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[Help]Starting a family with my work permit wife BUT!

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newRays
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[Help]Starting a family with my work permit wife BUT!

Postby newRays » Wed, 27 Oct 2010 8:26 pm

Hi everyone, having a bit of issues here, would deeply appreciate your help.

Yep, i tied the knot with my wife on Sept 2010 after dating for almost 2 years. I'm Singaporean and she's from China, on a work permit here. Prior to our ROM we were given approval from MOM's Controller of Work Passes, and on top of our marriage approval, it is also explicitly written:

" ...in addition, we have no objection to you/your spouse becoming pregnant or delivering your child in Singapore."

Now here's our problem, long story short- after our discussion to start a family, I asked her to check with her company's HR on the maternity benefits and so on. To our horror, the HR person said tt it is her company's policy that they do not allow PRC workers to get pregnant, regardless they are married or not and crudely told her tt they'll send her back to China if she's expecting.

Well I'm considering having her to quit her job and either:

1. apply for a long term visit pass OR
2. look for another job

We are more keen towards option 2, but here are my concerns... is she liable to pay for any damages to the company if she is going to resign (she found this job thru an agent, wanted to contact the agent to ask if there's any agreement contract between her and the company but he can't be contacted)?

I'm worried that her company MIGHT make things difficult should she send in the resignation, is there anyway they can sabotage her by blacklisting her with MOM and all that nonsense which may affect the chance of her being able work here again?

Lastly, can her company even do such a thing? Like terminating someone just because they are expecting despite being approved legally. Isn't that discrimination against pregnant ladies?

I know there are tons of rules regarding for what's OK and what's NOT for PRCs, and I'll be going down to MOM and ICA personally to find out more on our rights (nobody ever answers the phone!) but i'll be grateful if anyone can provide me any insights or solutions on this matter, thank you very much.

-newRays

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ksl
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Postby ksl » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:12 am

I think you are much better off sorting these issues out with MOM if possible, they can give you some sound advice on the pregnant issue and employer contract.

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Postby beppi » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:02 am

This is a typical example of how unscrupulous employers take advantage of (but not responsibility for) employees from third world countries who are motivated to work here by the money they can earn.

I think your wife is better off with another employer.
I am not a legal expert (you should consult one before any further move!), but I think if they terminate her (e.g. because she is pregnant) she shouldn't be liable for any damages. She can then get a DP based on your marriage and has the freedom to look for other work.

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Postby gravida » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:26 am

That's a tricky one. I was shocked to discover that Sg has no 'usual' protection for pregnant women, which you will normally have in Europe for example. One of my colleagues was fired even though she was 7 months pregnant, and the termination was not because of any misconduct on her side.
MOM officer should help you here, plus maybe a lawyer.

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Postby newRays » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 5:22 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

This is what i've heard from my lawyer out of professional capacity: ALL women are supposed to be protected by the employment act, which is 6 months before the confinement period the company will be liable to grant paid maternity leave for pregnant employees. So if the HR is informed prior to the trigger they can still terminate you... it's a little grey here because personally i don't think a similar case has ever been brought up to court before and she (my lawyer) hasn't seen any of such cases before so she'll still hav to consult those who specialise in employment cases before we get a clearer picture on the technical side.

Personally I think I can forget about challenging anything here. As long as my dear wife can stay by my side that will be good enough. But the complexity of work permit rules / applying for long term visit do worry me... it seems like 1 wrong step I might get her packing for good ;( guess family planning gotta be shelved for the brief moment

but I think if they terminate her (e.g. because she is pregnant) she shouldn't be liable for any damages. She can then get a DP based on your marriage and has the freedom to look for other work.


well i'll look into what are the procedures of applying a DP WHILE on a work permit, would be nice if this is possible ;D gonna find out what are the solutions to this matter, hopefully i can help others who are in the same situation here in the coming days.

-newRays

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Postby ksl » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 6:30 pm

beppi wrote:This is a typical example of how unscrupulous employers take advantage of (but not responsibility for) employees from third world countries who are motivated to work here by the money they can earn.

I think your wife is better off with another employer.
I am not a legal expert (you should consult one before any further move!), but I think if they terminate her (e.g. because she is pregnant) she shouldn't be liable for any damages. She can then get a DP based on your marriage and has the freedom to look for other work.
Married Singaporeans to foreigners and Pr's cannot get dependant pass, only LTVSP which doesn't allow you to work, like the dependant pass does. It also doesn't guarantee your spouse will be allowed in if you haven't been married for a while. This is to disrupt those convenience marriages (provide the evidence that permission was given by MOM)it may help a little.

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Re: [Help]Starting a family with my work permit wife BUT!

Postby Hope123 » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 3:40 pm

newRays wrote:Hi everyone, having a bit of issues here, would deeply appreciate your help.

Yep, i tied the knot with my wife on Sept 2010 after dating for almost 2 years. I'm Singaporean and she's from China, on a work permit here. Prior to our ROM we were given approval from MOM's Controller of Work Passes, and on top of our marriage approval, it is also explicitly written:

" ...in addition, we have no objection to you/your spouse becoming pregnant or delivering your child in Singapore."

Now here's our problem, long story short- after our discussion to start a family, I asked her to check with her company's HR on the maternity benefits and so on. To our horror, the HR person said tt it is her company's policy that they do not allow PRC workers to get pregnant, regardless they are married or not and crudely told her tt they'll send her back to China if she's expecting.

Well I'm considering having her to quit her job and either:

1. apply for a long term visit pass OR
2. look for another job

We are more keen towards option 2, but here are my concerns... is she liable to pay for any damages to the company if she is going to resign (she found this job thru an agent, wanted to contact the agent to ask if there's any agreement contract between her and the company but he can't be contacted)?

I'm worried that her company MIGHT make things difficult should she send in the resignation, is there anyway they can sabotage her by blacklisting her with MOM and all that nonsense which may affect the chance of her being able work here again?

Lastly, can her company even do such a thing? Like terminating someone just because they are expecting despite being approved legally. Isn't that discrimination against pregnant ladies?

I know there are tons of rules regarding for what's OK and what's NOT for PRCs, and I'll be going down to MOM and ICA personally to find out more on our rights (nobody ever answers the phone!) but i'll be grateful if anyone can provide me any insights or solutions on this matter, thank you very much.

-newRays


Dear Bro,
I am in similar situation like you. However, I have yet to engage. Can you let me know how to write in to MOM for approval first? Did you write through email or posted letter? How long do they take to reply? My girl is from PRC too and I am Singaporean. Thanks and hope you can help me with my answers. Thank you!

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Re: [Help]Starting a family with my work permit wife BUT!

Postby newRays » Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:14 am

Hope123 wrote:
newRays wrote:Hi everyone, having a bit of issues here, would deeply appreciate your help.

Yep, i tied the knot with my wife on Sept 2010 after dating for almost 2 years. I'm Singaporean and she's from China, on a work permit here. Prior to our ROM we were given approval from MOM's Controller of Work Passes, and on top of our marriage approval, it is also explicitly written:

" ...in addition, we have no objection to you/your spouse becoming pregnant or delivering your child in Singapore."

Now here's our problem, long story short- after our discussion to start a family, I asked her to check with her company's HR on the maternity benefits and so on. To our horror, the HR person said tt it is her company's policy that they do not allow PRC workers to get pregnant, regardless they are married or not and crudely told her tt they'll send her back to China if she's expecting.

Well I'm considering having her to quit her job and either:

1. apply for a long term visit pass OR
2. look for another job

We are more keen towards option 2, but here are my concerns... is she liable to pay for any damages to the company if she is going to resign (she found this job thru an agent, wanted to contact the agent to ask if there's any agreement contract between her and the company but he can't be contacted)?

I'm worried that her company MIGHT make things difficult should she send in the resignation, is there anyway they can sabotage her by blacklisting her with MOM and all that nonsense which may affect the chance of her being able work here again?

Lastly, can her company even do such a thing? Like terminating someone just because they are expecting despite being approved legally. Isn't that discrimination against pregnant ladies?

I know there are tons of rules regarding for what's OK and what's NOT for PRCs, and I'll be going down to MOM and ICA personally to find out more on our rights (nobody ever answers the phone!) but i'll be grateful if anyone can provide me any insights or solutions on this matter, thank you very much.

-newRays


Dear Bro,
I am in similar situation like you. However, I have yet to engage. Can you let me know how to write in to MOM for approval first? Did you write through email or posted letter? How long do they take to reply? My girl is from PRC too and I am Singaporean. Thanks and hope you can help me with my answers. Thank you!


I submitted an email query via the MOM website. Wrote my situation there with all our details (NIRC, Passport no., WP no. etc). Called the MOM concurrently (boy did it take long for someone to pick up), and spoke to the operator from the relevant department. the approval came around 7 working days.

-newRays

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Postby ksl » Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:51 am

Congratulations! Just to confirm it was LTVSP? She can still look for work, so it's not a problem, and you can also set up your own business and employ her too in the business on LTVSP, she'll be given the appropriate pass under spousal conditions.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 12 Nov 2010 6:50 am

ksl wrote:...and employ her too in the business on LTVSP...


Absolutely not correct. No working allowed on a LTSVP.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 12 Nov 2010 8:17 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
ksl wrote:...and employ her too in the business on LTVSP...


Absolutely not correct. No working allowed on a LTSVP.
Ksl said: Married Singaporeans to foreigners and Pr's cannot get dependant pass, only LTVSP which doesn't allow you to work,
That is correct SE it's just the way i said it, that you misunderstood.

You can look for work on a LTVP though if you find a position you must apply for the work pass. For married spouses of PR's and Citizens it is just a formality of applying for the the work pass and it is issued on a case by case scenario.

The only difference between Dependant pass and LTVP is one gets an LOC and the other gets a Work permit or pass which is relevant to their educational and experience standard. So to say you cannot work on LTVP is correct, but you can look for work and apply for the permission to work, which is a formality in Singapore for spouses

From September 2010:

http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... lders.aspx
Long Term Visit Pass - After you apply
Employment of Long Term Visit Pass Holders
Long Term Visit Pass (LTVP) holders who wish to work in Singapore and have found prospective employers will need work passes to do so


•If they are a spouse or unmarried child of the sponsor, there is no need for foreign worker levy to be paid. Their employment will not be counted towards the company's dependency quota.

They do not need to be from an approved source country in which case it maybe possible if the criteria is met, that spouse can start a sole prop and employ the spouse as the other spouse is the sponsor.

Of course Pte Ltd is better, though many people in this marriage dilemma are spouse with limited education and may only qualify for the work permit, as they have had permission to marry Singaporeans.

I also know some mainland Chinese, where the mother accompanied her child to study in Singapore, she is issued with LTVP and not allowed to work the first year until the child is settled. Then she can work with permission even in the areas where it stipulates the rest of foreigners cannot.
Like hawker centres, and low income areas, though married and residing here on LTVP's are assessed on their qualification, for work passes, all are allowed to look for work or start business with their spouse as sponsor.

I have also met a new arrival a student from UK, they have given him LTVP for 1 year to look for work, obviously when something is found, the employer applies for the work pass, their are no guarantees because these students do not have a spouse here, so foreign worker levy maybe payable but the student recieved a 1 year LTVP with no hassle and within a month he applied from UK.

But any employer may apply for a work pass for any person on LTVP! If they are married to PR or Citizen residing in Singapore, they are likely to have no trouble at getting a work pass, as they are not counted to the quota system for employers. So the emploment quote is not against spouses living here on LTVP if they are from Countries that are exempt. Spouse would have to check the list of Countries to see if they qualify.

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Postby Hope123 » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 8:29 am

Hi Bro Ray,
I got the reply from MOM already. One copy myself One copy for my to be spouse. It stated that they have grant approval for my marriage and no objection to my spouse give birth here. So does it mean that i can go ROM and marry already? After ROM, what's the next step? Go ICA apply for long term stay pass? But how soon will they approve? and currently she is on work permit so will she be holding 2 passes together? Or after taking long term pass, her work permit has to be terminated? Thanks if anyone can help because I am not very sure.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:50 pm

She can stay on her WP until you get PR if she wants (as long as she is still employer) otherwise, apply for an LTSVP with the letters (AFTER you ROM). However, if get gets an LTSVP, you do realize that she will not be able to work until she either applies for another WP or PR.

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Postby newRays » Thu, 18 Nov 2010 8:27 am

Hope123 wrote:Hi Bro Ray,
I got the reply from MOM already. One copy myself One copy for my to be spouse. It stated that they have grant approval for my marriage and no objection to my spouse give birth here. So does it mean that i can go ROM and marry already? After ROM, what's the next step? Go ICA apply for long term stay pass? But how soon will they approve? and currently she is on work permit so will she be holding 2 passes together? Or after taking long term pass, her work permit has to be terminated? Thanks if anyone can help because I am not very sure.


With the approval you can go ROM already, just make sure you make a soft copy of it and when you eventually apply for anything else just attach the approval along.

Depending on your situation, we are looking to apply for her LTSVP but she has to fly home first (required by MOM to leave Singapore upon cancellation of work permit) so during this period i'll be applying for her VISA and things like that. I didn't ask ICA whether she can work and get a WP while holding a LTSVP, you can try asking and update us here tho ;p

If you are both married and things are in order between she and her employer, you don't necessarily need an LTSVP for her. Of course it would always be good to have both but then the question you need to ask ICA + MOM is, is she eligible to apply for LTSVP while already holding a WP.
Last edited by newRays on Thu, 18 Nov 2010 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby newRays » Thu, 18 Nov 2010 8:38 am

ksl wrote:Congratulations! Just to confirm it was LTVSP? She can still look for work, so it's not a problem, and you can also set up your own business and employ her too in the business on LTVSP, she'll be given the appropriate pass under spousal conditions.


Thanks but no! :( Was talking about seeking the approval of marriage by controller of work pass (MOM) in my reply.

The whole process of applying for LTVSP should take about 3 months :shock:


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