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They've got their canes out again!

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 1:31 am

anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:Have you read this book that you wish to be burned?

Read the context of what I said and stop asking silly questions. Let's just end here JR8 - I'm going into retreat from you.


Rather than all the ad hom, a simple yes or no would have sufficed.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 1:49 am

The Police in Singapore are having a field day, they have pulled in over 40 different gang members and more are on the way.

Actually I enjoyed reading what the NP said today, referring to these thugs as badly organised not like the gangs of the old days, who were very well organised and hard. The NP listed 14 gang related murders on HDB estates and the City and two child molesters 1 committing more than 28 offences. Looks like the Police are cleaning up a little. They had over 20 loansharks arrested too this week alone.

It's really a sad day, when you think how many families are going to be suffering, these young adults 4 or 5 if found guilty of murder will be faced with hanging.

I'm kind of mixed up on all this, and hope they will be rehabilitated, rather than hanged.

All these kids need counselling at a younger age in school, it needs to be stamped out before it manifests, the authority have never cared for whats been going on before, and now its too late.

These are not real gang members, they are dreamers and wannabees, that want some kind of fame. Otherwise they wouldn't be naming names at all, they are not made of the same material of those in the 60's and & 70's when the secret societies stood for something, they were well organised and ruled with an iron fist. according to the police.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 8:09 am

anneteoh wrote:Parents have their rights to keep their children on the straight and narrow instead of allowing them to extort, bully or inflict pain on others.
Societies in diferent cultures believe in enforcing different strategies to teach their children, Whichever stategy teaches effectively works. You don't make the golden rule for all.
The worst mentality is one of arrogance, ignorance and violence, a Mr Know All about others. The rest work comparatively to improve their understanding.

Well said, Anne.

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Postby QRM » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 8:19 pm

anneteoh wrote:... So now, you've found a good substitute for your racist inclination at poking fun at Asian ladies.


Racist? LOL have I missed something here? why not chunk in to the pot homophobic, ageist, and sexist. You are really funny, the Aunty Batty was, as JR8 pointed out an affectionate quip, the name suit you.

I can laugh off the fact that you call me a retarded racist. Bit like at boarding school everyone had names, Copper knob, Womble (he only had one testicle), Mini, Roach... even SMS gets affectionately called all sort, do you see him and other flailing their arms around looking for the kitchen knife and shower curtain?

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:01 pm

ksl wrote:The Police in Singapore are having a field day, they have pulled in over 40 different gang members and more are on the way.

Actually I enjoyed reading what the NP said today, referring to these thugs as badly organised not like the gangs of the old days, who were very well organised and hard. The NP listed 14 gang related murders on HDB estates and the City and two child molesters 1 committing more than 28 offences. Looks like the Police are cleaning up a little. They had over 20 loansharks arrested too this week alone.

It's really a sad day, when you think how many families are going to be suffering, these young adults 4 or 5 if found guilty of murder will be faced with hanging.

I'm kind of mixed up on all this, and hope they will be rehabilitated, rather than hanged.

All these kids need counselling at a younger age in school, it needs to be stamped out before it manifests, the authority have never cared for whats been going on before, and now its too late.

These are not real gang members, they are dreamers and wannabees, that want some kind of fame. Otherwise they wouldn't be naming names at all, they are not made of the same material of those in the 60's and & 70's when the secret societies stood for something, they were well organised and ruled with an iron fist. according to the police.


It's unbalanced to have either complete liberalism or hardline discipline on criminals. I believe the law should be changed to accommodate the enforcement of a range of disciplines to suit the individual, as long as it's onerous on the security system to ensure all criminals cases are cost effective. i.e. criminals should pay for the punishment meted out to them. I don't know why tax payers have to pay for the anti-social behaviour of thugs. As in TCM and accupuncture, there isn't a prescription to suit all.

Basically, the issues are about caning and capital punishment.
1. Does caning work to deter crime?
2. Should there be capital punishment?

In countries where the law is rigidly applied, e.g. in Arabic countries where thieves have their hands chopped off, they effectively put an end to thieving. This projects a grahic element of fear, permanent loss and eternal damnation so it's an effective deterrent.
The implication would be if a poor father stole to appease the gnawing hunger of his starving children. It would be a tragedy to have the poor thief's arm amputated. OTOH, a burglar or bandit robbing anyone off their goods or a fraudulent investment CEO to bring it to up to date, for the heck of it all, might deserve to lose one hand for life.

In countries where there's simply communal service or imprisonment for thieves, thieving, robbery and burglary are rife. At the end of the day, who suffers? And who have to pick up the costs of enforcing the jurisdticion from the criminal act to the penalization of the thief?

Where would you rather live?
I personally find SG a very tolerable midway between the two extremes. Most S'poreans know that a relaxation of the penal system will bring the return of serious gangs who would normally target the rich and foreigners.

It would be a great day when we can change criminals into conscientious individuals with a wave of the wand. Until then, is the current CME subject sufficient to deal with all the issues facing contemporary society or should the secondary school curriculum be broadened to include social studies on crimes, punishments, criminology and the law?

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:18 pm

[quote="Wind In My Hair

Well said, Anne.[/quote]

Thanks WIMH - lest democracy lunge us into the tower of babble.
I have a few pms from S'poreans making similar comments.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:30 pm

QRM wrote:
anneteoh wrote:... So now, you've found a good substitute for your racist inclination at poking fun at Asian ladies.


Racist? LOL have I missed something here? why not chunk in to the pot homophobic, ageist, and sexist. You are really funny, the Aunty Batty was, as JR8 pointed out an affectionate quip, the name suit you.

I can laugh off the fact that you call me a retarded racist. Bit like at boarding school everyone had names, Copper knob, Womble (he only had one testicle), Mini, Roach... even SMS gets affectionately called all sort, do you see him and other flailing their arms around looking for the kitchen knife and shower curtain?


Yes, one that's full of negative connotations - suits yourself better.
Alright, that's a hard POW back to you and I'm glad you bounced back on your feet; but all this second childhood nostalgia? Or reinventing Hitchcock?
All this 'jolly' monkey behaviour when someone's going to get caned, or was it water boarding you'd described in such torturous detail?

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Postby ksl » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 11:14 pm

In todays paper the police have reassured Singaporeans, they will not tolerate this violence, and will implement the temporary provisions act if necessary, those that need to be charged for serious offences will be charged, those that need to be put under detention, will be put under detention. The act allows suspects to be detained without trial.

There was a scuffle at Rowell Rd to men in their 50's fighting one is seriously ill with 3 knife wounds. last night.
They also found 13 butchers knives in Bukit Pannjang attacks.

Singpore police, the older generation have said they will clamp down hard if need be. The Bukit Panjang attack was not a random attack, though the person they attacked may have been, but they had planned on going out to hurt people. The street corner gangs are not connected to secret societies, even though they shout their names in the attacks, they are wannabees.

Looks like they have everything under control even the prevention of this happening again, so well done Singapore.

The UK and other Countries with anti social behaviour could absolutely learn something here, the cane will and does work, and it appears the culprits are given sufficient warnings of what will happen if the don't change their ways.

Interviews with some gang members have said, that they also fear the leaders and cannot escape them, some mothers are selling up to get their kids away from the bad company, and it effects high grade students too, that have been dragged and pressured into joining the gangs.

Looks like rehab for many, with a chance to clean up and turn their life around, before the heavy hand does fall.

A young Indian 24 years old was also sentenced to hang, for the murder of his girlfriend, that wanted to break up with him in today's paper. 20 relatives broke down in tears.

When I consider my own life in this kind of environment, it was my parents that guided us, my father was a boxing trainer all his life, and he insisted we should not tolerate bullies, at 7 or 8 he wouldn't let me in the ring, just my older brother. fights in the street were often broke up by my father, and he would drag them off to the ring, to settle their differences.

It was always the Queensberry rules, though as one got grew up things changed in the mid 70's a new group of cowards, that attacked in gangs, I recall being on leave from the army and walking home from the pub, when a group of 7 started shouting at my brothers friend with threatening language, my older brother said ignore it.

I couldn't so I walked over to the group, and asked which one of you is the hardest here, do you want to fight, they actually became apologetic and made excuses they didn't mean anything by it.

After i explained to them that they are a group of 7 picking on one guy, now i am one guy picking on 7, I don't know if i will win, but i will fight all 7 if that's what you want, they must have thought i was a real lunatic, but they knew I was born on the estate and who I was and didn't want to mix it.
I mean there was some real head bangers in their teens and early 20's, that are just encouraged to do the most stupidest things, without really understanding the consequences, they are not smart kids, they are troubled kids, with family problems, single parents, and poverty, others from good homes are just in the environment and get dragged into it all.

I often go home and visit the estate, many still know me and are very polite, but those that don't know me act just like the wild gangs of today, they hunt in packs and beat up people just for a laughs, its an environment which is best forgotten in the eyes of the police, in stead of pulling down the whole area, the stigma of the housing estate still exists.

Though the government had planned it that way, to segregate all the criminals in one estate, as they were released from prison, this has happened in most Cities, so they could sell off all the council housing, they took the idea from Singapore actually, to give everyone the opportunity to own their own property in the 70's Maggie Thatcher was at the helm.

It benefited really lots of people, though our estate was the unlucky one, that was rewarded with all the crap and no policing, it didn't go long before the whole estate was a no go area for police and outsiders. To reach these kids that are at risk, community services need to be actively involved, as most are troubled kids, that get no respect or family love, they are all in the same boat, disturbed social backgrounds, educational drop outs, petty criminals, and gangsters and its the gangsters that rule through fear.

There is an hierarchy and the top dog needs to fall, to allow any chance of escape its a vicious circle and one runs the risk of the top dog setting the group on those that want out. Always best to not get too involved.

The statistics her in Singapore show 278 arrests for rioting behaviour from Jan to June 2010 overall crime arrests was 2,086 and it has been climbing, so i guess now is the time, they will clamp down.

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Postby EADG » Mon, 15 Nov 2010 9:27 pm

Your sentiment is in the basically the right place but your logic is flawed.

Other countries in the world who do not resort to caning, etc. found other, better ways to control their societies.

I'm just sayin....


anneteoh wrote: there were gangs wielding knives, parangs and probably guns who wouldn't think twice about using violence on others and this type of law was enforced to prevent such acts prevailing
Ape Shall Not Kill Ape

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 4:55 pm

EADG wrote:Your sentiment is in the basically the right place but your logic is flawed.

Other countries in the world who do not resort to caning, etc. found other, better ways to control their societies.

I'm just sayin....


anneteoh wrote: there were gangs wielding knives, parangs and probably guns who wouldn't think twice about using violence on others and this type of law was enforced to prevent such acts prevailing


Another example of a black and white logic. The raitonale here is that my feelings do not control the way others behave.
LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system; it being a practice he had admired as an effective deterrent for repeating crimes. Many Brits nowadays moan the loss of cp (corporeal punishment) in Britain where high numbers of innocent people - children, teenagers, fathers, elderly die each year.
If you're aware of the ascending crime rate, the economic inability of the system to maintain criminality and the cost of 'containing' the widespread anti-social behaviour in the UK and the States, your bright ideas for 'controlling society' as quoted above, will be most welcomed.
So spill them out.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 5:02 pm

anneteoh wrote:Another example of a black and white logic. The raitonale here is that my feelings do not control the way others behave.
LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system; it being a practice he had admired as an effective deterrent for repeating crimes. Many Brits nowadays moan the loss of cp (corporeal punishment) in Britain where high numbers of innocent people - children, teenagers, fathers, elderly die each year.
If you're aware of the ascending crime rate, the economic inability of the system to maintain criminality and the cost of 'containing' the widespread anti-social behaviour in the UK and the States, your bright ideas for 'controlling society' as quoted above, will be most welcomed.
So spill them out.


[citation needed]

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 5:21 pm

anneteoh wrote:
Another example of a black and white logic. The raitonale here is that my feelings do not control the way others behave.

Sorry, what does this mean?

LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system;

What does corporeal mean? Is it Singlish?

it being a practice he had admired as an effective deterrent for repeating crimes.

There was no corporal punishment in the UK, by the time the Lee dynasty took over Singapore.


If you're aware of the ascending crime rate, the economic inability of the system to maintain criminality

What in Gods name does this mean?


anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 6:57 pm

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
Another example of a black and white logic. The raitonale here is that my feelings do not control the way others behave.

Sorry, what does this mean?

LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system;

What does corporeal mean? Is it Singlish?

it being a practice he had admired as an effective deterrent for repeating crimes.

There was no corporal punishment in the UK, by the time the Lee dynasty took over Singapore.


If you're aware of the ascending crime rate, the economic inability of the system to maintain criminality

What in Gods name does this mean?



Check your spelling before you start your usual tirade. And check your history as well - sigh, are you really that half-baked? Well, it's not difficult to browse Wiki so make sure you get your facts on LKY right.
Thou salt not use the name of thy god in vain - first commandment. Go back a few posts and read SE to follow the argument.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 7:41 pm

anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
Another example of a black and white logic. The raitonale here is that my feelings do not control the way others behave.

Sorry, what does this mean?

LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system;

What does corporeal mean? Is it Singlish?

it being a practice he had admired as an effective deterrent for repeating crimes.

There was no corporal punishment in the UK, by the time the Lee dynasty took over Singapore.


If you're aware of the ascending crime rate, the economic inability of the system to maintain criminality

What in Gods name does this mean?



Check your spelling before you start your usual tirade. And check your history as well - sigh, are you really that half-baked? Well, it's not difficult to browse Wiki so make sure you get your facts on LKY right.
Thou salt not use the name of thy god in vain - first commandment. Go back a few posts and read SE to follow the argument.



How about replying to the post... rather than attacking me?

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 8:18 pm

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
Another example of a black and white logic. The raitonale here is that my feelings do not control the way others behave.

Sorry, what does this mean?

LKY actually imported corporeal punishment to SG from the British system;

What does corporeal mean? Is it Singlish?

it being a practice he had admired as an effective deterrent for repeating crimes.

There was no corporal punishment in the UK, by the time the Lee dynasty took over Singapore.


If you're aware of the ascending crime rate, the economic inability of the system to maintain criminality

What in Gods name does this mean?



Check your spelling before you start your usual tirade. And check your history as well - sigh, are you really that half-baked? Well, it's not difficult to browse Wiki so make sure you get your facts on LKY right.
Thou shalt not use the name of thy god in vain - first commandment. Go back a few posts and read SE to follow the argument.



How about replying to the post... rather than attacking me?


You know I don't attack you ( or generally attack anyone else unless they ask for it.
My above comments are exactly my reply. I was referring to corporeal punishment not High Coporal. LYK spent his schooldays in Britain and you can read it all in his own words if you browse Wiki.


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