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They've got their canes out again!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 02 Nov 2010 8:53 pm

Apparently you cannot read so well, As you cannot seem to play the ball but keep trying to play the player, you are now history just like your alter-ego, frankspore.

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anneteoh

Re: The issues

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 03 Nov 2010 2:12 am

x9200 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:If they're not S'poreans, why bother to cane them accruing to a waste of people's time and resources, and getting a bad name for Sg too?

Are these deliberate law breakers worth even a caning?


It is probably worth every cent spent. It would be much more expensive to track down and deport all the illegal immigrants that may get here by overstaying encouraged by the ghament not taking any action. IMHO this is for prevention. It is always cheaper to prevent.
Are the drug traffickers worth even prosecuting if they are not Singaporeans?


IMHO taken and mine given. Imagine two mandarins bowing!
If the idea is simply to deter illegal immigrants, the cheapest and least bothersome way is to deport them immediately. That's fast tracking action. Why drag the whole process through when these people can't pay any legal costs since they're already in debt?
The whole razzmataz is surely to show the world what responsible governments do, i.e. giving such blatant law breakers a chance to prove their innocence? Much as I abhor caning, even that action involves one having to dirty one's hands in all that unsavoury detention.
I thought the detention and questioning might involve Interpol and possibly the US and SG, thinking they might get to the bottom of a money laundering ring perhaps?

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 03 Nov 2010 6:55 am

@anneteoh: They need to be first found and detained. This generates a lot of costs. My thinking is if there are no drastic measures in place a lot of bottom paid foreign workers or visitors may just decide to overstay and look for an ad-hoc job. Not sure what is here the actual in/out-flux but I believe it may be some hundreds if not thousands a day and if only a fraction decides to do so it would engage tremendous resources to track them down and arrest. The country is rather small but the problem would be with their sheer number and the fact they are probably not that easily traceable.

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Re: They've got their canes out again!

Postby Plavt » Wed, 03 Nov 2010 2:13 pm

EADG wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/10/22/singapore.visa.caning/index.html?hpt=T2

Sorry, still barbaric in my mind, whether in the home or the general public. But I doubt they care how the rest of the world views them on this point.

I mean really, how could anyone actually order to do or do that to anyone unless they are just a little bit warped?


I won't bother to argue whether it is barbaric or not but from what I can see (and I don't claim to be right) this would seem cultural, that is; punishment in Singapore is 'designed' to humilate as other less drastic forms are. As an example, if you smuggle illicit DVD's the customs upon finding them will melt them down in front of you (locals can correct me if I am wrong).

To return to the issue of crime and punishment, foreigners should look up the penalties before they get there, I always do even though I have no intention of ever committing a crime!

Wind-In-My-Hair has a valid point; Singapore both hangs and canes more of it's own than anybody else but such hardly makes the news in Singapore. Strange how so many foreigners seem to think they should be exempt from the law of the land while doing enough shouting about 'bloody foreigners' violating the law in their resective countries.

As for punishment of any sort being a deterrent, I have serious doubts; not matter what the punishment or which country or culture, the crime will still be committed so the problem is never solved.

This is a little off topic but here's a quote written by the late Albert Pierpoint (Britain's most prolific hangman, not the 'last hangman' as he is often wrongly described). The view here can be attributed to many other crimes;

All the men and woman whom I have faced at that final moment, convince me that in what I have done, I have not prevented a single murder
Last edited by Plavt on Wed, 03 Nov 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: They've got their canes out again!

Postby x9200 » Wed, 03 Nov 2010 3:08 pm

Plavt wrote:
This is a little off topic but here's a quote written by Albert Pierpoint (Britain's most prolific hangman, not the 'last hangman' as he is often wrongly described). The view here can be attributed to many other crimes;

All the men and woman whom I have faced at that final moment, convince me that in what I have done, I have not prevented a single murder


After: http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/ ... ture.shtml
[..]In his book Pierrepoint had stated that he was against the death penalty but by the time he spoke to Reg Brookes in the 1970s he appeared to have changed his mind, “When I started writing that book, our country seemed pleasant and quiet. There was not a lot of crime. Not like there is today. I am now honestly on a balance and I don’t know which way to think because it changes every day.

“I know I wrote that in the book, and when I wrote that in the book I honestly believed it. But since then there’s been a lot more crime than there was in my time and I just can’t make my mind up.[..]


Very contradictive isn't it? Looks like he changed his mind few times.

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Re: They've got their canes out again!

Postby Plavt » Wed, 03 Nov 2010 5:25 pm

x9200 wrote:In his book Pierrepoint had stated that he was against the death penalty but by the time he spoke to Reg Brookes in the 1970s he appeared to have changed his mind, “When I started writing that book, our country seemed pleasant and quiet. There was not a lot of crime. Not like there is today. I am now honestly on a balance and I don’t know which way to think because it changes every day.

“I know I wrote that in the book, and when I wrote that in the book I honestly believed it. But since then there’s been a lot more crime than there was in my time and I just can’t make my mind up.[..][/i]



I don't think it so as he says; 'I don't know which way to think.' Perhaps quietly his conscience may have troubled him about the fact that he was taking away the lives of other human beings. The truth we may never know.
Last edited by Plavt on Wed, 03 Nov 2010 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby anneteoh » Wed, 03 Nov 2010 5:36 pm

x9200 wrote:@anneteoh: They need to be first found and detained. This generates a lot of costs. My thinking is if there are no drastic measures in place a lot of bottom paid foreign workers or visitors may just decide to overstay and look for an ad-hoc job. Not sure what is here the actual in/out-flux but I believe it may be some hundreds if not thousands a day and if only a fraction decides to do so it would engage tremendous resources to track them down and arrest. The country is rather small but the problem would be with their sheer number and the fact they are probably not that easily traceable.


X9200 - Indeed, they have to be found but is it necessary to detain people who have overstayed? In the act of detention, the govt become the custodians for them - not just having to house, feed and prosecute them. Regarding the need for prosecution, illegal immigrants have already broken the law anyway. Besides, nowadays, they can turn back and come up with a pack of lies about ill-treatrment and torture to sue those detaining them.

With regards to tracking the huge numbers of people who overstayed - the govt should make it illegal for anyone harbouring them as partners in crime and clamp a hefty fine. Same goes for this particular case.

On the whole, it's necessary to distinguish between refugees and criminal migrants, but that won't be an easy task. It'll be a very harsh world when we forget that there are genuine refugees.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Nov 2010 8:31 pm

anneteoh wrote:On the whole, it's necessary to distinguish between refugees and criminal migrants, but that won't be an easy task. It'll be a very harsh world when we forget that there are genuine refugees.


While I understand your position, I'm a firm believer of sending a signal that certain things are NOT done in Singapore. If you willfullly do so anyway, with the punishments already known, then to me, the punishment is deserved as they are daring the gahmen to do it. Also, it sends a strong signal to those who might be tempted to try it anyway, to have second thoughts. How many has it deterred? Guess we will never know, but I would assume that it's probably a pretty large number considering the huge quantities that are trying to get in legally already.

As for as determining between refugees and criminal migrants? Wouldn't it be better classified as refugees and/or economic migrants? Singapore has long had a position against taking in refugees and once you overstay your visa, your are a criminal migrant. This means they lose on both counts. The closest that they have ever come to that is in 1997 during the handover of HK to China when they gave out 25K Landed PR approvals in principle to those HK chinese who so desired them (much to to chagrin of the local Chinese).

As far as determining the difference, this isn't that big of a problem. In fact, I'm quite an expert at it as is ksl (but in Europe). For me, from 1988 to 1991, I was attached to UNHCR via the Joint Voluntary Agencies and a handful of us was what stood between VN refugees and economic migrants during the great exodus of boat people from VN and their quest to resettle to other countries. While there was a camp at Hawkins road in Sembawang, I believe Singapore only took in less that a dozen refugees. I worked throughout the refugee camps in SE Asia and it was my brief to determine who was and who wasn't. I even wrote a fact finding manual inclusive of how to determine fact from fiction and forgery. This manual was eventually given to the Indonesian Military in 1991 as the US Refugee Program was wound down so as to give them the necessary historical data to continue to process/vet potential refugees. The same type of information is available for most any Asian country with a little bit of research. For that matter, today it's even easier as all the information is readily available on the internet. Unlike back in the late 80's.

If anybody is interested in what the Camp in P. Galang in the Riau Islands looked like then, I'll try to get them online and post a link. The Indonesians have restored the place now, but it's been sanitized and "upgraded" so it doesn't really resemble what was really there and how they lived.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 6:43 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
anneteoh wrote:On the whole, it's necessary to distinguish between refugees and criminal migrants, but that won't be an easy task. It'll be a very harsh world when we forget that there are genuine refugees.


While I understand your position, I'm a firm believer of sending a signal that certain things are NOT done in Singapore.

SMS - are you back in SG. I sure would like to hear of your impressions of Texas (?) perhaps in a new post!
I certainly vote for the firm handling of visitors who overstay.
My POV is that once detected, they should be deported back to their own country. In this case, everything points clearly to the numerous laws they had broken but it might just be a Pandora's box as it seems. Unless the criminal activities of illegal immigrants can be used for the benefit of the public or for unravelling more sinister purposes, then it would be simplest to send them back.
I am not for caning and any other forms of infliction of pain on living things but I am not against the SG government for what they have in their system because that's none of my business. I'm glad this couple are caught and I dare say they deserve a jolly good caning but the thought of their bare flesh flaying, red and exposed with blood is repulsive.
The crux of the matter moreover, is does caning make criminals repentent?


How many has it deterred? Guess we will never know, but I would assume that it's probably a pretty large number considering the huge quantities that are trying to get in legally already.

You know, I used to believe that people should have the right to migrate to wherever they can find work. That's the whole idea of America in the pioneering days of the Wild West. I have known of economic migrants, and illegal migrants - they are prevalent in schools and on the streets. Just a few years ago, the Labour Party, and quite a number of politicians believed that migrant workers contribute to our society.
However, there are many cases of quack professionals who turn out to be criminals involved with many illicit businesses such as forgeries of fake passports and money as well as fake marriages and adoptions. The list is endless. That's when one draws the line.

SG is an attractive place for many reasons but it cannot take in too many as it's very small and overpopulation will prove unhealthy.


As far as determining the difference, this isn't that big of a problem.

It would be a relief for us here if illegal immigrants can be easily identified.

This manual was eventually given to the Indonesian Military in 1991 as the US Refugee Program was wound down so as to give them the necessary historical data to continue to process/vet potential refugees. The same type of information is available for most any Asian country with a little bit of research. For that matter, today it's even easier as all the information is readily available on the internet. Unlike back in the late 80's.

I read, some time ago, about Burmese refugees in Malaysia. It proved impossible for the police to track them down. They look like Malaysians and hide in the jungles when trailed. Similarly, it's difficult to shut out migrants from Mexico in the Southern states. I believe the Us Refugee program for VN was very different as there were relationships built up over the war years with the Southern Vmese.

If anybody is interested in what the Camp in P. Galang in the Riau Islands looked like then, I'll try to get them online and post a link. The Indonesians have restored the place now, but it's been sanitized and "upgraded" so it doesn't really resemble what was really there and how they lived.


In the final analysis, illegal immigrants are not refugees but they have a debilitating effect on immigration policies and tend to make us wary of taking in any migrants. I had to remind myself, not to be hard on those whose existence is unfortunate as the present very unstable time of fear and loathing can turn us into heartless cybernarians, well, we might have lost the humanitarians.

Unreported World from Channel 4 showed how extreme poverty and hunger drove families and children, as young as babies, to eat or smoke opium in the Southern parts of Afghanistan as the drug make their hunger less gnawing. These victims of war are not helped by either side of the warring faction; yet they are not even migrants. Such people have my respect but still, after some reflection, I think they should be planting food instead of opium. The fact was, they used to grow opium as cash crop but seem to be left with the opium nowadays. A bizarre twist in the situation; nonetheless, the children are the innocent victims.
In comparison, it seems that the Irish potato failure was a genuine reason for the mass migrations to the US.

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 10:20 am

anneteoh wrote:X9200 - Indeed, they have to be found but is it necessary to detain people who have overstayed? In the act of detention, the govt become the custodians for them - not just having to house, feed and prosecute them. Regarding the need for prosecution, illegal immigrants have already broken the law anyway. Besides, nowadays, they can turn back and come up with a pack of lies about ill-treatrment and torture to sue those detaining them.

With regards to tracking the huge numbers of people who overstayed - the govt should make it illegal for anyone harbouring them as partners in crime and clamp a hefty fine. Same goes for this particular case.

On the whole, it's necessary to distinguish between refugees and criminal migrants, but that won't be an easy task. It'll be a very harsh world when we forget that there are genuine refugees.

It was partly covered by your discussion with SMS but just for clarity: I do not think there are any refugees involved. These are/would be rather economical immigrants and I am a bit hesitant to classify them as criminal (formally they are) as this would be a self-supporting argument if you know what I mean.
Back to the point:
1. Once some critical mass of the immigrants is here you will likely have all sorts of associated problems including the criminal ones. They have to sustain themself somehow and they are already illegal so will have higher tendency to be involved in some criminal activity. So yes, there will be a need to detain them.
2. I agree that people who would hire or support them should be prosecuted but this is what contributes even further to the drainage of the resources.
3. Lastly, the gahment prefers to have everything under control - not questioning the need but just stating the fact. This would be a huge grey and potentially dangerous area just to be left with no control.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 10:23 am

anneteoh wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
anneteoh wrote:On the whole, it's necessary to distinguish between refugees and criminal migrants, but that won't be an easy task. It'll be a very harsh world when we forget that there are genuine refugees.


While I understand your position, I'm a firm believer of sending a signal that certain things are NOT done in Singapore.

SMS - are you back in SG. I sure would like to hear of your impressions of Texas (?) perhaps in a new post!
I certainly vote for the firm handling of visitors who overstay.
My POV is that once detected, they should be deported back to their own country. In this case, everything points clearly to the numerous laws they had broken but it might just be a Pandora's box as it seems. Unless the criminal activities of illegal immigrants can be used for the benefit of the public or for unravelling more sinister purposes, then it would be simplest to send them back.
I am not for caning and any other forms of infliction of pain on living things but I am not against the SG government for what they have in their system because that's none of my business. I'm glad this couple are caught and I dare say they deserve a jolly good caning but the thought of their bare flesh flaying, red and exposed with blood is repulsive.
The crux of the matter moreover, is does caning make criminals repentent?


How many has it deterred? Guess we will never know, but I would assume that it's probably a pretty large number considering the huge quantities that are trying to get in legally already.

You know, I used to believe that people should have the right to migrate to wherever they can find work. That's the whole idea of America in the pioneering days of the Wild West. I have known of economic migrants, and illegal migrants - they are prevalent in schools and on the streets. Just a few years ago, the Labour Party, and quite a number of politicians believed that migrant workers contribute to our society.
However, there are many cases of quack professionals who turn out to be criminals involved with many illicit businesses such as forgeries of fake passports and money as well as fake marriages and adoptions. The list is endless. That's when one draws the line.

SG is an attractive place for many reasons but it cannot take in too many as it's very small and overpopulation will prove unhealthy.


As far as determining the difference, this isn't that big of a problem.

It would be a relief for us here if illegal immigrants can be easily identified.

This manual was eventually given to the Indonesian Military in 1991 as the US Refugee Program was wound down so as to give them the necessary historical data to continue to process/vet potential refugees. The same type of information is available for most any Asian country with a little bit of research. For that matter, today it's even easier as all the information is readily available on the internet. Unlike back in the late 80's.

I read, some time ago, about Burmese refugees in Malaysia. It proved impossible for the police to track them down. They look like Malaysians and hide in the jungles when trailed. Similarly, it's difficult to shut out migrants from Mexico in the Southern states. I believe the Us Refugee program for VN was very different as there were relationships built up over the war years with the Southern Vmese.

If anybody is interested in what the Camp in P. Galang in the Riau Islands looked like then, I'll try to get them online and post a link. The Indonesians have restored the place now, but it's been sanitized and "upgraded" so it doesn't really resemble what was really there and how they lived.


In the final analysis, illegal immigrants are not refugees but they have a debilitating effect on immigration policies and tend to make us wary of taking in any migrants. I had to remind myself, not to be hard on those whose existence is unfortunate as the present very unstable time of fear and loathing can turn us into heartless cybernarians, well, we might have lost the humanitarians.

Unreported World from Channel 4 showed how extreme poverty and hunger drove families and children, as young as babies, to eat or smoke opium in the Southern parts of Afghanistan as the drug make their hunger less gnawing. These victims of war are not helped by either side of the warring faction; yet they are not even migrants. Such people have my respect but still, after some reflection, I think they should be planting food instead of opium. The fact was, they used to grow opium as cash crop but seem to be left with the opium nowadays. A bizarre twist in the situation; nonetheless, the children are the innocent victims.
In comparison, it seems that the Irish potato failure was a genuine reason for the mass migrations to the US.


I too, dislike physical punishment, but have to admit that it does serve a purpose. As far as migration without borders, well, until all governments are ruled by magnanimous rulers, I have my doubts that that will happen in our lifetimes. Until then, there will always be victims. Unfortunately, I don't subscribe to socialism or communism so I still want the ability to make as much wealth as I want (and keep it) and not have some damned tinpot president who wants to "redistribute" the wealth. When you take away a person's driving force, you destroy the person's ability/desire to produce. This eventually will have a debilitating effect on the entire country. (my country is a good example at the moment).


anneteoh wrote:My POV is that once detected, they should be deported back to their own country. In this case, everything points clearly to the numerous laws they had broken but it might just be a Pandora's box as it seems. Unless the criminal activities of illegal immigrants can be used for the benefit of the public or for unravelling more sinister purposes, then it would be simplest to send them back.


If this would work effectively, then it would be the ideal solution. But, in the case of the miracle of Singapore, there is a slight problem and that is limited land mass. Additionally, there is the added expense of the deportation of these economic migrants who become overstayers deliberately.

This added expense adds to the tax burden of her citizens as well at lending itself to criminal activities as they are not able to work legally so resort to shady methods of providing for themselves. e.g., living in the surrounding forests creating a mess, selling illegal cigarettes, working illegally for unscrupulous employers and becoming runners for loan sharking operations and who knows what else. All this hampers the MHA in trying to keep crime at a minimum here. Therefore, by making the punishment onerous for the crime, it sends a clear signal to those who would abuse Singapore, that should they get caught, there is a very dear price to pay.

I would agree that the punishment doesn't fit the crime (per se) but it's meant to be a deterrent. If you aren't deterred, then when caught, you don't have a beef as you know the risks up front. We have to remember that Singapore doesn't have the land mass that it's neighbours have and with 5 million bodies already legally overloading the infrastructure here, they cannot handle hoards of illegals trying to stay here as well. (This is no longer an agrarian society so they cannot be used like they are used in the US as itinerant farm workers).

Oh, yeah, got back from the farm in Maryland early in the wee hours of the 29th. Sure didn't want to but had no choice as my son needed to report for his military physical this past Tuesday.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 5:25 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't subscribe to socialism or communism so I still want the ability to make as much wealth as I want (and keep it) and not have some damned tinpot president who wants to "redistribute" the wealth. When you take away a person's driving force, you destroy the person's ability/desire to produce. This eventually will have a debilitating effect on the entire country. (my country is a good example at the moment).

From what I've read of China and Russia, communism is a means to an end. I don't grudge these countries for finding their own idealogy in a world grossly divided by inequalities. In fact, I'm glad communism had helped many countries eradicate such inhuman poverty as the poor in these countries had faced.
To me, history is shaped by people who are determined to define their systems of governance - any pussy footing about with the system they have set up will lead to the darker forces taking advantage of the good.
No doubt, such definitive governments can also lead to abuse of power etc. but judgement has to to betaken from their deeds.
If a society improves in all areas due to adherence to strict principles of governance, including the redistribution of wealth, the system is right and good for that country, as long as there's transparency and bucreacrats with clean hands. One should learn to accept plurality in ways of governing in the world by today.


Your assertion of the need of freedom for an individual to make as much wealth and own it strikes as a fundamental right for all. China proved that humans do best when they're personally rewarded - hence the change from a socialist to a mixed economy in 1978. Some short -sighted reporters criticized that as a sell out but the fact was, huge countries like China have to adjust their politics and planning at different stages. That's the reality of life, and from 1978, they realised that ' to be rich is glorious.' Of course, one needs to take that with a pinch of salt for it's equally mean to be a rich scrooge.

OTOH, countries like the US and the UK had to use socialist politics to readjust their troubled capitalist economy when they bailed out the banks for instance. The same goes for heavy taxation in all areas - 20 % VAT, 22 - 44% income tax, tax on all pensions, ( known as govt's disposable tax as there're no clear cut figure and is based on "everyone's tax code is different ." ) 40% ( or 50%?) CGT of properties over 250,000 GBP and of late, the huge increase in aviation tax. Students have to pay close to 10,000 GBP per year for Uni study, bring a total sum of close to 30,000 for the Uni course. There are phased exemptions for those below the breadline etc. but really, most people are already so drained. Parents earning above 40,000GBP annually will no longer get child benefits even if they have 9 children.
Just how much money can a man make in this so called capitalist world anymore? And wouldn't most people prefer their salary lowered to 39,999 GBP?


Compared to the rest of the world, SG should be applauded for it's long term thinking in governing a very successful country. I hope you will feel proud to be S'porean through your marraige, children and years of living and contributing towards its welfare.

If this would work effectively, then it would be the ideal solution. But, in the case of the miracle of Singapore, there is a slight problem and that is limited land mass. Additionally, there is the added expense of the deportation of these economic migrants who become overstayers deliberately.

I had agreed on that point. Moreover, I wouldn't like to see the good work done by S'poreans and expats spoiled by those flaunting its laws and slandering it.

This added expense adds to the tax burden of her citizens as well at lending itself to criminal activities as they are not able to work legally so resort to shady methods of providing for themselves. e.g., living in the surrounding forests creating a mess, selling illegal cigarettes, working illegally for unscrupulous employers and becoming runners for loan sharking operations and who knows what else. All this hampers the MHA in trying to keep crime at a minimum here. Therefore, by making the punishment onerous for the crime, it sends a clear signal to those who would abuse Singapore, that should they get caught, there is a very dear price to pay.

Yeah, I expect a government to stand by its principles. It's always so difficult to deal with some people who will repeatedly flaunt a country's laws. It's an unthinkable thing to do, but there are many who
will do anything to seek greener pastures through illegal means. It falls on the SG govt to sort out this couple's problems - if I had such a person in my own house, I'd just get him to leave immediately, sans the sordid process of explaining the laws to someone who scorns them and having to waste time, money and other resources. I wouldn't want to touch his skin, least of all, cane him. That was just what I meant.

Oh, yeah, got back from the farm in Maryland early in the wee hours of the 29th. Sure didn't want to but had no choice as my son needed to report for his military physical this past Tuesday.


Welcome back and I really hope you will love SG and all that she is. I'm not flattering SG but it's truly an admirable country with a strong government that work indefatigueably to safeguard its moral standing and economic concerns for its people.
Last edited by anneteoh on Thu, 04 Nov 2010 6:36 pm, edited 5 times in total.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Thu, 04 Nov 2010 6:09 pm

x9200 wrote:It seems that most expats here agree with the caning, unlike the "we " and "them" indicated by the initiator of this thread?


It was partly covered by your discussion with SMS but just for clarity: I do not think there are any refugees involved. These are/would be rather economical immigrants and I am a bit hesitant to classify them as criminal (formally they are) as this would be a self-supporting argument if you know what I mean.

NNo, they're not poor refugees but dishonest businessmen. The refugees came into my thoughts by implications because these guys who used their 'tourist visas' to flaunt laws and cheat others can so put off one's feelings for 'immigrants' that it can colour our attitude towards genuine refugees. That's just what I meant. But,as you said, they will then become economic migrants, given half the chance.
Anyway, if they wanted to do business in SG, why don't they simply apply for a Business Pass or have their visa extended?


X9200, the guy was involved with money laundering and phone scams and due to the fact that people complained about that, the implication was that he had cheated others. Are these activities not considered criminal in decent countries?

2. I agree that people who would hire or support them should be prosecuted but this is what contributes even further to the drainage of the resources.
3. Lastly, the gahment prefers to have everything under control - not questioning the need but just stating the fact. This would be a huge grey and potentially dangerous area just to be left with no control.


What's the point of controlling 'tourists' coming to your country to flaunt the law? I think the main purpose is to work with Interpol to investigate the bigger crimes re money laundering and phone scams. We get a lot of this in the UK.
A guy ( a really stupid one ) rang up and said , " I need information from you," just the other day. It's no laughing matter when some scatty people provided information only to find huge withdrawals made from their accounts in the bank.

So, yes, the SG govt is doing us a big favour to get to the bottom of this underground world.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:58 pm

Well after today's report of a parang attack on 18 kids having a game of football, it looks like the cane will be used more efficiently than ever.

It's got all the hallmarks of a revenge attack at the murder of the 19 year old, though this time they appeared to have attacked randomly. Not the last attack, but you can see why Singapore will never give up the cane :wink:
Only 5 of the 18 ended in hospital, it could have been worse, it was just a warning, as they used the flat side of the parang on many and laughed and joked when they hacked a 20 year old's legs and ankles

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Postby QRM » Thu, 11 Nov 2010 8:49 am

Is the problem the actual act of canning? you will also get the same effect with a red hot branding iron. I mean is it any better if they inject you with some sort of hallucinogenic drug so for two days you will be on some really nasty physically and mentally torturing trip?

How about psychological punishment? forced in a room listening to Kylie Minoge for 72 hours?


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