Singapore Expats Forum

They've got their canes out again!

Chats, Flames, Jokes, Junks. Don't know where to post ? You've just found the right place.
User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 7:21 pm

Without taking sides in this good old-fashioned brawl, let me clarify some facts.

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system;


What does corporeal mean? Is it Singlish?

No lah. Most Singaporeans have probably never heard of the word. It's old (Middle) English, from the Latin corpus which means 'of the body'.

Corporeal refers to the whole physical structure or nature, of the body; as, corporeal substance or frame. Corporal, as now used, refers more to punishment or some infliction; as, corporal punishment. To speak of corporeal punishment is an error. Source: The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48

Therefore you are both wrong :P

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:it being a practice he had admired as an effective deterrent for repeating crimes.


There was no corporal punishment in the UK, by the time the Lee dynasty took over Singapore.

Corporal punishment was abolished in the UK in 1948, which indeed was before LKY became prime minister in 1959. However LKY was schooled in the British system, first in Raffles Institution and College in Singapore from 1936 to 1942, then in Cambridge University in the UK from 1947-1949 and therefore familiar with the practice of corporal punishment in the UK and openly admired it.

Therefore you are both correct :D

User avatar
QRM
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1831
Joined: Mon, 17 Oct 2005
Location: Nassim hill

Postby QRM » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 8:10 pm

WIMH, your Yoda like harmonic brilliance shine through yet again.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 10:09 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:Without taking sides in this good old-fashioned brawl, let me clarify some facts.

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system;


What does corporeal mean? Is it Singlish?

No lah. Most Singaporeans have probably never heard of the word. It's old (Middle) English, from the Latin corpus which means 'of the body'.

Corporeal refers to the whole physical structure or nature, of the body; as, corporeal substance or frame. Corporal, as now used, refers more to punishment or some infliction; as, corporal punishment. To speak of corporeal punishment is an error. Source: The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48

Therefore you are both wrong :P

Thanks WIMH. You caught me there - ah, should've referred to the good old Concise Oxford for the ME change in spelling. Very diplomatic of you.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 10:40 pm

Oh yes, we all just updated from speaking Middle-English didn't we?

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 11:37 pm

QRM, too kind you are :kiss:

Anne, you're welcome. I often make mistakes myself and so have developed the habit of checking dictionaries when I'm unsure.

JR8, I should clarify that 'corporeal' is still in use today though it originates from the 15th century, so it is definitely not Singlish and cannot be blamed on the Lee dynasty :wink:

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9166
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 8:50 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:To speak of corporeal punishment is an error.


Hmmm. Isn't the capital punishment made by lethal injection a corporeal punishment? :)

User avatar
durain
Director
Director
Posts: 3666
Joined: Thu, 23 Aug 2007
Location: Location: Location: Location:

Postby durain » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 9:05 am

for real as ali g would say... :D

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 9:24 am

And Ali Batty would give a whole spiel, none of which made any sense.

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 12:35 pm

x9200 wrote:Hmmm. Isn't the capital punishment made by lethal injection a corporeal punishment? :)

Hmmm, I believe this is a technical impossibility. Lethal injection frees the soul from its corporeal existence, and technically you cannot punish what no longer exists :)

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9166
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 1:28 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
x9200 wrote:Hmmm. Isn't the capital punishment made by lethal injection a corporeal punishment? :)

Hmmm, I believe this is a technical impossibility. Lethal injection frees the soul from its corporeal existence, and technically you cannot punish what no longer exists :)

But corporeal is not only used in a philosophical context but also on a purely technical ground. Extracorporeal circulation for example :) So semantically, a corporeal punishment should refer to a punishment where the body is internally affected by some kind of not really pleasant process :) Ergo, the phrase should be technically correct :)

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 3:07 pm

x9200 wrote:But corporeal is not only used in a philosophical context but also on a purely technical ground. Extracorporeal circulation for example :) So semantically, a corporeal punishment should refer to a punishment where the body is internally affected by some kind of not really pleasant process :) Ergo, the phrase should be technically correct :)

It's like 'runny nose' and 'running nose'. In both cases the meaning is clear and technically not wrong. Just that to someone familiar with the language, one sounds right and the other sounds weird.

In the context that God were arguing with Satan whether hell should consist of corporeal or spiritual punishment, 'corporeal' seems the appropriate term. Here on earth where all is corporeal anyway, its use is almost a tautology.

Then again, what do I know. I'm a native Singlish speaker and have to refer to dictionaries when it comes to proper English :)

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9166
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 3:24 pm

Yeah, I guess you are right and I am not even a native speaker of any sort of English.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 4:20 pm

x9200 wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:
x9200 wrote:Hmmm. Isn't the capital punishment made by lethal injection a corporeal punishment? :)

Hmmm, I believe this is a technical impossibility. Lethal injection frees the soul from its corporeal existence, and technically you cannot punish what no longer exists :)

But corporeal is not only used in a philosophical context but also on a purely technical ground. Extracorporeal circulation for example :) So semantically, a corporeal punishment should refer to a punishment where the body is internally affected by some kind of not really pleasant process :) Ergo, the phrase should be technically correct :)


Good for you x9200. At least you're not just resorting to the lowly stuff of name calling prone to those yobs and street lads. The words corporal and corporeal are similar semantically and in pronunciation, but such pursuit of genuine knowledge is above the capacity of the name -calling lout.
Basically, all the vowel shifts and the consequent changes in spelling came about as English borrowed from other languages e.g. the Latin corpus for body but as the original borrowed words adapted to local usage, they change phonetically and semantically. However, there's always a new coinage which once published becomes acceptable as the norm. They don't always work, e.g. the Duchess of York's 'bestest friend' but some do, like the BBC's 'chav and bling' - drawn from local slangs really.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 4:49 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
x9200 wrote:But corporeal is not only used in a philosophical context but also on a purely technical ground. Extracorporeal circulation for example :) So semantically, a corporeal punishment should refer to a punishment where the body is internally affected by some kind of not really pleasant process :) Ergo, the phrase should be technically correct :)

It's like 'runny nose' and 'running nose'. In both cases the meaning is clear and technically not wrong. Just that to someone familiar with the language, one sounds right and the other sounds weird.

I don't think they are similar cases in any way close to the above comparison given above for these reasons : -
a. there's a semantic difference in the morphological structure
runny = adjective,
running - continuous tense verb with adjectival overlap
b. corporal and corporeal - semantically and phonetically interchangeable.
I would still use corporeal punishment!

In the context that God were arguing with Satan whether hell should consist of corporeal or spiritual punishment, 'corporeal' seems the appropriate term. Here on earth where all is corporeal anyway, its use is almost a tautology.

Then again, what do I know. I'm a native Singlish speaker and have to refer to dictionaries when it comes to proper English :)


WIMH, you're an English speaker; and what's his name Q.. will agree, I'm sure. Accents don't describe language speakers but grammar and etymology do - this if my POV as usual. You write perfectly good English, better than some less linguistically proficient native English speakers.
Singlish speakers are mainly those who who stress heavily on their lahs, leis and lohs while skipping the grammatical well-formedness e.g. "Where got lah?"

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 5:01 pm

JR8 wrote:And Ali Batty would give a whole spiel, none of which made any sense.


One last reply from me. I'm sick to death of your gutter behaviour in this forum. You were exiled here when your obvious name calling was recognised by the previous forums whatever they were.
I intend to report you for name calling which I think you agreed to accept as one of the terms for membership in this, or any forum.

PS I apologise for commenting on your wrong spelling in 'corporal' but you've not won any points in making any civil refutations. No points whatsoever for any good discussions throughout except in slander and name calling.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Leisure Chat, Jokes, Rubbish”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest