Employment Permit Options for Fresh Graduate?

[andrew22]

Hey guys,

I am an American hoping to move to Singapore and find a job there after graduating from university in May '11. If I do not have a guaranteed job before I move to Singapore, what might be my best option as far as work visa's go? I have noticed that many job listings require either PR or at the very least that you already hold the pertinent work visa.

My qualifications will basically be my degree from a "good" university (top 20 in the states) as an Economics major. I have previously held a student pass, a "Student Work Holiday" pass and, of course, multiple social passes in Singapore.

What would be the best course of action so that I can arrive prepared to seek employment in Singapore? Thanks much for any assistance!

[andrew22]

Whoops...just noticed that there is another sub-forum which would probably be more appropriate for my topic (Visas for foreigners)...is it possible to just move this thread over there?

I might add that I will have been dating a Singaporean PR for 2.5+ years by the time of my arrival in Singapore and we will be considering marriage...not sure if this diversifies or modifies my prospects. Cheers.

[Mad Scientist]

Whoops...just noticed that there is another sub-forum which would probably be more appropriate for my topic (Visas for foreigners)...is it possible to just move this thread over there?

I might add that I will have been dating a Singaporean PR for 2.5+ years by the time of my arrival in Singapore and we will be considering marriage...not sure if this diversifies or modifies my prospects. Cheers.

Nah...here is good.
I will be upfront with you. Now is not a good time. you can see the type of pass that you want or intend to get at www.mom.gov.sg.
Since you are graduating next year, I think your chances are better compared to now as they are many rejection for first time applicant or renewal passes. Alot of rumbling on the ground against Foreign Talent
However if you intend to marry your beaute then that is different. Get married first and stay together prior to arrival to SG as "marriage of convenience" is a ploy for many would be foreigners. You have to prove to ICA that you are not one of them.
There is alot of discussion about this in this forum. Go to the search button under the profile link and type "foreigner marrying Singaporean"
Read and absorb.
Still cannot get what you want, reply to your post and someone will pick up the slack

[andrew22]

Thanks so much for your reply MS.

I know this is a somewhat ancient thread at this point, but I figured there's no reason to start a new one. Now that I have moved to SG, we are considering registering with the ROM. Although we spent some time in the states recently, we were unfortunately not able to marry there as it would have opened an entirely different and perhaps even more complicated can of worms given that she was only on a B2 visa.

I came across a stipulation for foreigners marrying PRs on AngloInfo stating that, "If one person is a Singaporean or Permanent Resident and the spouse-to-be is a foreigner holding a work permit or an ex-work permit holder, check with the Controller of Work Permits, Ministry of Manpower (MOM) that the marriage is permissible." This is probably somewhat obscure, but I wonder if anyone knows whether or not the Work Holiday Pass that I held in 2009 places me in this category? On the face of it, I suppose it would, but WHP seems to be pretty unique. I ask here mainly because I have found it extremely difficult to get through to a live human at the MoM, and their automated menu does not provide for such inquiries either way.

As for our decision to register in SG, if the ICA decides that an American dating a SPR for 2.5 years and visiting her 5 times within that time span (staying in SG for over a year in the process), while completing a full-time degree is somehow anywhere near the realm of 'convenience,' then so be it. Here's to hoping that they review each case extremely carefully.

As always, thanks for any advice. Cheers.

[sundaymorningstaple]

When in doubt, rather than getting bitten in the arse, it's better to write a letter to the MOM asking for permission to marry. They love it when you give them face instead of fæces! They will pull your file, (be sure to give them your FIN number when applying) and determine, along with the other information you provide (like the fact that you have graduated from a top 20 uni in the US, etc, etc.) and will send you a letter either giving (most likely) or denying you permission to marry. If it's not an issue (e.g., not need permission, then they will automatically give you permission - this way takes all the doubts out of the equation. This especially so as you would be a newlywed so would go a long way to eliminating any suspicions of "convenience marriages" as well.

sms

[andrew22]

Appreciate the sound advice, SMS. Sounds like a plan.

[andrew22]

Sent in an enquiry via the MoM website Monday morning, received a call Monday afternoon from a very courteous and well-spoken agent stating that WHP does not affect RoM status. She even asked if I had any other questions! Color me impressed.

Now for the hard part. Obviously we are hoping to live and work together in the same country, and we have chosen Singapore instead of the US. Perhaps this is the tougher road, but we have plenty of reasons, and I've been very intrigued with SG ever since I studied abroad here.

Theoretically, then, it would make sense that I'd apply for PR in an attempt to officially settle ourselves in SG. I've been lurking in these forums for over 2 years now, and am well aware of the severe limitations on this route, as well as foreign immigration to SG in general for those of us who would like to work here (despite those silly 1.9% unemployment and record job openings figures).

However, we'd like to at least give it a shot, as it's been our plan for some time to end up in SG, and the 10,000mi distance game we've been playing for 2+ years is not fun. We are considering, then, applying for my PR soon after RoM'ing, while I am still a "fresh graduate" from a qualifying university, etc, which I would imagine might be viewed differently from a professional with a few years experience simply looking to relocate. I know that the chances are slim to none, but would an application within a couple months of RoM'ing be likely to negatively affect our future situation if it is rejected the first time? Or is it reasonable enough to take a shot?

For the record, my partner is a B Eng holder from NUS (graduation in July, bioengineering faculty), and the application would be, of course, under the assumption that her salary is $3k/mth or greater. I'm a 2%'er ethnicity. If things go according to plan in the short term, I'll be working an internship at a Singapore-listed hedge fund through the fall (pending pass approval). That's about it I guess. Oh, and apologies for another 'chance me' post, but considering the opacity of the whole process...we're just hoping to find some informed advice given our reasonably unique situation. Thanks much.

[Mad Scientist]

We are considering, then, applying for my PR soon after RoM'ing, while I am still a "fresh graduate" from a qualifying university, etc, which I would imagine might be viewed differently from a professional with a few years experience simply looking to relocate. I know that the chances are slim to none, but would an application within a couple months of RoM'ing be likely to negatively affect our future situation if it is rejected the first time? Or is it reasonable enough to take a shot?

Not a good plan. You need to get ROM here then try LTSVP first. Used to be smooth sail under family ties PR application. Not anymore. Look for job , convert LTSVP to EP . Stay approx 2 year then PR ship apply

For the record, my partner is a B Eng holder from NUS (graduation in July, bioengineering faculty), and the application would be, of course, under the assumption that her salary is $3k/mth or greater. I'm a 2%'er ethnicity. If things go according to plan in the short term, I'll be working an internship at a Singapore-listed hedge fund through the fall (pending pass approval). That's about it I guess. Oh, and apologies for another 'chance me' post, but considering the opacity of the whole process...we're just hoping to find some informed advice given our reasonably unique situation. Thanks much.

ICA albeit the Gahmen likes to increase the gene pool of the intelligent applicant. For one due to the low fertility rate esp. among the Chinese which stand a 0.9 only. Both of you has the ideal mould ICA is looking for. The hindsight is on the recent GE . Alot of discontentment on the grounds hence my above reply to you.It used to be about 6 months and you can apply for PR under family ties but now I am not so sure. But hey please do not let us stop you from trying as we only see what is going on now and there are times where it goes against any logic at all.

[andrew22]

MS-- Agreed that giving the PR app a couple of years would be considerably more ideal, and believe me, I'd be more than happy to secure a full-time gig with EP at this point. However, isn't EP somewhere between 'completely impossible' and 'winning the lottery' level of likelihood for foreign fresh grads at the moment as well? It's pretty disconcerting to hear that most employers won't even consider your application without work authorization/PR to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, at this point I'm committed, even if it means a long, arduous, protracted job search...as long as there is at least a slim chance that something will materialize eventually. At least I'll be keeping myself busy with the internship in the mid-term.

It's funny, a 60% share of the votes/47% margin back home would be one hell of a 'people's mandate.' Alas, not in these parts. This was a particularly bleak reduction of the current atmosphere: http://my.news.yahoo.com/stemming-tide- ... 05176.html

[andrew22]

Not a good plan. You need to get ROM here then try LTSVP first. Used to be smooth sail under family ties PR application. Not anymore. Look for job , convert LTSVP to EP . Stay approx 2 year then PR ship apply

Have been looking into the LTSVP route. I noticed that the MoM website has a separate page for the process through which LTSVP holders should apply for WP/S pass/EP/etc. However, with regards to EP, it basically states that EP approval will still be granted solely on the basis of prevailing qualifications (e.g. education, exp. etc.) According to the "employment pass eligibility test" on the MoM website, it of course says that I theoretically qualify for an EP. It's pretty clear, though, that this "test" is not applicable to real life at all. As has been made clear countless times around these parts, now is not the time for fresh grads to be applying for EP's in SG.

Question: Does holding a family ties based LTSVP cast an EP application in a different/more favorable light? It would <i>seem</i> to make sense that SG would want long-term residents (especially younger ones) to secure a source of income that would inevitably be finding its way back into the local economy/'gahmen' coffers. I find it a bit confusing that EP/some S Pass holders can apply for DP's for their significant others, which puts their partners just an LoC away from being able to work in SG themselves, whereas PR's seemingly do not have such an option.

[Mad Scientist]

in SG.

Question: Does holding a family ties based LTSVP cast an EP application in a different/more favorable light? It would <i>seem</i> to make sense that SG would want long-term residents (especially younger ones) to secure a source of income that would inevitably be finding its way back into the local economy/'gahmen' coffers. I find it a bit confusing that EP/some S Pass holders can apply for DP's for their significant others, which puts their partners just an LoC away from being able to work in SG themselves, whereas PR's seemingly do not have such an option.

You are muddying water quite abit. There are two parts that you need to understand MOM is for work pass albeit EP, WP ..........
ICA is for residence and immigration matters.
If you have in principle EP (AIP) you can apply DP for your SPOUSE which in turn he/she can look for job here and convert her DP under LoC. On the hindsight if you lose your EP , your spouse will lose his/hers too.
Sponsorship under Local spouse is possible albeit PR under family ties . If this fail your local spouse can apply LTSVP for you . It can range for 6 months to 5 years . It all depend on ICA.
Once you got LTSVP, look for job and convert to EP .
If you receive PR you can work anywhere and any place in SG as there are no restriction . The PR validity is 5 years. If you stay here , work here and pay your tax here, your PR REP will be renewed without any problems

Both has its pros and cons.There are no assurance that you will get either one

[andrew22]

Thanks MS. Let me clarify--

EP and some S Pass holders have the option of applying for DP and then LoC for their spouses if they wish for them to come here and find a job. I'm aware that this isn't applicable to my case, as my spouse will be PR. I was just using it as an example/means of comparison, since I am confused as to why PRs and citizens don't seem to have such a luxury when wishing to bring their spouse here to live and work, short of sponsoring them for PR, which as of right now is a giant waiting/mystery game.

Indeed, ICA and MoM are two different government entities...one chiefly concerned with immigration, the other with labor. However, I was wondering if MoM, when furnished with an application for EP from a family-ties based LTSVP holder, as opposed to a bog standard foreigner/SVP-holder, would view the former favorably in light of the fact that the LTSVP holder is going to be living here either way, and may as well be working and contributing to the economy (edit: assuming, of course, both applicants have the same credentials...SVP vs LTSVP is the only variable). I'm aware that there are plenty of other criteria that are considered regarding EP applications, but is this likely to be one of them? (note: entirely theoretical scenario, given that LTSVP is, as you say, not assured in the first place)

Perhaps this stipulation seems immaterial, but we're just trying to most accurately weigh all of our options before we decide upon a plan of action. Two years would be a hell of a long time to stay in a foreign country while not working, especially as a fresh graduate. Certainly not too impressive as far as the new in-laws are concerned, either

[Mad Scientist]

Andrew

Food for thought

SINGAPORE: Preliminary estimates show that Singapore's total fertility rate has dropped to a record low of 1.16 last year. This is even lower than the 1.22 in 2009, and well below the replacement rate of 2.1.

http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/do ... 080429.pdf

[andrew22]

Andrew

Food for thought

SINGAPORE: Preliminary estimates show that Singapore's total fertility rate has dropped to a record low of 1.16 last year. This is even lower than the 1.22 in 2009, and well below the replacement rate of 2.1.

[taxico]

my wife obtained singapore Permanent Residency through her own merits and her application had nothing to do with me.

so even if our marriage fails, she can legitimately stay here without any fears of losing any permit/pass.

the recent sunday paper mentioned that inter-ethnic/national marriages (ie, singaporean with a non-singapore born person) are on the rise.

the cover page depicted a beaming singapore bride with her swiss beau, complete with a lovey dovey pose and her engagement ring.

maybe that might work in your favor given that it's tougher to obtain employment as a non singaporean/SPR these days?

whatever the case, good luck and i hope you'll be able to get here and enjoy your stay in singapore! keep us posted!