Shocking Murder at Woodlands

[carlsum1986]

I hate it when it's the norm among some guys to keep barracking SG unfairly. What I was talking about was with regards to the reporting of murders. Just that. It's definitely untrue that there's censorship of such news. Totally untrue.

hmmm looking at this line....reporting of murders and censorship of such news,arent they in the sub category of press freedom....

[anneteoh]

I hate it when it's the norm among some guys to keep barracking SG unfairly. What I was talking about was with regards to the reporting of murders. Just that. It's definitely untrue that there's censorship of such news. Totally untrue.

hmmm looking at this line....reporting of murders and censorship of such news,arent they in the sub category of press freedom....

My point was there's no censorship for reporting of crimes. I was there. I witnessed it and accoding to the initial few posters here, it was too openly displayed, so where's the censorship?

[sundaymorningstaple]

I believe censorship is the allowing of information that the government wants to allow (be that a reduction in facts or an escalation of facts in order to steer or reverse popular opinion). I would assumed in the 70's censorship would be used in reverse to post the most goriest of crimes and lay the blame on the secret societies of that time in order to turn popular opinion to the gahmen's POV. Hence, I tend to believe almost all news is subjected to "guidelines" e.g., the oversight by a statutory board to ensure that the news conforms to what the gahmen want the public to see in order to "guide" popular opinion. When a newsman ventures outside of those guidelines they are censured rather quickly.

[morenangpinay]

What freedom...?

please refer to this :

Shadrake, author of Once a Jolly Hangman-Singapore Justice in the Dock, is investigated for "criminal defamation" and "contempt of court".

to be questioned in a secret location for 2 days without access to his lawyer is not freedom.the government has also said they have the right to tell bookshops not to stock the book.

reporters without borders ranked singapore 133rd out of 175 countries in their world press freedom index 2009

the MDA also requires foreign media not to discuss local issues..inorder to get a license in singapore.


The media, atleast the local media, feels a sense of obligation to the country's leadership..there is no freedom there.Media is supposed to be the watchdog of the society.

[ksl]

Actually shock and horror is kind of traditional Chinese, their faith being more inclined to Buddhism.
Though like Mainland China when i was there in 1992, i was taken to a place no foreigners are allowed, a museum, where the bodies of those executed are on display.

The posters at that time for playing with fireworks for example actually displayed real live cases of injuries. I think the problem with censorship is that we become tuned in with life as is, and anything outside the comfort zone would be shocking.

So okay I was shocked to see a picture of a murdered woman on the front page of the newspaper, however its about norms more than censorship.

I mean what if we saw an ex con in the market square, being pelted with rotten eggs , used to happen, so its what we adapt to that becomes the normal illusion, I say illusion " " because life is cynical cases.

I have no time for any government, religion or form of authority, even though its there, i adapt to it, if it bothered me so much i would just leave the best way i could.

Many places are much worse than Singapore, that's for sure! All governments have their own reasons for suppressing

[anneteoh]

Actually shock and horror is kind of traditional Chinese, their faith being more inclined to Buddhism.
Though like Mainland China when i was there in 1992, i was taken to a place no foreigners are allowed, a museum, where the bodies of those executed are on display.

The posters at that time for playing with fireworks for example actually displayed real live cases of injuries. I think the problem with censorship is that we become tuned in with life as is, and anything outside the comfort zone would be shocking.

So okay I was shocked to see a picture of a murdered woman on the front page of the newspaper, however its about norms more than censorship.

Exactly. It surprises me that some people use freedom of press as a way to impose their own versions of either the truth without paying scant attention to the truth from the other side of the coin or, they simply lap up the accusations with sheer slander - as I found it to be in the few posts back.

The Tian An Men shooting was indeed, most tragic. I watched it intensely and we had continuous debate from insiders, journalists, friends and Chinese students in the UK. It's too deep and complex to discuss what happened but to me, it's everybody's mistake. Still, it was wrong to kill. Regarding the mistakes, it doesn't take much for us to see such parrallels in the world today.

I was in SG in 1999-2002 when I read about those gruesome murder cases, not in the 70s. I was shocked to find such cases in SG - as they were freely reported, not packaged to pull wool over anyone's eyes.

I agree with your point of view ksl. It was on my mind to compare the way some people abuse their freedom in the UK. I looked at exPM Tony Blair's face when he spoke about the cancellation of his book signing , due to some hoodlums throwing rotten eggs and shoes at him. He, of course, took it all in good sport and a show of bravado; but really, those eyes were deeply saddened. It hurt me to see a PM of the UK being treated with such disrespect. How can a country stand up to take on the challenges of the world if their PMs are constantly being pulled apart?

I mean what if we saw an ex con in the market square, being pelted with rotten eggs , used to happen, so its what we adapt to that becomes the normal illusion, I say illusion " " because life is cynical cases.

It takes a superman to be an individual and to lead his country nowadays as there's much pressure from the political fronts of all others, be they within the country or without. Do we need leaders - if we need to have leaders, let's appreciate the humungously difficult jobs they have to do. Obviously, both the led and the leader want the best for their countries; it fails badly when they are cracking on the rocks they stand on.
You got a point right there ksl. Chinese people generally love their leaders, (though many do blame their leaders too, of course - there' ll always be those too ready to blame esp. if they be poorer by a pound ) but on the whole they will not humiliate their leaders unless things get so bad, they rise in revolt. From this perspective, they are shocked with any culture that is permissive in the appaling treatment of its leaders.

I have no time for any government, religion or form of authority, even though its there, i adapt to it, if it bothered me so much i would just leave the best way i could.

Many places are much worse than Singapore, that's for sure! All governments have their own reasons for suppressing

I have pondered over this incessant complaint which could amount to slander, propaganda or sympathy for the defeated. Indeed, it seems to pop up when I least expect it, as in this thread. But if it's sympathy, it's so rudely and aggressively expressed to those who have a different opinion, that it becomes obvious that no good can come out of such people who behave thence so with their words.

Indeed, SG has done many noble things and has consistently striven to give a decent standard of living to everyone, sharing its successes with the people and foreign workers alike - through the generous bonuses given, for instance.

It's harsh but true that if they're unhappy with what they see as restrictions, they should really live in places that suit their need for greater freedom ( as if there's really such a thing without responsibilty, anyway.)

However, there's a hugh difference between suppression and the defence of one's integrity. Freedom of speech is as subjective as what one wants it to be.

Returning to the main topic, have they found who the murderer is? Does anyone believe in capital punishment?
Just two days ago, a young SG student of medicine was dragged 100 metres down Belsize road, London, by a black saloon car. The hit and run driver couldn't be seen as his windows were tainted black. People heard the driver braking suddenly and stopped but then carried on leaving the victim to die on the street with her belogings scatterd about. The police are using cctv to locate the driver. Such a shock and so sad for her parents. What kind of a person would just hit and run?

[anneteoh]

I believe censorship is the allowing of information that the government wants to allow (be that a reduction in facts or an escalation of facts in order to steer or reverse popular opinion). I would assumed in the 70's censorship would be used in reverse to post the most goriest of crimes and lay the blame on the secret societies of that time in order to turn popular opinion to the gahmen's POV. Hence, I tend to believe almost all news is subjected to "guidelines" e.g., the oversight by a statutory board to ensure that the news conforms to what the gahmen want the public to see in order to "guide" popular opinion. When a newsman ventures outside of those guidelines they are censured rather quickly.

I really don't think the the SG govt is as devious as that. Secret societies were a real challenge to law and order and they would have no interest in the power of the word for that matter. SM LKY is a barrister with a double first class honours and his problem is to fight those who slander him in a civil court. Judging by the way the ST is written, I reckon there's vetting which is done to ensure, sticking to the point instead of conjecturing. Vetting does make the paper sound like a schooljournal but perhaps they want to play safe.
My understanding is that the gory crimes are written by S'porean ST reporters who mainly live in a safe environment and who are genuinely shocked to witness such violence in their society.
Some reporters write to make a scoop - we see the harm done in such cheap journalisms in the UK. Some are ignorant and arrogant too so they deserve their come uppance. They really think their glasses fit for all.
Take the example of the Chinese govt assigning guides for foreign students or visitors to the country. To the Westerners, they felt they were being follwed and spied on, to the Chinese govt, they were responsible for the safety of the foreign visitors. Though it was rare, visitors had been attacked and China did not want that to happen. Also, in some areas, the locals had never seen any Westerners and they screamed in fright when they came across one. The govt might also want to look after its own people.
It is what I meant when I once told JR8 that there are things about China only Chinese can understand. The Chinese has a continuous and homogenous Confucianist culture, inspite of the revolutions. Chinese men have the caring of a mother and rule like patriachs. That's why the ST is produced like it is. I personally think there should be room for independent debates and issues that are not politically inclined. Due to editorial vetting, it does sound like a guided voice paper. Is it kiasu or playing safe? In fact, the Chinese word for govt is 'zhengfu' which has a literal meaning of Confucianism and duty. Many young Sporeans of this generation are balanced bilinguals so they have two referencing systems.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The hit and run driver couldn't be seen as his windows were tainted black. People heard the driver braking suddenly and stopped but then carried on leaving the victim dying on the street with her belogings scatterd about. The police are using cctv to locate the driver. Such a shock and so sad for her parents. What kind of a person would just hit and run?

Dr Silviu Ionescu, charge d'affaires of the Romanian embassy?

[anneteoh]

Actually shock and horror is kind of traditional Chinese, their faith being more inclined to Buddhism.
Though like Mainland China when i was there in 1992, i was taken to a place no foreigners are allowed, a museum, where the bodies of those executed are on display.

The posters at that time for playing with fireworks for example actually displayed real live cases of injuries. I think the problem with censorship is that we become tuned in with life as is, and anything outside the comfort zone would be shocking.

So okay I was shocked to see a picture of a murdered woman on the front page of the newspaper, however its about norms more than censorship.

Exactly. It surprises me that some people use freedom of press as a way to impose their own versions of either the truth without paying scant attention to the truth from the other side of the coin or, they simply lap up the accusations with sheer slander - as I found it to be in the few posts back.

The Tian An Men shooting was indeed, most tragic. I watched it intensely and we had continuous debate from insiders, journalists, friends and Chinese students in the UK. It's too deep and complex to discuss what happened but to me, it's everybody's mistake. Still, it was wrong to kill. Regarding the mistakes, it doesn't take much for us to see such parrallels in the world today.

I was in SG in 1999-2002 when I read about those gruesome murder cases, not in the 70s. I was shocked to find such cases in SG - as they were freely reported, not packaged to pull wool over anyone's eyes.

I agree with your point of view ksl. It was on my mind to compare the way some people abuse their freedom in the UK. I looked at exPM Tony Blair's face when he spoke about the cancellation of his book signing , due to some hoodlums throwing rotten eggs and shoes at him. He, of course, took it all in good sport and a show of bravado; but really, those eyes were deeply saddened. It hurt me to see a PM of the UK being treated with such disrespect. How can a country stand up to take on the challenges of the world if their PMs are constantly being pulled apart?

I mean what if we saw an ex con in the market square, being pelted with rotten eggs , used to happen, so its what we adapt to that becomes the normal illusion, I say illusion " " because life is cynical cases.

It takes a superman to be an individual and to lead his country nowadays as there's much pressure from the political fronts of all others, be they within the country or without. Do we need leaders - if we need to have leaders, let's appreciate the humungously difficult jobs they have to do. Obviously, both the led and the leader want the best for their countries; it fails badly when they are cracking on the rock they stand on.
You got a point right there ksl. Chinese people generally love their leaders, (though many do blame their leaders too, of course - there' ll always be those too ready to blame esp. if they be poorer by a pound ) but on the whole they will not humiliate their leaders unless things get so bad, they rise in revolt. From this perspective, they are shocked with the culture that is permissive in the appaling treatment of their leaders.

I have no time for any government, religion or form of authority, even though its there, i adapt to it, if it bothered me so much i would just leave the best way i could.

Many places are much worse than Singapore, that's for sure! All governments have their own reasons for suppressing

I have pondered over this incessant complaint which could amount to slander, propaganda or sympathy for the defeated. Indeed, it seems to pop up when I least expect it, as in this thread. But if it's sympathy, it's so rudely and aggressively expressed to those who have a different opinion, that it becomes obvious that no good can come out of such people who behave thence so with their words.

Indeed, SG has done many noble things and has consistently striven to give a decent standard of living to everyone, sharing its successes with the people and foreign workers alike - through the generous bonuses given, for instance.

It's harsh but true that if they're unhappy with what they see as restrictions, they should really live in places that suit their need for greater freedom ( as if there's really such a thing without responsibilty, anyway.)

However, there's a hugh difference between suppression and the defence of one's integrity. Freedom of speech is as subjective as what one wants it to be.

Returning to the main topic, have they found who the murderer is? Does anyone believe in capital punishment?
Just two days ago, a young SG student of medicine was dragged 100 metres down Belsize road by a black saloon car. The hit and run driver couldn't be seen as his windows were tainted black. People heard the driver braking suddenly and stopped but then carried on leaving the victim dying on the street with her belogings scatterd about. The police are using cctv to locate the driver. Such a shock and so sad for her parents. What kind of a person would just hit and run?

[ksl]

The hit and run driver couldn't be seen as his windows were tainted black. People heard the driver braking suddenly and stopped but then carried on leaving the victim dying on the street with her belogings scatterd about. The police are using cctv to locate the driver. Such a shock and so sad for her parents. What kind of a person would just hit and run?

Dr Silviu Ionescu, charge d'affaires of the Romanian embassy?

I have actually just heard from my Wife, that A Singaporean in UK has also been killed in UK by a hit and run bus driver

[anneteoh]

The best news I watched on tv was about how the whole population of Taiwan took out to the streets to demonstrate their strength for a woman victim murdered. They brought the city to a standstill and refused to budge until the murderer was caught. That should be the case in every city - in most places people do nothing and shrug, with the cliche, "It happens."

[ksl]

The best news I watched on tv was about how the whole population of Taiwan took out to the streets to demonstrate their strength for a woman victim murdered. They brought the city to a standstill and refused to budge until the murderer was caught. That should be the case in every city - in most places people do nothing and shrug, with the cliche, "It happens."

Though its a shame they cannot get it togther for the people. Taiwan is a good place to live, I had 4 happy years with my inlaws.

[anneteoh]

The best news I watched on tv was about how the whole population of Taiwan took out to the streets to demonstrate their strength for a woman victim murdered. They brought the city to a standstill and refused to budge until the murderer was caught. That should be the case in every city - in most places people do nothing and shrug, with the cliche, "It happens."

Though its a shame they cannot get it togther for the people. Taiwan is a good place to live, I had 4 happy years with my inlaws.

What do you mean by that? I thought it's an economy that's doing well. They 've built an amazing tallest building in the world after Petronas , and a formidable one that stands in the face of the typhoon to boot! Is it a relatively crime free country?

Yes, I gather you're Chinese related. Welcome to this ancient and diverse community, kls. I guess your wife is Hokkien?

[ksl]

The best news I watched on tv was about how the whole population of Taiwan took out to the streets to demonstrate their strength for a woman victim murdered. They brought the city to a standstill and refused to budge until the murderer was caught. That should be the case in every city - in most places people do nothing and shrug, with the cliche, "It happens."

Though its a shame they cannot get it together for the people. Taiwan is a good place to live, I had 4 happy years with my inlaws.

What do you mean by that? I thought it's an economy that's doing well. They 've built an amazing tallest building in the world after Petronas , and a formidable one that stands in the face of the typhoon to boot! Is it a relatively crime free country?

Yes, I gather you're Chinese related. Welcome to this ancient and diverse community, kls. I guess your wife is Hokkien?

My wife is half Hakka and half Chinese though born in Taiwan
You can ask any Taiwanese and they will tell you the same, politics are not stable, it ruins the Country, far too much in fighting. Robbery is normally with parang like in Malaysia, so it can be quite disturbing, when a woman loses her hand at the wrist for her handbag. Taiwan is like many other Countries, you have to know the areas and be prepared for the worst, if you enter those areas, though the majority of times, you will be okay, it depends on how you behave.

Taiwan is a terrific Country to live in, I love it, of course there are many gangsters around, though they very rarely bother the sober westerner. Get drunk and you may find yourself relieved of your wallet.

Though I recall in mainland china I was drunk on my first night there, trying to keep up with a New Zealand woman on whisky chasers, I couldn't find my way back to the campus and sat down by a tree and fell asleep, with 3k of US$ in my pocket. In the morning I was surround by the local population trying to hide my from the local police, back in 92 and I was taken into someones home for coffee, all the locals came too ha! ha! it was quite funny as they pulled on my hairy chest and the kids called me big nose! The winter nights was sat outside campus with the locals drinking baijo

Of course the Country should be much better off than it is, but corruption between the parties and accusations in the house is quite a hot potatoe, and fisty fights are very common in Taiwans politics..

My wife who is Taiwanese first, and very different from mainland Chinese. I lived in Beijing for a year and have very close contacts from both Countries. I followed the developments in 2000 while living with inlaws, I was also caught up in some of the demonstrations as a sightseer.

I have deleted much of my post as I really don't wish to get involved in politics, I like to read about them and learn from them all, because all have something to offer, though I'm brainwashed not to take sides. I saw too much political infighting between my mother Welsh & Father who was half British and half Irish godbless them I have always helped people no matter what, because i remain neutral on those kind of issues.

I have read the autobiography of a Yogi. Sri yogananda which gave me peace in my heart and soul, its so not easy to deal with so many flashes of past incidents if you do not work with it.

One walks around in a state in a daze for many years without realising that the world we live in, is history repeating itself in many ways.

Its easy to get lost, or lose one's way if you wander aimlessly in life. Making peace with my guardian angle who watches over me and often sits on my right shoulder, was quite difficult to accept, until I faced the beast head on in my dreams, the shaman confronted the beast and we work together from now on.

Chen Shui-Bian: You should read the book.

In Taiwan's 2000 presidential election, the Kuomintang government was defeated, for the first time after 55 years in power, by the pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party. Chen Shui-bian's election victory has significantly changed and complicated the political and strategic scenarios across the Taiwan Strait.

What do you mean by that? I thought it's an economy that's doing well. They 've built an amazing tallest building in the world after Petronas , and a formidable one that stands in the face of the typhoon to boot! Is it a relatively crime free country?

Then you should see the buildings they have done with recycled plastic bottles, that are earthquake proof. Taiwan is leading the way in recycling and they plan to build more buildings from recycled waste The place is thriving with innovation and leads the world still in technology terms, though the infrastructur is okay, the pedestrian footpaths are totally a shambles climbing over scooters and such. Very difficult for family's with prams in Taipei, once away from the centre.

[anneteoh]

I have some Hakka friends. They must be Chinese for we always discuss mainland politics when I go to their family dinners.
Thanks for sharing your life experiences and comments. Most interesting and amazing too.
Your wife's right - there was a mistake when the Evening Standard first reported the news about the SG student killed by a hit and run driver. It's now verified that that was a bus driver and the SG student was studying in Cambridge. What a tragedy.
London buses seem to have killed quite a few students and children. In 2007, a promising Polish student at the Catholic school was killed by a bus. The news sent shockwaves round the school. It happened when the boy, Chris, and his friend rushed in front of the bus they alighted to cross the road but was knocked down by another bus overtaking from behind. Chris was under the bus - he would have survived if the driver had not switched off the engine which then compressed the chassis and lowered it to crush Chris lying below. It sounded so painful, like the news of Sept 11, we were all in a daze for several days.
A year later, at another Catholic school a colleague's son was shot point blank outside his house in Lewisham. That was so shocking it was surreal -such violence surely is something in films. There was already frequent killing on the streets across London and all over the country, usually among youths in different gangs bringing a culture of violence to the streets. From 2006 - 2009, the spate of youth killings increased. It was incredulous - the 90s seemed innocent compared to 2000s. We soon heard about deaths and murders almost every week - the news presenters simply announced them as if it were normal and habitual. It seems to have become an acceptable norm. Is society numbed by such frequency of violence? Shocking.
But when the police began to stop and search, the liberals protested... it had to take so many deaths, and not before many prominent youths had fallen before the govt took any notice. The craziness definitely went out of hand. Perhaps it's better now.

Regarding the Taiwanese parliament. Thanks for reminding me of the fist fighting and shoe throwing - I must have watched that happening a couple of times. It was not even funny. Wonder what was said. But, come to think of it, I'd rather that, however embarrassing, than deaths and killings.

The story of Chang Xue Liang, the nephew of Chiang Kai Shek, who kidnapped his uncle to force a unified China between the communists and Chiang for a few months, but was then captured by Chiang and exiled in Taiwan, is unique and romantic. It's a lovely tale, like Chinese opera, because no one was killed. The other endearing event for me was how the last emperor, Puyi, became a botanist though the earlier period of his life under the Japs was really harrowing. Still, it was a happier ending - to be alive and free with plants and nature, I would gladly have that rather than endless trouble with an empire.

I was in Beijing twice in 1999. I complained that the route was longer than it should have been and the cabbie apologised he didn't know the route very well and reduced the meter fare. I enjoyed talking to Beijingers most of whom I found honest and kind hearted.

Yeah, I had to return to your post and reread the many interesting things you talked about. Most things in my life happened spontaneosuly, or rather intuitively - like the way I was in India. I read the autobiograpghy of the Yogi too - I remember esp the part when he talked about always asking his guru when he would be enlightened and how one day, he just went into a cave and was hit by the light... more of this to talk about later.