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Citizenship issues for children of Ex-Singaporean

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OkLah
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Citizenship issues for children of Ex-Singaporean

Postby OkLah » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 8:10 am

Dear Mad Scientist,

I am a father of four boys, aged 10, 7, 3 and 1. Our whole family emigrated from Singapore six years ago. My first two boys were born in Singapore and hence were citizens by birth but have since acquired foreign citizenship. The third and fourth were born overseas and I did not register them as Singapore citizens. I have renounced my Singapore citizenship two years while my wife gave up her Singapore PR status last year.

I read on another thread that you had successfully helped a family apply for renunciation of Singapore citizenship for their minor children. Would you be so kind as to share the procedure with me? FYI, neither I nor my wife have any immediate family members living in Singapore anymore. We just feel that waiting till the two boys are 21 is just too long. Our two eldest boys' Singapore citizenship status are the only remaining link that we as a family have with Singapore. hence, we just want to make a clean break with Singapore and move forward with our lives without worrying about any future ramifications.

Thank you.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 8:53 am

MS will guide you through the procedures, but if you have taken to time to research these various threads, you will already know the procedure. Unfortunately, while you have already left the country and made a clean break, per se, the government will still hold out that the boys (the eldest two) will have to NS. However, as all have been removed before the age of 11/13 you will still have to go through the numbers with the exit permits and letter informing them of renunciation. They will still NOT be allowed to renounce until they are 21 even though they will be waived from doing NS if all the protocols are followed exactly.

It's unfortunate that the gahmen here (CMPB) have this hang-up, but you obviously already know this and that's probably why you immigrated in the first place.

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Postby OkLah » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 9:34 am

SMS, yes I am aware of the quasi-official procedure, letter of intent to renounce + application for deferment pending renunciation, don't renew Singapore passport, do not apply for and obtain NRIC yada yada. What I am trying to get at is the procedure to avoid having to jump through all those hoops by applying to renounce their citizenship now. From what MS has described, it does look like it is possible, albeit decided on a case-by-case basis. I hope MS can shed some light on the criteria used to decide. I hope that our situation of not having any immediate family members left in Singapore would be a strong plus point.

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Re: Citizenship issues for children of Ex-Singaporean

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 9:57 am

Not enough info to go about

OkLah wrote:Dear Mad Scientist,

I am a father of four boys, aged 10, 7, 3 and 1. Our whole family emigrated from Singapore six years ago. My first two boys were born in Singapore and hence were citizens by birth but have since acquired foreign citizenship.
When did your family left Sg and when do your sons acquire foreign Citizenship
Have they travel back to SG from the day they left till now using SG PP
Where did you migrate to


The third and fourth were born overseas and I did not register them as Singapore citizens.
Ok understood.
I have renounced my Singapore citizenship two years while my wife gave up her Singapore PR status last year.
Ok Understood

I read on another thread that you had successfully helped a family apply for renunciation of Singapore citizenship for their minor children.
Different family has different set of "problems" All cases are treated case by case. I lost count who I helped so.... concentrate on yourself only

Would you be so kind as to share the procedure with me? FYI, neither I nor my wife have any immediate family members living in Singapore anymore.
Ok Understood

We just feel that waiting till the two boys are 21 is just too long. Our two eldest boys' Singapore citizenship status are the only remaining link that we as a family have with Singapore. hence, we just want to make a clean break with Singapore and move forward with our lives without worrying about any future ramifications.

I believe both of you have withdrawn your CPF monies. Reply to me the above question and I will guide from there

Thank you.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby OkLah » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:14 am

MS,

1. We left Singapore in 2004.
2. They have travelled back using Singapore passports in 2007 and 2008.
3. We emigrated to Australia.
4. Our two Singapore-born sons acquired the citizenship of my wife's country by registration before they were one year old. This fact was not declared to ICA.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:37 am

OkLah wrote:MS,

1. We left Singapore in 2004.
2. They have travelled back using Singapore passports in 2007 and 2008.
Why did you travel with SG PP on those two dates? How long for on each trip. ? Have they not gotten OZ PP by then ?
3. We emigrated to Australia.
4. Our two Singapore-born sons acquired the citizenship of my wife's country by registration before they were one year old. This fact was not declared to ICA.
This is not an issue as a child can hold dual citizenship up till 21
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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:50 am

This is what I would be incline to do.

1. Declare intention to renounce SG citizenship NOW to ICA.
2. Write a cover letter with photocopies of all the families member with foreign citizenship. You DO NOT INCLUDE YOUR TWO YOUNGEST ONEs as they do not have to know. i.e mom and dad and your two eldest boys.
3. Photocopies all the pages of your boys SG PP for future reference.
4. Attached schooling enrolment doc. from current school.
5. Get all the foreign Citizenships and PPs photocopied and notorise by Public Notary.
6. Write in the cover letter that your two sons has gained OZ citizenship since One. Your family has all gained foreign citizenship. You want to relinquish your two sons SG Citizenship. Kids has been schooling since .....in OZ?Left SG permanent in 2004.Have not use or benefit from SG socio economic and travel only twice back to SG due to ......
Blah blah blah...... any mitigating factors you can odd on.
7. Send the boys' SG PPs and all the photocopied docs via snail mail "DHL" to Citizen Advise Bureau ICA Kallang. Attention to Mrs SY Pang or Mr Steve Chew.
Do it now... your intention is to make them accept your son renounciation NOW not at 21? Please remember once accepted , they can enter SG under social visit but they cannot work nor gained PR or SC at all.
They will reply to you . Please remember to provide forwarding address
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Postby OkLah » Wed, 22 Sep 2010 6:13 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
OkLah wrote:MS,

1. We left Singapore in 2004.
2. They have travelled back using Singapore passports in 2007 and 2008.
Why did you travel with SG PP on those two dates? How long for on each trip. ? Have they not gotten OZ PP by then ?
3. We emigrated to Australia.
4. Our two Singapore-born sons acquired the citizenship of my wife's country by registration before they were one year old. This fact was not declared to ICA.
This is not an issue as a child can hold dual citizenship up till 21


They already had Aust Passports then. They left Australia with their Australian passports but entered Singapore with their Singapore ones. I guess I was very uninformed on citizenship matters at that time. I was told that one must always enter the country of which one is a citizen with that country's passport. Both trips lasted for a total duration of three days each.

Are they going to use this against us?

Thanks for the info, MS. Very much appreciated.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 22 Sep 2010 6:49 am

OkLah wrote:
They already had Aust Passports then. They left Australia with their Australian passports but entered Singapore with their Singapore ones. I guess I was very uninformed on citizenship matters at that time. I was told that one must always enter the country of which one is a citizen with that country's passport. Both trips lasted for a total duration of three days each.

Are they going to use this against us?

Under the Singapore Constitution chap 126 of the Immigration Act, a child under the age of 21 can hold dual citizenship and PP up until 21 of age. Be it you declare or not it will not hold any bearing to the child. The grey areas come into picture when the child is a male and when he turns 13 and you as parents decided to renounce his citizenship.
Hence these issues will be for or against him and treated case by case by CMPB when the child comes into the age of 13. So..... I usually place myself at the side of caution.
If my pea brain memory serves me right, you can go ahead and renounce as long as he is under 13 or 11(not sure on exact date). Moreover if your child has been away since young , it will not hold and enjoy any socio economic of SG.
For your short stay it will not hold any bearing to your application but inform ICA on your cover letter that they did travel to SG on SG PP on these two dates due to .......
Please use Oz PP the next time. Those children who hold dual citizenship can travel on both PP entry and exit to SG up till the age of 21. I have this documented for another family, a reply from ICA to that effect.
For some reasons which beyond my brain juice that they wanted your two boys to go with the guideline i.e EP , application to renounce blah blah blah.... at least they already have your documents with them, hence the process is expedited speedily.
Please keep all comms and doc with ICA, MINDEF, CMPB in a safe place

Good Luck


Thanks for the info, MS. Very much appreciated.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby OkLah » Wed, 22 Sep 2010 7:39 am

MS, do I also need to cc a copy of the letter + docs to CMPB/MINDEF? Or do we only need ton inform CMPB/MINDEF once ICA has approved the boys' renunciation?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 22 Sep 2010 7:45 am

OkLah wrote:MS, do I also need to cc a copy of the letter + docs to CMPB/MINDEF? Or do we only need ton inform CMPB/MINDEF once ICA has approved the boys' renunciation?


ICA first, as your son age cannot be captured by CMPB as both of them are below 13. 13 the magic number for EP.
If ICA approves, you have no need to forward to CMPB or Mindef. CMPB and Mindef are for pre-enlistess(13) till you are 40 or 50
ICA overwrites in your case. To be safe please make a copy for all docs that you send to ICA.
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