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Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

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MinorCitizen
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Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

Postby MinorCitizen » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 2:59 am

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Last edited by MinorCitizen on Sun, 10 Oct 2010 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 6:42 am

Wait, cannot write right now. In the middle of discussion. Will reply asap. Sorry
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Re: Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 10:37 am

MinorCitizen wrote:Dear All,


Here is my situation:
1) Born outside of Singapore so I was a Minor Citizen of Singapore by Registration (one of my parents is Singaporean).

OK understood

2) Lived in Singapore for 10 years during my primary to secondary school years so I enjoyed socio-economic benefits and I received a pink IC.

OK understood

3) Left Singapore before 17.5 years old, applied for Exit Permit and posted 75K bond to pursue further studies till age 21.

OK what level college or tertiary; bursary or sponsored, where did you go to study overseas

4) At age 21, I applied for renounciation, and not surprisingly I was denied (unfortunately at that time, I was clueless on the requirements for renounciation which I am clear now).

Did CMPB sent a letter requesting you to comeback and serve. When and where it was sent to?
5) At age 30, I have a desire to visit Singap
ore, but I am unsure of what the penalty would be for someone in my situation, as a minor citizen, since I did not take my oath of allegiance to Singapore by age 22, thus my citizenship was automatically revoked, and I am no longer a citizen of Singapore.

Who revoked your SG Citizenship ? You have dual citizenship or not ?
Your $75K bond forfeited ? By whom Mindef or MFA


I would like to ask the forum experts (example, SMS, MS, and all others. Especially MS who seems to have immense knowledge on unpublished statistics), what is the likelihood of my punishment if I was to return to Singapore to face the music based on previous examples that you know who are in similar situation?

Since I was only a minor citizen who defaulted from 21 years old to 22 years old after which my citizenship was revoked, would I face the harshest punishment of jail time?

Would Singapore offer me an option to serve NS given that I am no longer a citizen?

Of course, the ideal situation is simply a fine, but what is the likelihood of that after Piano's Man incident. I do hope for a lesser judgment due to being a minor citizen.


Reply the questions and I will answer your doubts. Please come clean on your status as I am NOT a mind reader. Anything you can add on please state or else I cannot advise.
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Re: Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

Postby MinorCitizen » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 2:03 pm

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Postby Satoko » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 2:06 pm

Hello MS

The NS law pertaining to NS defaulter was amended in 2006 with a $10k fine n jail because of musician Mel Tan's case. I would like to know , will my kid a NS defaulter who left for university in 2002 without an exit permit prior to the amended law. Will he be jailed beside paying the fine if he decides to return to Singapore. The understanding I was told was the new amended law ONLY applied to NS defaulter wef 2006 and not before. As in my son case he will be fined $5k w/o jail. Am I right on this ? :???:

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Postby MinorCitizen » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 2:47 pm

Hi Satoko,

I would appreciate if you can start a new discussion with your questions and not hijack this post and questions that pertains to cases of minor citizens with dual citizenship by registration.

Hi Forum Experts,

I need all the answers I can get and I hope that we can stay on topic. Please do reply to my initial questions at the beginning of the post. I really appreciate your time and any advice you can offer.

Thank you for your understanding and help!

Kind regards,
Minor Citizen

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Re: Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 4:56 pm

MinorCitizen wrote:Hi MS,

Thank you for your reply!

Yes, I have had dual citizenship till age 21/22, one by birth in Hong Kong following my mom's nationality, and one with Singapore by registration as a minor citizen following my Dad's nationality. My parent's original intention was to give me a chance to choose at age 21.

I went to the United States for a Bachelor's degree on my own, not sponsored by the government. I never had a Singapore passport, but we applied for an exit permit and posted the bond for $75K. We renewed the exit permit every year until my graduation which concided with my 21st birthday.

At age 21 upon graduation, I submited all the necessary paperwork to the Singapore Embassy in US including my pink IC to renounce my citizenship.


You are 30 right now, yes ? The amended law is in 2006 which you would be only 26.
How and when did you post your $75K bond. My guess is 1996 ? Am I right on this ?Back then the bond is not this much? Are you pulling my leg on this?
In 1996, the registration of EP is at 16.5 yrs of age.
Who instruct you to post this bond CMPB or Mindef. ?
When you post this bond , you will place the $75K under Banker Guarrantee, yes ? What name is written on the banker's guarrantee?
Who forfeit your bond ?
You would have received an accompanying letter with the BG, SAF 33 if my memory serves me right, to states the condition of your bond.
What does it states there? This is important.
Please let me know on the above questions.
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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 5:13 pm

Satoko wrote:Hello MS

The NS law pertaining to NS defaulter was amended in 2006 with a $10k fine n jail because of musician Mel Tan's case. I would like to know , will my kid a NS defaulter who left for university in 2002 without an exit permit prior to the amended law. Will he be jailed beside paying the fine if he decides to return to Singapore. The understanding I was told was the new amended law ONLY applied to NS defaulter wef 2006 and not before. As in my son case he will be fined $5k w/o jail. Am I right on this ? :???:


This Exit Permit issues dated all the way back to the 80s.
Since 1990s , all males are not allowed to complete their tertiary education prior to serving their NS. Full Stop. This includes local and overseas education.
So if your child went for tertiary knowing full facts that it is already against the law in 2001. What do you think the consequences will be ?
To go for tertiary , you still need to post bond back then. It used to be $25K only in the 80s. It gradually increase till 1990s. S$75 K is the minimum OR the minimum income of either parent that earns more than $75K a year based on IRA assessment if you wish your son to complete his college or A level and return to serve the NS after that.This was the amendment in 2006
It does not matter if it is after or later. The most important part is the date of prosecution and current amended law that pertain to this issue.
Who told you no jail time? Can he be sure on this? Really really sure ??
The rule of thumb is simple. Below 21/22 ; fine $5K no jail time
22/25 $10K One month jail time. . 25/30 $10K three months jail time.
The jail time only takes place for a number of reasons. I cannot elaborate this as too much details involved.How old is your son now ?
No, you are dead WRONG on this.
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Postby Satoko » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 6:26 pm

Hey MinorCitizen

Did I hijack your post ?? Hey man, this is a forum, it is NOT for you ONLY.
BTW pertaining your problems, it is a waste of time for MS . don't come on to this forum to give us your shit and bull. Don't take Singapore as an insurance coverage, just as Hongkie did after receiving Canadian citizenship and flee back to Hong Kong. Want to have the best of both world right ? Dream on !! :mad:

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Postby Satoko » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 7:40 pm

Hello MS
Thank for the infor n appreciate yr time.

OMG, I'm wrong got the wrong infor. My son is 24 n guess he will never be allowed to step on Singapore soil. May I ask what is meant by G2,G6 or G7 in your other thread. :roll:

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Re: Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

Postby MinorCitizen » Sat, 09 Oct 2010 10:15 pm

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 10 Oct 2010 1:43 am

Satoko wrote:Hello MS
Thank for the infor n appreciate yr time.

OMG, I'm wrong got the wrong infor. My son is 24 n guess he will never be allowed to step on Singapore soil.


Basically your son has committed several offences.

1. Leaving Singapore without a valid exit permit which was 16 then b4 2006.
2. Not registering for pre NS when he turned 16.5 yrs of age
3. Not serving NS when he turns NS which will consider him as a NS defaulter
4. Not returning to SG after the age of 22.

Basically you ignored CMPB requirement to ask him to return to Singapore. As you did not change his residential address for your child to overseas ones, CMPB can go after you if they consider that you are harbouring him if he did return one day or they have grounds to proof that you are harbouring him. The onus to prosecute is on them. If found guilty you can be fine $10K.

If he returns to face the music, call CMPB first prior arrival. This will help to remove any major drama at the airport.
Surrender yourself at CMPB. If he is prepared to serve NS inform them.
Fine most definitely, jail time quite possibly but shorter time as it all depends on the prosecutor to press for deterrent sentences for others to the judge. Serve the NS and he is a free man. Do this b4 30 as this is the cap for NS age. After that jail time is for sure plus the fine but no NS.
Or do not return at all even on transit
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Re: Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 10 Oct 2010 1:55 am

MinorCitizen wrote:Thank you MS!

Back then, my parents posted a bond of $75K. There is no reason to inflate the amount.

After my dad double checked the letter, it is actually CMPB who instructed us to post the bond and they were the ones who forfeited the bond.

The condition is I need to return to Singapore upon the completion of my education (there are strict conditions that I do not change my course of study and often I have to produce proof of grades that I am doing well). My dad renewed my exit permit once a year for four years. The violation of the exit permit occured when I did not return, and my bond is forfeited.

I am asking my parents to mail me all the documents so if there are further details you need, please let me know.

Thank you very much!


This is new to me which is very puzzling as I am dead sure on this. Anyway...

You only answered part of my questions that post prior to this. Please answer it

1. Mindef thru CMPB approved your tertiary education by requesting your parents to post the$75K bond. ?
2. Were you pre accepted to the tertiary education and showed this proof to CMPB?
3. May I know what course did you take ?
4. Is your family still living here or overseas ?
5. Have they given up their SG citizenship or PR in the case of your mom?

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Re: Minor Citizen Unable to Renounce - Possible Penalty Now?

Postby MinorCitizen » Sun, 10 Oct 2010 4:00 am

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 10 Oct 2010 5:01 am

I'm not able to help here. MS has waaaayyy more experience in the NS issue that I do. My forte is really HR. My knowledge in NS is primarily due to my own research over the years as the parent of a Dual Citizenship son born here. :wink:

MS is the expert and one would do well to listen to him and provide as much info as possible so that he can tap he extensive knowledge and network in order to advise or assist.

sms


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