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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 4:45 pm

ksl wrote:I would think that other airlines may try to avoid the media, though it looks like a common design fault on this aircraft


Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa, and Qantas are the only airlines that use the Rolls Royce Trent 900 engines. All others use EA (Engine Alliance - General Electric/Pratt & Whitney) engines. Apparently Singapore Air did not find any oil leaks or doesn't think them material.

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Postby durain » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 7:37 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:Apparently Singapore Air did not find any oil leaks or doesn't think them material.


that's because someone left a pack of tissue there to soak up the oil. :P :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 8:00 pm

That makes me wonder. If none of the aircraft of other airlines are showing the leaking of oil and it's only happening on Qantas planes, then that leads me to wonder about maintenance quality in Aus. If it were a design fault you would think at leas ONE engine in another airline would be showing the same symptoms. And considering that SIA has the first off the assembly line? :-k

Unions guarantee jobs, not performance. :-|

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Postby ksl » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 8:45 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:That makes me wonder. If none of the aircraft of other airlines are showing the leaking of oil and it's only happening on Qantas planes, then that leads me to wonder about maintenance quality in Aus. If it were a design fault you would think at leas ONE engine in another airline would be showing the same symptoms. And considering that SIA has the first off the assembly line? :-k

Unions guarantee jobs, not performance. :-|

Qantas on September 19, 2008, and had logged around 8,165 flight hours and 831 flight cycles as of today," the statement said.
Yes it sure looks to be a service problem compared to Singapore who had their planes delivered before in 2007, though we will not know if the information is censored to protect the industry.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 9:05 pm

Actuallly Qantas is very highly rated.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 9:16 pm

SE, is that Rolls Royce personnel in the UK or in Australia? If in Australia are they union or are the seconded from the UK? Just curious because the problem seems localized to a single country. Makes me wonder if it's a design fault, maintenance fault, or an operational fault (pilots operating SOP for Qantas). Like everybody, I'm just speculating out loud.

I reckon time will tell....... :-|

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 9:29 pm

In recent years Qantas has had more than one incident with their aircraft which would seem to suggest that their maintenance is no longer what it was for whatever reason.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 9:34 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:That makes me wonder. If none of the aircraft of other airlines are showing the leaking of oil and it's only happening on Qantas planes, then that leads me to wonder about maintenance quality in Aus. If it were a design fault you would think at leas ONE engine in another airline would be showing the same symptoms. And considering that SIA has the first off the assembly line? :-k

Unions guarantee jobs, not performance. :-|


Actually, Qantus is very highly rated by most of the professional pilot forums. In any event, A380 maintenance is performed by Lufthansa and, Rolls Royce says they perform all the engine maintenance themselves.

Which makes sense... these days you don't sell an engine, you sell an entire life cycle of engine, maintenance, and rebuild.

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Postby ksl » Tue, 09 Nov 2010 9:53 pm

SMS:pilots operating SOP for Qantas


I was also thinking the same, some gungho pilot, who thinks he's god! I'll bet the crew are swapped around on those 3 machines and one jerk is not taking his SOP's seriously. One bad Pilot in the whole unit can cause a lot of damage.

If that's the case, this guy could be responsible for most of the problems within qantas organisation, though it's almost impossible to trace, just causes problems without them even realising it. Maintenance will be by the book and double checked and signed for, though heavy undue wear by bad piloting may not be picked up in the checks with so little flight time, as it wouldn't be foreseeable, if everyone is applying SOP's in accordance with RR

Qantas in my mind have acted very responsible and fast to ground them all and I see that as being very professional.

Something doesn't tally at the moment, if the other 2 airlines have no problems, Then something strange is going on.

Not the same plane but one of SIA
http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/ar ... id=4448113

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 9:41 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:SE, is that Rolls Royce personnel in the UK or in Australia? If in Australia are they union or are the seconded from the UK? Just curious because the problem seems localized to a single country. Makes me wonder if it's a design fault, maintenance fault, or an operational fault (pilots operating SOP for Qantas). Like everybody, I'm just speculating out loud.

I reckon time will tell....... :-|


Looks like I'm not the only one thinking along the SOB guidelines......

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A81YU20101109

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:15 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:SE, is that Rolls Royce personnel in the UK or in Australia? If in Australia are they union or are the seconded from the UK? Just curious because the problem seems localized to a single country. Makes me wonder if it's a design fault, maintenance fault, or an operational fault (pilots operating SOP for Qantas). Like everybody, I'm just speculating out loud.

I reckon time will tell....... :-|


It would appear that a potential reason for the QA failures has been unearthed.

While Lufthansa, Singapore Air, and Qantas all use the RR Trent 900 engines, Lufthansa and Singapore engines have a max thrust rating of 70,000 pounds.

The Quantas engines have been rechipped to produce a maximum thrust of 72,000 pounds. This has been done because the Los Angeles to Sydney flight is over 15 hours, and at max take off weight, the runway at LAX is barely long enough for the fully loaded A380. The extra thrust reduces runway requirements.

However, it is believed that at the max thrust setting (which happens during take off), previously unknown harmonic vibrations are introduced into the engine, causing cracking of the oil lines, subsequent oil leaks, and in this case perhaps, bearing and shaft failure which caused the engine to come apart.

It should be noted that the maximum certified thrust for these engines is 75,000 pounds, and that the engines are mechanically identical. The only difference is the electronics.

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Postby Saint » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:35 pm

Singapore Airlines has announced that it will change the engines on three of its A380 planes.

Rolls-Royce engine will be replaced with new versions of the same model.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11723778

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 1:42 pm

And having said all that and possibly how bad the Airbus or RR Engine is, I just heard on the radio at lunchtime the 787 Dreamliner went for an Emergency Landing in Texas turing a test flight.

Something to do with smoke in the cabin........ oops.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 7:29 pm

Sorted then :) The extra thrust appears to be the culprit from a logical point of view when all others have not had the same problems due to SOP's :) , SMS your in the wrong job :)

And for many businessmen that don't have SOP's in place, you are also likely to suffer the same fate of break down by employees and rising costs in maintenance if your SOP's are not in order. I see it with our drivers, though the boss was blaming the brand new trucks, many drivers have very bad habits of riding the clutch, burning it out in double quick time, we had 3 clutches burnt out in 6 months of driving, the drivers had no idea what was happening :???: Boss says its normal in Singapore :???: Running red lights is also normal they say along with tailgating. Off subject I know but very relevant to SOP's

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Postby Saint » Fri, 12 Nov 2010 9:18 am

A report to add to the scare around this event:

When it touched down the fuel systems were failing, the forward spar supporting the left wing had been holed and one of the jet's two hydraulic systems was knocked out and totally drained of fluid.

...

Investigators found shrapnel damage to the flaps, a huge hole in the upper surface of the left wing and a generator that was not working.
The crew could not shutdown the No. 1 engine using the fire switch.
As a result the engine's fire extinguishers could not be deployed.
Captain Richard de Crespigny, first officer Matt Hicks and Mark Johnson, the second officer, could not jettison the volume of fuel required for a safe emergency landing.

With more than 80 tonnes of highly volatile jet kerosene still in the 11 tanks -- two of which were leaking - they made an overweight and high speed approach to Changi Airport.
Without full hydraulics the spoilers - the hinged flaps on the front of the wings - could not be fully deployed to slow the jet.
The crew also had to rely on gravity for the undercarriage to drop and lock into place.

On landing they had no anti-skid brakes and could rely on only one engine for reverse thrust - needing all of the 4km runway at Changi to bring the jet to a stop.


I bet the pilots needed a change of trousers after land the A380!


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