They've got their canes out again!

[Strong Eagle]

I can't help but believe that caning would go a long way to cleaning up America's gang problems.

As it stands now, with overcrowded courts and overcrowded jails, too often it is a meaningless slap on the hand, or if the perp does go to prison, he comes out hardened and more of a banger than ever. It's a badge of honor in the gangs.

But, swat his ass really good, for drug possession, robbery, larceny, or assault, and you'd see a real change in attitude. I don't see caning as being more 'barbaric' than locking someone away where they are subject to beatings, rape, and host of other prison ills.

[ksl]

If you two keep squabbling I will cane you, ksl style of course. But don't worry, poodlek will probably offer to bare (sic) it on your behalf.

Ksl, I too was caned as a child but prison caning is of a different magnitude. Kind of like... A post is a post, but a 4-paragraph post is infinitely more painful to read than a 4-line post

I certainly agree with what you are saying, though the reasons it was stopped in UK was because it was being abused too in the schools, i think what we have to consider that since the mid 50's & 60's that life has become much more governed by action groups, and I'm afraid that some people don't see reality as what it is.

Back in the 60's I have seen 13 and 14 year olds challenge teachers, and also beat them, very few was afraid of the cane, so the beatings became worse and worse, you see fear is only controlled by more fear, the majority will back off, but you will always have a hardcore that continue.

I have seen beatings by teachers that have lost the plot, due to stress and having to put up, with unruly kids, my point is, that some have been beaten worse than others and I am sure I can relate the cane, to that of prison, you see when you talk about being barbaric, its because of barbaric individuals that roam the streets, and I'm afraid we still have it big style in UK. It's just that the majority do not see or care how the rest live, as long as it doesn't effect them, its dog eat dog in the real world of gang warfare as I am sure the USA can vouch for, all we inherit are trends and if punishment is relaxed becuase of human rights and intervening grps, then all we have left is a free for all. No laws, No fears, and the foreigners and criminals take it for granted that society is for women.

If Singapore wasn't hard, then there would be many gangs laughing at the system, which they did back in the 60's and 70's when I recall at least 1 bank a week getting robbed, and also the kilometers of gold shops that was operting back then.

Even the Military's in Europe have got soft, and the charging of soldiers is fround upon, the discipline is laughed at and it becomes a joke, which Countries like China and The Middle East are laughing at, simply because it has got to the stage, where the control is in the hands of politician for votes. In stead of law and order for the society as a whole.

Army recruitment was down becuase it was too disciplined for children of the 70's being born in today's world as changed a great deal.

I can vouch for that becuase my own Son, ran off too becuase he couldn't handle the discipline, which I warned him of. What holds Countries togther is the discipline and respect for what it stands for, take that away and you have barbarians Unless you are a small Country that can manage the problems.

[x9200]

[..]

What we are talking about? We are comparing the school caning to the punishment carried out in Singapore. You used this analogy. Does it compare? Does the video show something similar to what you remember from your school time? Calling it a misconception is an euphemism at best.
How could you get from this that I am sympathetic to this guy - no idea. I said something rather opposite. I am NOT against caning as a punishment.
And you are wrong also in another point - I got my share of caning in the primary school.

Now WIMH you have no choice but whip me unless poodlek is already around.

[ksl]

[..]

What we are talking about? We are comparing the school caning to the punishment carried out in Singapore. You used this analogy. Does it compare? Does the video show something similar to what you remember from your school time? Calling it a misconception is an euphemism at best.
How could you get from this that I am sympathetic to this guy - no idea. I said something rather opposite. I am NOT against caning as a punishment.
And you are wrong also in another point - I got my share of caning in the primary school.

Now WIMH you have no choice but whip me unless poodlek is already around.

Yes I have seen the video, and yes it is comparable to the pain I felt and the whelts when you get whipped on your backside, the only difference is the damage and broken skin it is there for everyone to see, becuase they want you to see it, when you was told you wouldn't sit down for a week, they meant it.

If he had his pants on the pain would have been the same, I recall very well getting caned and it would be expected to be worse under the circumstances of crime, and that's how one relates to it and a good reason to stay on the straight and narrow road I would still say its comparable yes, I have seen broken skin after 6 of the best, though not as bad as the video looks.

Then you did have a taste of the cane in primary, its good you can recall it, now the video reinforces the difference between right and wrong.

I think when Poodlek says she has endured worse, it must have been pretty bad, or a joke, but also you only have to visit the women's shelter to see some of the beatings they have lived with day in and day out, so who really knows, what she is referring too, pain and suffering is just that, it never just goes away until you are able to change your life.

[Strong Eagle]

[..]

What we are talking about? We are comparing the school caning to the punishment carried out in Singapore. You used this analogy. Does it compare? Does the video show something similar to what you remember from your school time? Calling it a misconception is an euphemism at best.
How could you get from this that I am sympathetic to this guy - no idea. I said something rather opposite. I am NOT against caning as a punishment.
And you are wrong also in another point - I got my share of caning in the primary school.

Now WIMH you have no choice but whip me unless poodlek is already around.

Yes I have seen the video, and yes it is comparable to the pain I felt and the whelts when you get whipped on your backside, the only difference is the damage and broken skin it is there for everyone to see, becuase they want you to see it, when you was told you wouldn't sit down for a week, they meant it.

If he had his pants on the pain would have been the same, I recall very well getting caned and it would be expected to be worse under the circulmstances of crime, and that's how one relates to it and a good reason to stay on the straight and narrow road I would still say its comparable yes, I have seen broken skin after 6 of the best, though not as bad as the video looks.

Then you did have a taste of the cane in primary, its good you can recall it, now the video reinforces the difference between right and wrong.

I think when Poodlek says she has endured worse, it must have been pretty bad, or a joke, but also you only have to visit the womens shelter to see some of the beatings they have lived with day in and day out, so who really knows, what she is refering too, pain and suffering is just that, it never just goes away until you are able to change your life.

Deeper and deeper.

[ksl]

SE I have nothing else to do but rant on and on and on, Yawn, I can see I'll have to take up some more hobbies or sport to get away from the computer, you are right, the hole just gets deeper and deeper and these bloody post get longer and longer I can see i need to buy a parrot to keep me company in my old age. I'm begining to wonder if these long post are a sign of dementia Oh well life is what it is and history repeats itself by the looks of the post below

[EADG]

I remembered there was quite a discourse on this very subject in this very forum not long ago: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic ... sc-30.html

Back to the OP, have not heard what became of the perp since.

[ksl]

I remembered there was quite a discourse on this very subject in this very forum not long ago: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic ... sc-30.html

Back to the OP, have not heard what became of the perp since.

Yes it did jog my memory it's 2years ago, I also wonder what happened to him, he will be around 34 today, it would be interesting to have his opinion.

[carteki]

From where I sit, If we had more draconian laws in the US, Maybe we wouldn't have as high crime rates, drug problems or delinquency problems. I don't know. But, I do know this.... If you do the crime after all the warnings you get in Singapore from the moment you step off the airplane (actually while you are in the air before even landing) even before you get through immigration, then the punishment is warranted as you would have had to deliberately, with pre-meditation commit the crime (regardless of the nature of the crime). By making the punishment excessive, one would have to think twice about committing the crime. Therefore, no punishment is excessive if it accomplishes what it was designed to do - prevention of crime. It's only excessive when you "break the law". Solution? Don't break the law. Simple. Personally? I would like to see the US enact the same laws as are here.

Another pov of that can be found here: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.p ... -Prisoners - Actually from the Economist, but that is subscription only.

Never in the civilised world have so many been locked up for so little

[Wind In My Hair]

Now WIMH you have no choice but whip me unless poodlek is already around.

Nah, I like you too much to spank you, and ksl would like it too much if I spank him. Too bad poodlek is not around to prove her manhood...

Carteki, thanks for that informative link.

[Asian_Geekette]

Now WIMH you have no choice but whip me unless poodlek is already around.

Nah, I like you too much to spank you, and ksl would like it too much if I spank him. Too bad poodlek is not around to prove her manhood...

Carteki, thanks for that informative link.

Ok, I have just turned around and when I come back to read this part, this so-called serious discussion has turned into a fetish play. It started with caning... now I see spanking and whipping! So, when do we take out the leather boots, corsets and garter belts for the annual Halloween fetish wear fashion show?! lol

[nakatago]

Did someone say whips?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aeYaTvkWNc

Now WIMH you have no choice but whip me unless poodlek is already around.

Nah, I like you too much to spank you, and ksl would like it too much if I spank him. Too bad poodlek is not around to prove her manhood...

Carteki, thanks for that informative link.

Ok, I have just turned around and when I come back to read this part, this so-called serious discussion has turned into a fetish play. It started with caning... now I see spanking and whipping! So, when do we take out the leather boots, corsets and garter belts for the annual Halloween fetish wear fashion show?! lol

[x9200]

I knew it would end up this way. Few years more and we will run out of neutral vocabulary.

[treacle_sponge]

It's interesting that my mother and I had a similar discussion a couple of nights ago about this very thing. She also thought the system was very barbaric until she looked at it from a different (my) POV.

From where I sit, If we had more draconian laws in the US, Maybe we wouldn't have as high crime rates, drug problems or delinquency problems. I don't know. But, I do know this.... If you do the crime after all the warnings you get in Singapore from the moment you step off the airplane (actually while you are in the air before even landing) even before you get through immigration, then the punishment is warranted as you would have had to deliberately, with pre-meditation commit the crime (regardless of the nature of the crime). By making the punishment excessive, one would have to think twice about committing the crime. Therefore, no punishment is excessive if it accomplishes what it was designed to do - prevention of crime. It's only excessive when you "break the law". Solution? Don't break the law. Simple. Personally? I would like to see the US enact the same laws as are here.

Assuming of course that a criminal weighs the pros and cons of such a crime before committing it. I, personally, find it barbaric and a total disregard of human rights. Before someone else points out that the criminal (if he was rightly convicted, of course, since there is a 30% or so wrong conviction rates in the UK alone) has total disregard for his victims, surely a custodial sentence is enough, without stripping the person's sense of dignity?

[ksl]

It's interesting that my mother and I had a similar discussion a couple of nights ago about this very thing. She also thought the system was very barbaric until she looked at it from a different (my) POV.

From where I sit, If we had more draconian laws in the US, Maybe we wouldn't have as high crime rates, drug problems or delinquency problems. I don't know. But, I do know this.... If you do the crime after all the warnings you get in Singapore from the moment you step off the airplane (actually while you are in the air before even landing) even before you get through immigration, then the punishment is warranted as you would have had to deliberately, with pre-meditation commit the crime (regardless of the nature of the crime). By making the punishment excessive, one would have to think twice about committing the crime. Therefore, no punishment is excessive if it accomplishes what it was designed to do - prevention of crime. It's only excessive when you "break the law". Solution? Don't break the law. Simple. Personally? I would like to see the US enact the same laws as are here.

Assuming of course that a criminal weighs the pros and cons of such a crime before committing it. I, personally, find it barbaric and a total disregard of human rights. Before someone else points out that the criminal (if he was rightly convicted, of course, since there is a 30% or so wrong conviction rates in the UK alone) has total disregard for his victims, surely a custodial sentence is enough, without stripping the person's sense of dignity?

I think you should read this http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... on.justice and this link http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic ... sc-30.html There is enough source information.

But you are right it is barbaric, mostly because many of these crimes are barbaric, my own mother was mugged on her doorstep own doorstep, she was 83 years old at the time, i have a front page clipping somewhere of the incident, just one of many incident she has had to deal with in what used to be a nice area. Problem is that most people don't give a toss, because it doesn't involve them, they can afford to live in a more controlled environment.

I wonder what happened to the human rights you preach. Barbarians are treated with barbaric methods, and i have no qualms whatsoever of doing the whipping myself at the time of the incidents, though you are right, that it shouldn't have to come to that. But crime pays in many countries these days and there will laways be animals to deal with.

The police need to be watched too, as they do frame anyone that fits the picture in UK, until the opposite is proved, if you have no witnesses to prove your innocence, then you are a target victim, for an early end to a crime, it doesn't matter to them if they can get away with it, some even get promoted for results and move up the chain of command.