previous helpful posts here on how to do so including the "guide to NS issues". I am aware he already has benefited from SG citizenship by virtue of acquiring the citizenship and his passport.

My questions:
1. Should we avoid claiming the baby bonus-as evidence he did not further benefit from SG citizenship

I will do so

2. Should we be superKiasu and not travel out of Aus for the next 2.5 yrs or so, until he has an Oz passport and can travel with that, to show that he did not further benefit from SG citizenship. We have to decide, as we can apply for Aus PR either onshore or offshore (latter is about $1K cheaper)

I think you can use the spore passport before you file intent on renunciation,

3. Hubby and I are really reluctant to renounce our SG citizenship, esp if it means it is unlikely I can ever return to SG to work. Hate cutting those ties, as I worry about my parents when they get frail. Hubby also has more faith in the SG healthcare system. Do we really have to? On the other hand, if they do not let the kid be exempted and he refused to return , the worry is whether our CPF gets locked in.

Too bad MS is not here. Its a game of luck but chances are low unless you do something stupid. Why are chances low? The govt does not aggressively enforce it because they know they cannot afford to if they want all the talents they need. However, that is not to say if you accidentally show the Singapore customs your OZ passport they will turn a total blind eye.

If it is better to renounce our SG citizenship, is it better to do so ASAP when we are eligible for Aus citizenship in 2 plus years, rather renounce when our son is nearing 11/13.
I'll keep my options open at do it at his age 11. Things change...[\i]

4. Once we write in to the ICA and Mindef about our son's intention to renounce his citizenship (in about 2 plus years), should we start to remove whatever savings we still have in SG? We do not have any property or HDB flat. Really paranoid now...

totally unnecessary. In fact you should leave some in Singapore as to diversify your risk from stupid tax policies in OZ. However, if you believe there is a risk of stepping on a minefield and the gahmen freezing your funds to force your son back, transfer your deposits to another tax haven. This is an important but not urgent matter. As long as you have followed protocol to the T, gahmen wont touch your savings.[\i]

4. Does our kindergarten aged Singaporean daughter born in the UK have to state her intention to renounce too, to show that we as a family are emigrating, or is SG not bothered about her daughters, only sons.

good question. SMS should elaborate on this.[\i]

Thanks heaps in advance. It is such a minefield and we really do not want to severe ties with SG if we can help it, but really can't imagine him being away from family.

[Koalabear]

There is a heap of information with regard to your predicament in the Strictly Speaking forum. Links to several threads are appended herewith for your digestion (or indigestion after reading them).

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic72326.html

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic68009.html

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic70081.html

sms

Nice one SMS! I bet the gahmen people are seriously pissed now